PFD AOK?

[Don12324]

On top of things

I keep on top of my boat maintance and my safety equipment within. But the thing that I like to stay on top of most is the water. Now my boat has flotation under the seats and in the bow and I confess that I too have some of the same characteristics (more in the stern than the bow) but that not withstanding, my vote is for ALWAYS. The only way you will ever see the inside of my boat is with a PFD. Call me paranoid. Call me chicken or anything else you like. But I'm reasonable certain that I and my family will be around to listen. Because we'll be on top of the water, not under it.

 

[Ken Frehm]

What if you have to survive in the water.?..:{

How long could you last in the water? No matter how STRONG a swimmer you are, or think you are, you may have to survive in the water for a long time... Do you know how? , ..Use as little energy as possible and practice the skill.. ... Inhale..cross arms and hang motionless... push up with as little energy as necessary with the arms and legs... hang more.. take a breath... do it again....and again...conserve you movement and motions.. energy will last longer...

 

[Scott]

Government should have no authority

I am with those that fear that our government is already trespassing too much into our personal responsibilities. Do I wear PFD's? All the time when it's warranted. I buy the best that are available that are perfectly suited to whatever activity we're doing. When we're sailing in flat water on a warm inland lake where land is no more than a short swim, I don't worry about myself or my kids without PFD's on. Circumstances are too variable for legislation to get involved in trying to make everyone comply with "one rule fits all".In New Jersey, kids that are 13 or under must be wearing a PFD if the boat is underway, but if the boat is anchored they don't have to be wearing one, even if they are swimming. This is a sensible rule that we can live with and not complain, but I would hate to see legislation require more.If we were invited to join you on your boat and you said that we must wear a PFD, we would happily put one on and say thank you for inviting us onto your boat! Complying with the rules of the boat's captain is one thing, I just don't want state or federal government meddling in these private affairs. In the end, they'll even take boating away from us if we give them free reign.Many in this forum have valid reasons for always wearing a PFD ... hypothermia, cold water, rough seas, single handing, etc. It's perfectly understandable to have internal guidelines, policies and rules for your boat. I just don't want the government looking over my shoulder with more authority than I can live with. Too much personal freedom can be lost if we give in to the lie that Uncle is just looking out for our safety.Do I sound extremely paranoid? I hope not, I gladly pay taxes so our government can provide the services we need; but when government starts intruding into our personal freedoms and responsibilities, I get ornery!

 

[Tom Riley]

sospended

Since we got SOSpenders we wear them because we think they are cool. We also have everyone wearing them at the start of races because we never can tell if the committee boat demands it or not.

 

[WAYNE MOORE]

I'LL LIVE YOU MAY NOT

AS A FATHER OF FOUR KIDS I WEAR ONE BECAUSE I WANT TO GO HOME AT NIGHT BUT I ALSO MAKE THEM WEAR THEM. I'M ALSO A SWIFT WATER RESCUE TECHNICIAN FOR THE LOCAL FIRE DEPARTMENT AND I'VE HAD TO PULL WAY TO MANY BODIES OUT THAT THOUGHT IT WAS SHALLOW OR THEY WERE GOOD SWIMMERS. THE HARDEST PART IS OUT OF ALL THE WATER CALLS I GO ON ITS ALMOST ALWAYS A BODY RECOVERY NOT A RESCUE. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT I CANT REMEMBER EVEN ONE THAT THE VICTIM WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY IF THEY HAD ON ANY TYPE OF PFD. I DO SUPPORT LEGISLATION ON MANDATORY PFD USE BUT THE FIRST STEP HAS TO BE FUNDING OF ENFORCEMENT FOR EXISTING LAWS.THERE IS NOTHING MORE BOTHERSOME THAN WATCHING A BOAT LOAD OF PEOPLE GO BY KIDS INCLUDED AND THERE IS NO PFD IN SIGHT AND THEY KNOW THAT THEY WONT GET CAUGHT BECAUSE THERE IS NO ONE THERE TO ENFORCE IT. SO TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS SEEN IT FIRST HAND PLEASE WEAR PFD AND HAVE THROWABLE RESCUE DIVICES HANDY.OTHERWISE IT MIGHT BE YOUR COLD DEAD BODY THAT I MAY HAVE TO PULL OUT NEXT TIME.

