Performance cruiser? We currently own a Beneteau first 235 and are looking to make a step up. Wife went aboard a Catalina 30 and she has surfed the web relentlessly looking at boats! Hey a wife that wants a bigger boat is not a bad thing! We daysail/overnight on Ray Hubbard outside Dallas TX. Our basic requirements are $30K or under, PHRF 171 or lower. Privacy is not as big issue, we have 1 child and are not confined to the boat for long periods. The cockpit is important, wheel steering seems to provide more cockpit room, and Captain Travis seems to like the wheel. Bimini a must! Often when we sail, the cabin is too hot to be comfortable, good cabin ventilation is nice. We like the swim platforms. That puts us in the early ‘90’s 28ft to late ‘70’s 31+ ft range. We have become familiar with what’s available locally and welcome your input! Beneteau First 28.5 - (Giant B235) good speed, brand loyalty, swim platform, however the interior of our B235 is a bit "flimsy". Catalina 30 Tall rig, ho hum, but lots of boats avaiable. Sail a friend’s Cat 25 and there is no place to sit outboard comfortably when heeled. Hunter 28 (not 28.5 or 280) we like the open layout - no bulkhead between V-berth and saloon, nice roomy cockpit, swim platform. Hunter 31 (or 33, 34?) - seems to have a similar roomy cockpit. C&C 29, 30, 33 or 34? Rock solid boat with good PHRF numbers. Poor cabin ventilation? Cockpit a bit small? We sailed a C&C 25 and the cockpit was more roomy than it appeared, perhaps a bit deeper? Realize a boat like this will require some work. My concerns are potential problems costing big bucks and down time. Diesel - I "twirl the iron" on the cars, lawn mower and the B235 outboard, however know very little about diesels. Can you run a compression test? Hours - what is high, what is low? Yanmar, Volvo? Access? What else do you look for? Hull- Understand most decks are "sandwich" construction, foam with fiberglass on either side. Some hulls are sandwich, and others are just thick fiberglass (C&C 30). Sandwich hull is difficult to repair properly below the waterline. Which boats have sandwich hulls? Potential problems with hull-keel attach/sealing? Depreciation - Seems the older boats will depreciate less percent over same time. Maybe buy a Catalina 320 someday, just out of the price range now! Any other big problems with steering/standing rigging? Thanks in advance— Lori, Dave and Captain Trav Swingle
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o'day 32
You might want to look at an older (mid 80's) O'Day 32 if you can find one for your price. Has a swim platform and should perform fairly well and be comfortable. Whatever boat you get install dorade vents!!! I can not emphasize this enough!! dave
You might want to look at an older (mid 80's) O'Day 32 if you can find one for your price. Has a swim platform and should perform fairly well and be comfortable. Whatever boat you get install dorade vents!!! I can not emphasize this enough!! dave
Performance = Cal
You ought to look at some of the Cal 31's and 34's on the market. They are in your price range, still race competitively, enjoy solid construction and have a large fanatically loyal list group on Sailnet that will be able to provide you with invaluable support. My Cal 27-T/2 (an IOR half tonner) rates about 192 in PHRF, but I can sail it right along with my C-320 until wind conditions favor the longer waterline of the 320. The larger boats are even faster.
You ought to look at some of the Cal 31's and 34's on the market. They are in your price range, still race competitively, enjoy solid construction and have a large fanatically loyal list group on Sailnet that will be able to provide you with invaluable support. My Cal 27-T/2 (an IOR half tonner) rates about 192 in PHRF, but I can sail it right along with my C-320 until wind conditions favor the longer waterline of the 320. The larger boats are even faster.
every boat is a compromise
and opinions are like butt holes, everybody got one. I sail the Catalina 30, 8,000 people cant be too wrong. if the wife went aboard one and came off wanting a larger boat, the C30 might just be your ticket.
and opinions are like butt holes, everybody got one. I sail the Catalina 30, 8,000 people cant be too wrong. if the wife went aboard one and came off wanting a larger boat, the C30 might just be your ticket.
