Three or four years ago, I did what has turned out to be the worst job I ever took on with my boat, I replace all the head hoses...alone. I consulted with the Head Mistress and learned about Sealand Technologies Odorsafe brand guaranteed non-permeable hoses. They cost in excess of $8/foot at the time but I was told not to count the cost but instead to consider the comfort of life without permeated hoses. By the end of the second year, they were again permeated. This year, unable to further tolerate the smell, I called the folks at AER Supply where I had purchased the hoses and they told me that Odorsafe had proven not to be odor safe. He has offered to replace the hoses but before I take on that job again, I wanted to ask if anyone has found a better way. The Hunter 31 has the unfortunate configuration causing both the flush line and the pump-out line to run downhill from the holding tank thus trapping the contents in the hoses. Because of this design characteristic, the AER Supply guy said I will never escape permeation no matter what I use unless, perhaps, I use PCV piping. I have been looking into that possibility but doubt if PCV could be made to navigate the labrynths between the tank and commode/deck.
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Fwiw, Sealand puts a 5 yr warranty on their hose
That doesn't necessarily mean they won't permeate or that you'll have to replace 'em...but at least you won't have to pay for the hose again. The best way I know to prevent--or at least retard--permeation is, don't leave sewage sitting in it. Before the boat will sit, flush at least a couple of quarts of clean fresh water through 'em.Follow with a cupful of white vinegar flushed ALL the way through to the tank. Vinegar reduces the pH level in the hose which slows down bacterial activity. If you have enough clearance above the tank (5"), relocate your pumpout fitting to the to the top of the tank, with a pickup tube inside the tank. That'll eliminate standing waste in that line. Or, if there's no other way, let's find a better location for the tank. Just Hunter put it where it is doesn't mean it's the best place or even a good one. Send me an email and let's examine all your options. It's bad enough to have to do this job again, but let's see what we can do to make sure it's the LAST time you'll have to.
That doesn't necessarily mean they won't permeate or that you'll have to replace 'em...but at least you won't have to pay for the hose again. The best way I know to prevent--or at least retard--permeation is, don't leave sewage sitting in it. Before the boat will sit, flush at least a couple of quarts of clean fresh water through 'em.Follow with a cupful of white vinegar flushed ALL the way through to the tank. Vinegar reduces the pH level in the hose which slows down bacterial activity. If you have enough clearance above the tank (5"), relocate your pumpout fitting to the to the top of the tank, with a pickup tube inside the tank. That'll eliminate standing waste in that line. Or, if there's no other way, let's find a better location for the tank. Just Hunter put it where it is doesn't mean it's the best place or even a good one. Send me an email and let's examine all your options. It's bad enough to have to do this job again, but let's see what we can do to make sure it's the LAST time you'll have to.
Warranty....
From my experiences with anything in the boating industry, if you don't have a receipt, then you don't have a warranty. Now who here that has bought a hose kept the receipt? Now the bigger question, how can you prove that the receipt is for the hose that is permeated? Would the cost of shipping the hose to the manufacture and the wait time offset the cost of just buying a new hose? I think it's good that they offer a warranty but lets get real. Nobody ever returns it.
From my experiences with anything in the boating industry, if you don't have a receipt, then you don't have a warranty. Now who here that has bought a hose kept the receipt? Now the bigger question, how can you prove that the receipt is for the hose that is permeated? Would the cost of shipping the hose to the manufacture and the wait time offset the cost of just buying a new hose? I think it's good that they offer a warranty but lets get real. Nobody ever returns it.
Tank location
I don't believe can be changed. Hunter puts the heads near the companionway for easy access on the newer boats midsized keel boats. The bad side to this is that the only place to hold the tank is in the stern between the bulkhead and the hull and that is a long hose leading to it. What I've found to work the best is to do as Peggie says and flush with fresh water before letting the boat sit. Making sure you pump all the stuff through is key. Because the hose is so long (14 feet on my boat) it takes a lot of pumps. If it's number two, I pump about 10 times with water and then another 15 times on the dry pump (minimum 15 times...I usually do it until I hear a different sound indicating that the hose is empty). I think it's also a key to pump fast and don't allow any pause between the wet and dry pumps. If you pause to you will allow the water to drain back into the low parts of the hose and you will loose your water wall being pumped through by air. Instead you will be pumping air over the water.