 

[Bob Early]

PFD's most of the time when moving

I wear my PFD most of the time. And I encourage all crew to do the same. I think I am leading by example. The only issue with that, is we only have two inflatable PFD's, and the rest are the orange ones.I choose to mandate the children (under 13 ) do the same when out of the cabin. However, sometimes their parents don't agree and let them "get away" without putting them on.I think the USCG statistic that something like 85% of all drownings is by people who do not have a PFD on, is a rather chilling stat.Bob Earlys/y Second Nature

 

[Jentine]

Stay aboard!!!!!

The general idea is to stay on the boat. If you accomplish that, the rest is moot. I think that life jackets (the name used when we weren't so politically correct) are necessary when planning to go overboard either by accident or intentionally. When sailing in rough weather, it is necessary to stay on the boat. A life jacket is of no assistance. A harness and tether is a better tool and should be employed when the conditions deteriorate.AND the government should mind their own business. Should I decide to not wear a life jacket or harness, that is my business. The government has attempted to legislate social change in every corner of society with little or no success. All motorists do not wear a seat belt; all motorcyclists do not wear a helmet (they are required in less than 50% of the states); not all airline passengers wear a seatbelt; and boaters should not be held to a higher standard because we have a lesser voice. Health and safety are personal concerns and NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS.Jim

 

[Kevin McKee]

sponge

I am considered an overly cautious sailor although I have never worn a pfd while underway. With over 2000 offshore miles I belive a safty harness and jackline are more far safe than any floatation device. The rules on my boat are: Any crew member on the fore deck, while underway must have a saftey harness attached to a Jack line. Any crew member alone at the helm, while underway must have an attached saftey harness, even in mild weather. Any time away from a dock, a thowable pfd with a stobe is mounted with in reach of the helm, even at anchor (My closet call happened while at anchor, in a slight current). Any time that I am out side of the cabin while underway I am harnessed. The excepions are when sailing with in a quarter mile of shore (lakes and ICW). I feel I must include that most of my experience has been in big water and life jackets are always kept in a sail locker with in reach of the helmsman.

 

[Ron]

Wearing PFDs

When we board our O'Day 28, my wife and I put on our West Marine auto-inflatable vests. They are not bulky and are as comfortable as a pair of suspendors. It is now a habit - but based on good sense as we sail in Maine where it is 67 deg in the water all summer. The grandchildren are required to always wear theirs and guests have the option. We also have a MOB pole and lifesling on the stern plus cockpit cushions. I sail alone at times and its a good comfort feeling.Our boat did not have jacklines and we are equipping it this spring as well as harness snap-ons at the pedestal base, mast base and each side of the companionway.I learned that we should have got the auto-inflatables equipped with the harness because if you don't there is no practical way to add it later.-Ron s/v Wild Flower - Maine

 

[Bob Camarena]

Depends

1. Always while single-handing.2. Always in SF Bay3. In heavy weather.4. When there are children on board so they aren;t the only ones wearing PFDs.We have two West Marine automatic self-inflatable vests that we use.

 

[Ryan]

Are PFDs required for kids?

Are there laws in CA requiring children below a certain age to wear PFDs?

 

[Andy]

Harness for kids

Ryan: Looked into that one-only safety harness is required for children. Makes sense to us, we sail along the same rules mentioned earlier wrt jacklines and harnesses.PFDs are nearby but not mandatory. Exception is if we feel weather is degrading, kids wear em no matter what.