Some other options on Yachtworld
Elite 30 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1129728&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=56149&url= Etap 30 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=961257&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=25984&url= S2 9.1A (my favorite choice) http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1091391&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=56149&url= Pearson 28 (good sleeper rating) http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1129045&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=2944&url=
Elite 30 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1129728&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=56149&url= Etap 30 http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=961257&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=25984&url= S2 9.1A (my favorite choice) http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1091391&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=56149&url= Pearson 28 (good sleeper rating) http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1129045&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=2944&url=
One more Consideration
You didn't mention Captain Travis' age but at some point he'll want to bring buddies along. Our oldest is 13 and having a friend with her on weekends helps keep her and us happy. So keep the 2 cabin layout in mind. "Hey a wife that wants a bigger boat is not a bad thing!" Correction: A wife that wants a bigger boat is a beautiful thing!
You didn't mention Captain Travis' age but at some point he'll want to bring buddies along. Our oldest is 13 and having a friend with her on weekends helps keep her and us happy. So keep the 2 cabin layout in mind. "Hey a wife that wants a bigger boat is not a bad thing!" Correction: A wife that wants a bigger boat is a beautiful thing!
I agree with David
Those are some good choices but I prefer the Pearson 28. Feels like a 30 footer in terms of space. Sails fast and is very forgiving. I smoke sabers and Cats with Mine. Check out the website below Tim
Those are some good choices but I prefer the Pearson 28. Feels like a 30 footer in terms of space. Sails fast and is very forgiving. I smoke sabers and Cats with Mine. Check out the website below Tim
LOL @ Tim
smoke sabers and cats! I have a friend I sail with all the time, he has a Pearson 28 and it is a REAL nice boat. BUT, he hardly smokes me in my C30. he might be a knot or knot and half faster but, that hardly qualifies AS SMOKING! when you are looking at cruisers in my humble opinion there is a lot more to consider than being an extra knot and half faster.
smoke sabers and cats! I have a friend I sail with all the time, he has a Pearson 28 and it is a REAL nice boat. BUT, he hardly smokes me in my C30. he might be a knot or knot and half faster but, that hardly qualifies AS SMOKING! when you are looking at cruisers in my humble opinion there is a lot more to consider than being an extra knot and half faster.
Sorry Dan...
I was in my first race a few weeks ago and I consider half a knot faster at these speeds alot. Especially if the LWL is more. Did not mean any offense to anyone. I often use the term "smoke" too loosely. Although I never inhale I agree there is more to look at but I have looked at the Sabers and Cats and I believe the Pearson still has more to offer. Obviously I am biased but Pearson has a reputation for building very good racer-cruisers. Just compare the PHRFs of the boats in question. Add to that the durability of the hand laid hull of the Pearson and you have a great boat. One down side though is that they are no longer in business. BTW who is your friend with the P28? I probably know him. Tim
I was in my first race a few weeks ago and I consider half a knot faster at these speeds alot. Especially if the LWL is more. Did not mean any offense to anyone. I often use the term "smoke" too loosely. Although I never inhale
I agree there is more to look at but I have looked at the Sabers and Cats and I believe the Pearson still has more to offer. Obviously I am biased but Pearson has a reputation for building very good racer-cruisers. Just compare the PHRFs of the boats in question. Add to that the durability of the hand laid hull of the Pearson and you have a great boat. One down side though is that they are no longer in business. BTW who is your friend with the P28? I probably know him. TimLake Ray Hubbard
Hi David, I sail out of Lake Ray Hubbard too at Bayview Marina. I bought my 1982 Hunter 33 last fall thru Todd Hartman at Inland Sailing. Ron
Hi David, I sail out of Lake Ray Hubbard too at Bayview Marina. I bought my 1982 Hunter 33 last fall thru Todd Hartman at Inland Sailing. Ron
I have the Hunter 28
It's a GREAT boat. If you find a 1993 model it has the back rail seat! You can't beat it. The Catalina 30 is a lost more money and I don't like them as much! Good Luck, Jim A H28 DownTime
It's a GREAT boat. If you find a 1993 model it has the back rail seat! You can't beat it. The Catalina 30 is a lost more money and I don't like them as much! Good Luck, Jim A H28 DownTime
Ray Hubbard as well
Hunter 27 at Captains Cove purchased from Todd at Inland as well... May be we need a separate thread...