I don't believe can be changed. Hunter puts the heads near the companionway for easy access on the newer boats midsized keel boats. The bad side to this is that the only place to hold the tank is in the stern between the bulkhead and the hull and that is a long hose leading to it. What I've found to work the best is to do as Peggie says and flush with fresh water before letting the boat sit. Making sure you pump all the stuff through is key. Because the hose is so long (14 feet on my boat) it takes a lot of pumps. If it's number two, I pump about 10 times with water and then another 15 times on the dry pump (minimum 15 times...I usually do it until I hear a different sound indicating that the hose is empty). I think it's also a key to pump fast and don't allow any pause between the wet and dry pumps. If you pause to you will allow the water to drain back into the low parts of the hose and you will loose your water wall being pumped through by air. Instead you will be pumping air over the water.
Not necessary to return it Franklin...
Even if he didn't use a credit card, AER has a record of the transaction showing that he bought the hose, which covers the receipt, and all he has to do is cut off a short smelly piece that has the Sealand logo on it to show that it has permeated. I suppose that next you'll claim he has to figure out how to prove that piece came off HIS boat.
Even if he didn't use a credit card, AER has a record of the transaction showing that he bought the hose, which covers the receipt, and all he has to do is cut off a short smelly piece that has the Sealand logo on it to show that it has permeated. I suppose that next you'll claim he has to figure out how to prove that piece came off HIS boat.
Over 10 years on Shields 101 on a Hunter 31.
Doug: We had our hoses changed over 10 years ago on our Hunter 31. We used Shields 101 hose. We have not had any problem with the hoses on this boat. Use the proper chemicals and be sure to flush the lines out at the end of each weekend.
Doug: We had our hoses changed over 10 years ago on our Hunter 31. We used Shields 101 hose. We have not had any problem with the hoses on this boat. Use the proper chemicals and be sure to flush the lines out at the end of each weekend.
pvc
search the archives either the h31 or h34 for some one who used houshold pvc pipe . this may be an option for you.
search the archives either the h31 or h34 for some one who used houshold pvc pipe . this may be an option for you.
PVC plumbing
I replaced the entire system in my 35.5, except the actual head. Used rigid PVC for all the plumbing and a new 30 gallon poly holding tank. I had to replace my aluminum 12 year old tank before it leaked. yuk! I also moved the pump out location to the top of the tank as Peggie suggests. I changed the vent line from 5/8" to 1". This makes an easy way to flush the tank with a fresh water hose from time to time. I figure if this job has to be done, I'm only going to do it once, and never have to deal with it again. Odors are now only a bad memory.
I replaced the entire system in my 35.5, except the actual head. Used rigid PVC for all the plumbing and a new 30 gallon poly holding tank. I had to replace my aluminum 12 year old tank before it leaked. yuk! I also moved the pump out location to the top of the tank as Peggie suggests. I changed the vent line from 5/8" to 1". This makes an easy way to flush the tank with a fresh water hose from time to time. I figure if this job has to be done, I'm only going to do it once, and never have to deal with it again. Odors are now only a bad memory.
PVC rules
I replaced most of the hose in my '85 H31 with PVC several years ago and it continues to odorless. It was tricky, as I had to fabricate several tortuous angles. In the whole mess, I used only a few feet of Shields hose. The whole process is in the archives on this forum. There is enough room to get the PVC through the chases. I spent less than had I done the job with hose. Tim
I replaced most of the hose in my '85 H31 with PVC several years ago and it continues to odorless. It was tricky, as I had to fabricate several tortuous angles. In the whole mess, I used only a few feet of Shields hose. The whole process is in the archives on this forum. There is enough room to get the PVC through the chases. I spent less than had I done the job with hose. Tim
I put an in-line shutoff valve
at the exit tube from the tank. Open valve and pump out, rinse with fresh and pump out, then close valve to minimize waste in hoses down river from tank. I still have overboard discharge thru hull with manual pump. The dock pump out is teed in between the inline value and the overboard hose. I can open thru hull and with upstream inline value closed, I can pump some seawater "backward" thru the hoses to the deck discharge, and keep the hoses clear of waste. And when legal, after discharging the tank, I can pour a bucket of seawater into the the deck pumpout and with the tank valve closed, rinse out/ pump out the hose contents.
at the exit tube from the tank. Open valve and pump out, rinse with fresh and pump out, then close valve to minimize waste in hoses down river from tank. I still have overboard discharge thru hull with manual pump. The dock pump out is teed in between the inline value and the overboard hose. I can open thru hull and with upstream inline value closed, I can pump some seawater "backward" thru the hoses to the deck discharge, and keep the hoses clear of waste. And when legal, after discharging the tank, I can pour a bucket of seawater into the the deck pumpout and with the tank valve closed, rinse out/ pump out the hose contents.