 

[Rick Webb]

Children ARE Required to Wear a PFD in California

Basically what this says is if a state does not have their own regulation or if you are outside of a states regulatory jurisdiction the Coast Guard requires a child who is not yet thirteen to wear a PFD on any vessel which is underwayR 081842Z JUL 02 ZUI ASN-A00189000019FM COMDT COGARD WASHINGTON DC//G-O//TO ALCOASTBTUNCLAS //N16750//ALCOAST 337/02COMDTNOTE 16750SUBJ ENFORCEMENT POLICY FOR NEW REGULATIONS REQUIRING CERTAINCHILDREN ABOARD RECREATIONAL VESSELS TO WEAR PERSONAL FLOTATIONDEVICES1. THE COAST GUARD PUBLISHED NEW INTERIM REGULATIONS IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER [67 FR 42488] ON 24 JUNE 2002 AND THEY WILL BECOMEEFFECTIVE ON 23 DECEMBER 2002. THE REGULATIONS ESTABLISH A FEDERALREQUIREMENT FOR CHILDREN UNDER 13 YEARS OLD ABOARD RECREATIONALVESSELS TO WEAR COAST GUARD-APPROVED PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICES(PFDS), WHILE THE VESSEL IS UNDER WAY, UNLESS THE CHILDREN AREBELOW DECKS OR IN AN ENCLOSED CABIN. THE REGULATIONS APPLY ONWATERS SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE UNITED STATES, ON THEWATERS OF STATES WITH NO REQUIREMENTS FOR CHILDREN TO WEAR PFDS,AND ON THE HIGH SEAS BEYOND THE TERRITORIAL SEAS FOR RECREATIONALVESSELS OWNED IN THE UNITED STATES.2. THE REGULATIONS ALSO PROVIDE FOR ADOPTING ANY STATE REQUIREMENTFOR CHILDREN TO WEAR PFDS AS THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENT WITHIN THATSTATE. TO ENSURE THAT THE RECREATIONAL BOATING PUBLIC HAS ADEQUATENOTICE OF THE NEW FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS, WE ARE ADVISINGRECREATIONAL VESSEL OPERATORS OF THE NEW FEDERAL REQUIREMENTSDURING THE 2002 BOATING SEASON, BEFORE THE RULE GOES INTO EFFECT.ENFORCEMENT WILL COMMENCE ON 1 JANUARY 2003. IN ADDITION, BOARDINGOFFICERS SHOULD ENCOURAGE RECREATIONAL VESSEL OPERATORS TO HAVECHILDREN ON THEIR VESSELS WEAR PFDS NOW FOR SAFETY AND TO COMPLYWITH APPLICABLE STATE REQUIREMENTS.3. ENFORCEMENT OPTIONS, ONCE EFFECTIVE, FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE NEWFEDERAL REQUIREMENTS INCLUDE, ISSUING WRITTEN WARNINGS OR NOTICESOF DISCREPANCY, AT THE DISCRETION OF THE BOARDING OFFICER, TO THEOPERATOR OF RECREATIONAL VESSELS UNDER WAY WITH CHILDREN ABOARDWHO ARE NOT WEARING PFDS, IN VIOLATION OF THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENT.BY LAW, A VIOLATION OF FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS ON CARRIAGE OR USE OFSAFETY EQUIPMENT ON RECREATIONAL VESSELS COULD BE SUBJECT TO AMAXIMUM CIVIL PENALTY OF 1,100 DOLLARS FOR EACH VIOLATION, WITH ARECOMMENDED PENALTY RANGING FROM 50 DOLLARS TO 250 DOLLARS FOR EACHVIOLATION. THIS RANGE OF PENALTY IS IN KEEPING WITH THE RANGE OFPENALTY FOR NOT HAVING A PFD READILY ACCESSIBLE.4. LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ARE AUTHORIZED AND ENCOURAGED TOMAINTAIN LOCAL LIAISON WITH STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TOENSURE ACCURATE AND TIMELY KNOWLEDGE OF THE STATE REQUIREMENTSFOR CHILDREN WEARING PFDS ON WATERS UNDER THEIR JURISDICTION.5. FOLLOWING ARE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS TO PROVIDEGUIDANCE ON INTERPRETATION AND ENFORCEMENT OF THE FEDERALREGULATIONS AND TO CLARIFY THE MEANING OF TERMS AND APPLICATIONOF THE FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS IN SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES A. QUESTION. WHAT IS BELOW DECKS? DOES IT INCLUDE THE SPACE BELOWA FLYING BRIDGE DECK? ANSWER. BELOW DECKS IS BELOW THE MAIN DECK. A SPACE BELOW AFLYING BRIDGE DECK DOES NOT QUALIFY. HOWEVER, SUCH A SPACE MAY BEAN ENCLOSED CABIN. B. QUESTION. WHAT IS AN ENCLOSED CABIN? DOES PLASTIC OR CANVASSIDING QUALIFY AS AN ENCLOSED CABIN? ANSWER. AN ENCLOSED CABIN IS A SPACE THAT IS ENCLOSED BY SOLIDBULKHEAD, WINDOWS OR DOORS. A SPACE WITH BUTTON DOWN OR TIED DOWNPLASTIC OR CANVAS COVERINGS OVER RAILS OR BRACES DOES NOT QUALIFYAS AN ENCLOSED CABIN. C. QUESTION. IF AN ENCLOSED CABIN ON A VESSEL HAS A SLIDINGDOOR(S) AS THE AFTER BULKHEAD, IS IT STILL AN ENCLOSED CABIN WITHTHE SLIDING DOOR(S) LOCKED IN THE OPEN POSITION? ANSWER. YES, IT IS STILL AN ENCLOSED CABIN EVEN WITH THEDOOR(S) LOCKED OPEN. D. QUESTION. DO WE ENFORCE ALL OF A STATE'S REQUIREMENTS FORCHILDREN TO WEAR PFDS ON RECREATIONAL VESSELS AS THE FEDERALREQUIREMENT ON WATERS UNDER OUR JURISDICTION WITHIN THAT STATE? ANSWER. YES, INCLUDING AGE OF CHILD, LENGTH OF VESSEL OR OTHERSTATE REQUIREMENT. E. QUESTION. DOES THE FEDERAL AGE REQUIREMENT REVERT TO UNDER 13BEYOND 3 MILES OUT, (THE TERRITORIAL WATERS)? ANSWER. THE FEDERAL AGE REQUIREMENT REVERTS TO UNDER 13SEAWARD OF STATE WATERS. THE LIMIT OF STATE WATERS MAY VARY,HOWEVER, BY STATE. FOR EXAMPLE, FLORIDA EXERCISES STATEJURISDICTION OUT TO 3 MILES ON THE ATLANTIC COAST, BUT OUT TO 9MILES OFF THE GULF COAST. THE DISTRICT LEGAL OFFICE SHOULD BECONSULTED TO CONFIRM THE EXTENT OF STATE JURISDICTION FOR EACHSTATE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. F. QUESTION. DO THE REGULATIONS APPLY TO CHARTERED VESSELS? ANSWER. NO. THE REGULATIONS APPLY ONLY TO RECREATIONALVESSELS, WHETHER OWNED OR RENTED FOR RECREATIONAL USE. VESSELSCARRYING PASSENGERS FOR HIRE, SUCH AS SIX-PACKS, HEAD BOATS, PARTYBOATS, ETC., ARE COMMERCIAL VESSELS AND ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THISREGULATION. G. QUESTION. CAN A STATE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER TAKE ACTIONREGARDING THE FEDERAL REGULATION? ANSWER. ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER CAN SUBMIT A CG 4100 FORM(REPORT OF BOARDING) THROUGH AN APPROPRIATE COAST GUARD UNIT TO ACOAST GUARD HEARING OFFICER TO PROCESS A CIVIL PENALTY VIOLATION. H. QUESTION. HOW DO WE VERIFY THE AGE OF CHILDREN TO DETERMINEWHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A VIOLATION OF THE PFD WEARING REQUIREMENT? ANSWER. IN MOST CASES, THE VERBAL CLAIM OF THE CHILD WILLSUFFICE. IF THE BOARDING OFFICER HAS REASONABLE GROUNDS TO DOUBTTHE VERBAL CLAIM, IDENTIFICATION MAY BE SOUGHT. IN THE ABSENCE OFIDENTIFICATION, AND WHERE REASONABLE GROUNDS EXIST TO SUSPECT AVIOLATION, ENFORCEMENT ACTION SHOULD BE TAKEN, WITH AMPLIFYINGINFORMATION NOTED ON THE CG-4100S FORM.6. THIS GUIDANCE WILL BE REFLECTED IN A FUTURE REVISION TO THEMARITIME LAW ENFORCEMENT MANUAL, COMDTINST M16247.1 (SERIES).7. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS CONCERNING THE PHASED-INENFORCEMENT POLICY OR INTERPRETATION OF THE REGULATIONS, PLEASECONTACT CARLTON PERRY (G-OPB-1) AT 202-267-0979, VANN BURGESS(OPB-2) AT 202-267-6717, CWO TRACY ALLEN (G-OPL) AT 202-267-2563,OR LCDR RHONDA FLEMING-MAKELL (G-OPL) AT 202-267-2341.8. INTERNET RELEASE AUTHORIZED.9. RELEASED BY RADM KENNETH T. VENUTO, ACTING ASSISTANT COMMANDANTFOR OPERATIONS.BTNNNN