Hunter 27 at Captains Cove purchased from Todd at Inland as well... May be we need a separate thread...
To Dan in Florida
An extra knot and a half is hugh. Racers look for anything they can do to get an extra knot. Cruisers claim not to be racers, but when getting someplace is a goal, getting there a little quicker is always an objective. If your buddy sails his boat a knot and a half faster than you, hs is smoking you.
An extra knot and a half is hugh. Racers look for anything they can do to get an extra knot. Cruisers claim not to be racers, but when getting someplace is a goal, getting there a little quicker is always an objective. If your buddy sails his boat a knot and a half faster than you, hs is smoking you.
sailcalculator
Search for sailcalculator on the web. It has a lot of numbers for a lot of boats. We bought a Pearson 323 based in part on the numbers. We didn't buy a Catalina 30 for the same reason. The capsize ratio is an important number with 2.0 and greater not recommended for open ocean use. The Motion Comfort number is another that indicates how badly you'll get beat up in a chop. For a cruiser the pound/inch is a good number indicating load carrying ability. It is a searchable database that will list sailboats that meet your specifications. The Pearson was our compromise boat. More rugged and seaworthy than a Catalina 30 but not as heavy and slow as a Allied Seawind. We were out in Mobile Bay with wall to wall 3-5' whitecaps and felt very secure. The boat's motion wasn't bad. A catalina 30 would have been just as safe in the bay but the motion would been more. We haven't had her out in the Gulf Yet. We also know that she isn't a "bluewater" boat just a more rugged coastal cruiser. The 4.5' draft and 45'3" mast were also considered important for cruisng along the gulf coast.
Search for sailcalculator on the web. It has a lot of numbers for a lot of boats. We bought a Pearson 323 based in part on the numbers. We didn't buy a Catalina 30 for the same reason. The capsize ratio is an important number with 2.0 and greater not recommended for open ocean use. The Motion Comfort number is another that indicates how badly you'll get beat up in a chop. For a cruiser the pound/inch is a good number indicating load carrying ability. It is a searchable database that will list sailboats that meet your specifications. The Pearson was our compromise boat. More rugged and seaworthy than a Catalina 30 but not as heavy and slow as a Allied Seawind. We were out in Mobile Bay with wall to wall 3-5' whitecaps and felt very secure. The boat's motion wasn't bad. A catalina 30 would have been just as safe in the bay but the motion would been more. We haven't had her out in the Gulf Yet. We also know that she isn't a "bluewater" boat just a more rugged coastal cruiser. The 4.5' draft and 45'3" mast were also considered important for cruisng along the gulf coast.
to Darrel of FLA
I gave up racing 18 yrs ago when I sold my Prindle 16. as far as "getting somewhere" when I get on my boat I AM THERE! my buddy in an average 8 hrs crusing day might be, might be 10 miles further. I often invite people to go sailing, I really only have one rule. if you have to be back at a certain time, dont come along. In my way of thinking it is not the destination but, the journey! if you want a Pearson so you can "smoke me" feel free, there are lots of stinkpots out there that are really smoking me.
I gave up racing 18 yrs ago when I sold my Prindle 16. as far as "getting somewhere" when I get on my boat I AM THERE! my buddy in an average 8 hrs crusing day might be, might be 10 miles further. I often invite people to go sailing, I really only have one rule. if you have to be back at a certain time, dont come along. In my way of thinking it is not the destination but, the journey! if you want a Pearson so you can "smoke me" feel free, there are lots of stinkpots out there that are really smoking me.
fast cruising is good!!!!