Tim, do you recall...
Tim... Do you recall when you posted your PVC procedures? I was unable to find the item in the archives. Thank you.
Tim... Do you recall when you posted your PVC procedures? I was unable to find the item in the archives. Thank you.
I Posted a Photo Forum On This
Did it this year and very happy with the install. http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73279220273&fno=17
Did it this year and very happy with the install. http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73279220273&fno=17
reference to posting on sanitation hose
The posting was March 1, 2004, "sanitation hose replacement."
The posting was March 1, 2004, "sanitation hose replacement."
Response to Patrick L.
Since you have no Y valve, and therefore no way to "lock" it, do you think you might get hassled by some inspection authority?
Since you have no Y valve, and therefore no way to "lock" it, do you think you might get hassled by some inspection authority?
It doesn't get better tha PVC
Sanitation hose is marketed for people who have more money than brains. I've done 8-9 boats in PVC and never had a clog or problem. Sealand makes adaptors to transition from PVC to hose. Short hoses are required at the connections to fixtures and thru hull fittings. Shop Home Depot instead or West Marine
Sanitation hose is marketed for people who have more money than brains. I've done 8-9 boats in PVC and never had a clog or problem. Sealand makes adaptors to transition from PVC to hose. Short hoses are required at the connections to fixtures and thru hull fittings. Shop Home Depot instead or West Marine
To: Tim Op't Holt
The thru hull shut off fitting on my boat can be locked with a small padlock, if not just remove handle on the thru hull shut off fitting.
The thru hull shut off fitting on my boat can be locked with a small padlock, if not just remove handle on the thru hull shut off fitting.
Thank you to all who responded...
As a result of your comments and advice, we have decided to go forward with a PVC solution. Wish us luck!
As a result of your comments and advice, we have decided to go forward with a PVC solution. Wish us luck!
Hey Doug!
Did you start your PVC project yet? I just replaced the head on my 31 and wanted to tackle the hoses, but it was too much for that trip. I'm going replace my hoses with PVC also, so let me know if you need help and/or how your project is going. I'm on "G" Dock at Orleans Trail, Where are you on Stockton ?
Did you start your PVC project yet? I just replaced the head on my 31 and wanted to tackle the hoses, but it was too much for that trip. I'm going replace my hoses with PVC also, so let me know if you need help and/or how your project is going. I'm on "G" Dock at Orleans Trail, Where are you on Stockton ?
Note to Patrick
Looked at your photos of the PVC replacement with interest, I've got the same job ahead of me either this winter during layup - or in the spring - boat smells so bad during hot days that it is unbearable. PVC looks the way to go. Just a couple questions - 1)did you run PVC all the way up to the deck pump out before transitioning or did you go with sanitation hose on the verticle runs and just used PVC on the horizontals? 2) how hard would this job be for 1 person? My boatyard is quite a distance and I would have trouble recruiting any help.
Looked at your photos of the PVC replacement with interest, I've got the same job ahead of me either this winter during layup - or in the spring - boat smells so bad during hot days that it is unbearable. PVC looks the way to go. Just a couple questions - 1)did you run PVC all the way up to the deck pump out before transitioning or did you go with sanitation hose on the verticle runs and just used PVC on the horizontals? 2) how hard would this job be for 1 person? My boatyard is quite a distance and I would have trouble recruiting any help.
Reply to Ken
As for now I just used PVC on the horizontals runs where the raw stuff just sits. Did the work during sailing season this year, when we had a week of rain here in New England. I am planning to continue the rest of the work during layup this winter. For me the job went fairly smooth by myself. I have worked with PVC on many home projects before, just remember to cut, fit and mark all pieces before gluing. As for your unbearable smell, have you also checked for trapped water between your hull and cabin linner? That a whole other problem with these H 31's.
As for now I just used PVC on the horizontals runs where the raw stuff just sits. Did the work during sailing season this year, when we had a week of rain here in New England. I am planning to continue the rest of the work during layup this winter. For me the job went fairly smooth by myself. I have worked with PVC on many home projects before, just remember to cut, fit and mark all pieces before gluing. As for your unbearable smell, have you also checked for trapped water between your hull and cabin linner? That a whole other problem with these H 31's.
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