 

[Ray Bowles]

"Draggin the line"

I sail a C22, usually single handed and always in the biggest wind I can find on my little chunk of the Columbia River. I always wear my inflatable vest and on the rougher days I drag a 75 foot line with a 1/2 gal jug on the end. Probably couldn't get this old body over to it before it passed by but it makes me feel better.Ask me after I miss it and it could be a different answer, but at least I'll float.

 

[kingprawn]

inflatables

I've read that a lot of people use the inflatable PFD's, but I'm not too sure about them. I've seen how much maintenance we do on them in the navy, and I know I wouldn't want to go through that with personal equipment. Plus, if I ever fell into something rough, I don't think I would want to rely on plastic and air to keep me up. It's just an opinion though.

 

[Mark Wieber]

Crew or guests?

In spirited weather, anybody that goes forward of the dodger wears a Life Jacket. I always put on my foul weather gear and life Jacket well before I even beguin to think about reefing the main. I do not want to get stuck dealing with some "shit happens" scenario and not have time to get into my gear. "Crew" are people I expect to help with the operation of the boat, and they gear up when I do. I am less strict with "guests" as long as the weather is mild and they stay in the cockpit or cabin. In San Francisco Bay, going in the water is serious buisness. In 4 or 5 minutes a swimmer can be too tired to climb up the stern ladder. Early use of life jackets and a solid MOB plan are not really options. Even in a C36.

 

[Tony Gore]