I have been surprised by the speed of our pearson 323 even with older sails. We considered a more sea worthy boat but when you look at the PHRF rateings a "blue water" boat is usually much slower than a coastal cruiser. The extra speed means that you actually sail your sailboat rather than motor when the winds are light. I'm guilty of spending all morning in sight of the dock trying to sail instead of starting the motor. Like Dan I enjoy the time on the boat. But if you want to go somewhere a faster sailboat means you motor less. My brother had a blue water boat. A Pacific Seacraft 25 while he was in Guam. He said that 15-20 knots made his boat happy!!! and it was comfortable in even more wind. But if he was sailing in Mobile Bay he would end up motoring a lot. Conversely if we take the P323 to Guam we'll be sitting at the dock when the winds get up over 25kts. I think that it is safe to say that light wind performance is very important along the Gulf Coast if you want to sail. With the sheltered bays you can stay inside and sail when the wind is higher. To state the obvious a great boat for San Francisco Bay would probably be a dog in Mobile bay. A a great boat for Mobile would probably always require a reef in SF bay.
I have been surprised by the speed of our pearson 323 even with older sails. We considered a more sea worthy boat but when you look at the PHRF rateings a "blue water" boat is usually much slower than a coastal cruiser. The extra speed means that you actually sail your sailboat rather than motor when the winds are light. I'm guilty of spending all morning in sight of the dock trying to sail instead of starting the motor. Like Dan I enjoy the time on the boat. But if you want to go somewhere a faster sailboat means you motor less. My brother had a blue water boat. A Pacific Seacraft 25 while he was in Guam. He said that 15-20 knots made his boat happy!!! and it was comfortable in even more wind. But if he was sailing in Mobile Bay he would end up motoring a lot. Conversely if we take the P323 to Guam we'll be sitting at the dock when the winds get up over 25kts. I think that it is safe to say that light wind performance is very important along the Gulf Coast if you want to sail. With the sheltered bays you can stay inside and sail when the wind is higher. To state the obvious a great boat for San Francisco Bay would probably be a dog in Mobile bay. A a great boat for Mobile would probably always require a reef in SF bay.
hey Tom
when yall come thru here on vacation, I'll race you from P'cola to Destin. lets see how much dif that knot and half makes. LOL
when yall come thru here on vacation, I'll race you from P'cola to Destin. lets see how much dif that knot and half makes. LOL
I agree with the J-30
If pure sailing fun was our number 1 concern we'd probably look at a J boat. But if you look at the sailcalculator the J's capsize ratio isn't so good and it's motion comfort means a rough ride. The P 323 is a slower,heavier and hopefully more comfortable boat. There is no doubt that a J30 would run circles around us. That is why I call the p-323 a compromise boat. More comfortable ,more room than a J-30 but faster than a Blue water boat. If we planned to cross oceans I'd buy a Allied Seawind ketch. The Contessa 32 is another great blue water boat. If we planned to stay in the bay I'd probably go with the Catalina 30 or the J-30. We looked at several Catalina 30s and they run about 10k cheaper than a P-323. It is hard to beat the value of a C-30. The P323 has about the same interior room as the C30 but is heavier and has a shallower keel than the standard C-30. Dan I'll be writing you to arrange that race. I suspect that you'll win if the wind is less than 10kts and I'll win if it's about 15kts.
If pure sailing fun was our number 1 concern we'd probably look at a J boat. But if you look at the sailcalculator the J's capsize ratio isn't so good and it's motion comfort means a rough ride. The P 323 is a slower,heavier and hopefully more comfortable boat. There is no doubt that a J30 would run circles around us. That is why I call the p-323 a compromise boat. More comfortable ,more room than a J-30 but faster than a Blue water boat. If we planned to cross oceans I'd buy a Allied Seawind ketch. The Contessa 32 is another great blue water boat. If we planned to stay in the bay I'd probably go with the Catalina 30 or the J-30. We looked at several Catalina 30s and they run about 10k cheaper than a P-323. It is hard to beat the value of a C-30. The P323 has about the same interior room as the C30 but is heavier and has a shallower keel than the standard C-30. Dan I'll be writing you to arrange that race. I suspect that you'll win if the wind is less than 10kts and I'll win if it's about 15kts.
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