Better safe and alive

I always wear a PFD - autoinflation type for the last 10 years. I learnt to sail at school, 38 years ago where they were compulsory. We sailed then in flooded gravel pits where people swimming against advice had been drowned in minutes. These were the old bulky type of lifejacket in little dinghies.I even put my PFD on when working on the boat in dock sometimes (when the tide is in). Our sailing club has it as a rule that members should wear "adequate personal buyoancy or suitable harness and lifelines ... in sailing events organised by the club". We strongly recommend people to wear them at all time on the water. We have had a number of near fatalities of people falling out of tenders e.g. when transferring to their boat on a mooring and being unable to get aboard their boat. The mud around here is treacherous and claims the lives of holidaymakers who venture down at low tide. A tragic case of a 6 year old drowned in the mud a few years ago led to a public appeal and we now have a rescue hovercraft.Ireland recently introduced a law requiring all children under 16 to wear lifejackets at all times. If anyone is in Dublin, I can recommend the Viking Tour - this is on a DUKW - an amphibious vehicle that tours the streets and then the canals - you will have to wear a lifejacket before the vehicle enters the water.Interestingly, they also limit the engine power (around 5hp I think) that children under 16 can control.The debate over state inteference and personal freedoms is an interesting one. In Europe, the UK is one of the few countries where you do not need any form of qualification to take out a boat. However, because of the culture of caution and responsibility, there is an increasing takeup of voluntary courses and we have a very good safety record.Finally, for those who only decide to put lifejackets on when the wind increases - a quick cautionary tale. I sail a MacGregor 26M. Last summer, just after I got her, I was sailing less than a mile off shore when I went about. At precisely this moment, a sudden gust hit us with a 2-3x increase in wind speed AND a shift of 90 degrees. This had us pinned over to probably only about 45 degrees until someone was able to free the mainsail. (By way of contrast, the bigger keel boats in the club about half a mile away were also caught and ended up with their rails under water). This happened on a fairly calm evening - wind was around 10 knots prior to this gust. In that 5 seconds, it would have been easy for one of the crew to have panicked and gone overboard.Sailing is unpredictable. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but there is a corollary - foresight. Most accidents happen not when one thing goes wrong, but when more than one thing goes wrong. In my little example, despite sailing these waters for thirty odd years on and off, I have never known the combination of a 2-3x gust and a 90 degree shift, let alone at the precise second we went about. Thankfully, other than confirming my wife's fears about boats (she cannot see that in fact this was a one off incident and the 26M coped much better than all the bigger boats), all that happened was another notch on the post of experience.Foresight tells me to assume that one day, out of the blue, even in calm water with people around, something could happen that puts me in the water unconscious. Could someone spot me, get to me, get me out, and start rescuscitation in well under 5 minutes? That is what it would take to survive without brain damage. An autoinflation lifejacket, whilst not perfect is better than nothing. If conscious, they can be inflated manually if the autoinflation happened to fail.PS I'll bet Ellen MacArthur wears inflation at all times. I gather from a friend from Chicago who was over recently that you did not hear much about her over there, but pretty much every Brit and every Frenchman knows of her. I went down to see her arrive back in Falmouth after her record breaking trip singlehanded around the world (an average of something like 15.9 knots for over 26,000 miles in 71 days). That B&Q boat is awesome - a 75 foot trimaran with a 100 foot mast. The mast was higher than the buildings and the decks of a big cruise ship being refitted in port. And she is something like 5 foot 3 inches.

 

[Tony Gore]

PPS

I forgot - I do not allow anyone to go to sea on my boat without a lifejacket. It is my boat, and my responsibility as skipper. I simply would not want anything on my conscience that I could have done more to prevent an accident being worse than it could have been.And if that makes me a kill-joy, then don't come sailing with me. I intent, but can never guarantee 100%, to come back safe and sound. After all, I can control the people on the boat, but not command the sea.

 

[Mike4116]

Testimonial

The week of March 7 my family and I chartered a boat in Key West. The FIRST day out we were involved in catching a nice size mackerel; the boat swung into a jibe and I took the boom upside my inattentive head. Luckily it was at the end of the sheet and I didn't get the full effect or I would have gone into the drink unconcious. As it was I got knocked to the deck and my bell was rung but good. I did not have on a PFD but I sure will in the future and did for the rest of the charter as did all of my family.

 

[Warren M.]

Glad to see...

... the number of people who wear a PFD (of any type) whenever they sail is increasing. I feel certain that this will result in the number of boat related drowings decreasing....It should also be a signal to the makers of PFDs that the more comfortable and wearable a PFD is, the more people will use them.