Peaceful Nights?

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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Ok, Maybe it is just me but I see nothing that says the masthead on a sailboat is probably not the best place. Perhaps you could clarify.


Rule 21



  1. "All-round light" means a light showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 360 degrees.​
Where else would that be on a sailboat?



Chuck
Chuck, It's just you. ;)
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[*]at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
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Chuck the mast will not be effective in occluding a lantern hung on the back stay. Less than 1 degree port and starboard from dead ahead. That would require that the anchored vessel be absolutely immobile and that the anchor not swing on its support.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Ross, The section you are quoting is for a tanker not a sailboat. Chuck
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
Here is the Coast Guard page on lights for recreational vessels. Commercial vessels have a completely different set of requirements. Chuck

http://www.uscgboating.org/SAFETY/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm
It's the same rule for commercial and recreational vessels. Different paragraphs apply depending on the length of the vessel and some external factors (eg. being aground or in an anchorage designated by the Secretary, etc.).

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule3031.htm

--Tom.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Chuck, When is the last time you saw a tanker that met these definitions?

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
    1. in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
    2. at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
 
Jan 3, 2009
821
Marine Trader 34 Where Ever I am
Aug 19, 2004
239
Hunter 35 Vancouver, BC
Close Enough?

While you guys argue USCG rules, I would point out that only the main mast breaks the 365 degree view from the top of the MOB pole, and my calculation is that I get 359.95 degrees of circumferential anchor light coverage from this spot! Is this close enough to 360? :)
 
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Bob V

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Mar 13, 2008
235
Catalina 42mkII Lagoon Point
Question for the experts

"If your vessel is less than 65.6 feet/20 meters in length, then it is not required to display an anchor light if it is anchored in Inland Waters in a special anchorage designated by the Secretary of Transportation."

Do anchorages in state parks qualify under this rule? I had always thought that the rule read "designated anchorages" and had not realized they had to be designated by Sec of Trans.​

I hereby confess to not using the anchor light when I am anchored in such a situation, although I have 4 solar powered yard lights that I spread around the boat from stem to stern. They do light it up pretty well.​

I often remain anchored for several days (which is why I am such a power miser) and have never hoisted a day shape or for that matter used the inverted cone when motoring. My vessel is larger than 39' 4". Has any of you ever seen a vessel displaying day shapes? I know that I have not.​
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Click on the links that the stuff you posted http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/pops/nr_30ac.htm , http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/pops/nr_30b.htm. Does any of those look like a sailboat? As a matter of fact the second link is a power boat with an anchor light at the top of a mast. NOTHING says anything about a sailboat mast not being ideal and nothing you have posted refers to a sailboat at all. Chuck
So maybe our little toy boats aren't a very large concern for the folk that write regulations and some other anal fool has to interpret them for us.
If I anchor at night in a dark cove and law enforcement asks me concerning my anchor light, I shall enquire as to how they found me. When they tell me they saw my light, I shall ask them what might be their problem.
 

Bob V

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Mar 13, 2008
235
Catalina 42mkII Lagoon Point
One more simple question

When I am anchored in a designated anchorage using a 360 degree white mast head light, what is the best anchor to use?

Just kiddin'...didn't mean to start an argument.

:D
 

Benny

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Sep 27, 2008
1,149
Hunter 320 Tampa, FL
Our nights here at balmy at best. If I'm in a remote anchorage I'm going to be running the generator to run the A/C and might as well run the anchor light. I tend to agree that if you have not made provisons in your power survey to be able to run the anchor light all night you need to solve that issue. Regarding the angle of the neck as you approach an anchorage you will find that 1/2 mile out that anchor light will be at eye level and those solar lights on deck will not be seen perhaps creating a false impression that the anchorage is empty. We do not see what we do not anticipate to see. If you do not believe me ask any motorcycle rider who has had a car pull out in front of him.
 

Bob V

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Mar 13, 2008
235
Catalina 42mkII Lagoon Point
If I'm in a remote anchorage I'm going to be running the generator to run the A/C and might as well run the anchor light.

Benny, if you run your generator all night long, I don't think you need any lights. We'll know you're there.
 

Salty

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Dec 2, 2008
144
Catalina 390 14 Perth Amboy, NJ
Chuck,
I am with you in this one. If its hung lower than on top of the mast, its not considered 360 deg, because it can be obstructed by the rigging, bimini, or mast etc. I would use the mast head light to met the legal requirement and use another at the boom for more visibility. I remembered being the only boat at an anchorage in the windward island to display my anchor light and most of the boats were cruisers, we were the only charter boat. I got the impression that these cruisers were more concern on saving a few juice than their safety.
 
Jan 4, 2006
283
West Coast
Stop and Look at the Language Straightforwardly

They are two different ideas here: "where it can best be seen" prescribes the POSITION of the light; "all around white light" prescribes the DESIGN/TYPE of the light. Don't read further until you see that this is true. Go back and read as many times as necessary, until you recognize this obvious distinction that you never noticed before.

Many are confusing the meaning of these two phrases: they want to understand "all around" as the POSITION, when it is the DESIGN/TYPE. The position has already been prescribed in the first phrase. "All around" and "white" are not PLACES. They are CHARACTERISTICS of the light fixture.

Show a ten-year old a drawing of a burning barn lantern next to a lit flashlight. Ask him to identify which one is an "all around light." I'm putting $100 on the table, betting he'll choose the lantern: any takers for the flashlight? I'll play as many times as you want with fresh kids each round, until you run out of money or wise up.

The reg. is not saying the light must be seen, unobstructed, from 360° (if that's what it means, it's a damned awkward way to be saying that when it would be clearer to just prescribe that the light "must be seen from an uninterrupted 360° arc."

Consider that the regulation has no problem specifying minimal effect when it wants: the DISTANCE from which the light must be seen describes the phenomenological effect of the light, but that's not the language in this case.

No, the phrase "all around white light" describes two CHARACTERISTICS of the DESIGN/TYPE of light emitting device; to wit, the light itself must, by its design, radiate "all around", i.e., 360°. Then that all around light is to be mounted "where it can best be seen." The word "best" assumes that there might (will be) be incidental angles from which the light CANNOT be seen. There's no reason to prescribe "can BEST be seen" if the light MUST be seen 360°.

The language allows for practicality.

My paraffin lantern is an all around white light. I mount it in a highly conspicuous place, one of a few places where it might "best be seen." Usually I prefer running it up the flag halyard to rest underneath the starboard spreader, with a line running from the bottom bail to check its swing. Other places I've used it include under the boom/over the dodger, and rigged just under the fork of my split backstay, which for me leaves it just over head's height if I'm standing in the cockpit.

I believe my all around white light is displayed where it can best be seen, and meets the regs. Talk of avoiding the obstruction of the mast is not language found in the regs: it's deductive reasoning based on a faulty understanding of "all around white light." I believe the phrase "can best be seen" not only allows for, but assumes, a below-masthead position, which many, if not most, us us agree is more conspicuous to nearby traffic than a sole white masthead light.

Fair Winds,
Jeff
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
Umm...never seen a circle with 365 degrees... :) Most only have 360. :)

While you guys argue USCG rules, I would point out that only the main mast breaks the 365 degree view from the top of the MOB pole, and my calculation is that I get 364.95 degrees of circumferential anchor light coverage from this spot! Is this close enough to 365? :)
 
Nov 21, 2007
673
Beneteau Oceanis 34 Kingston, WA
Perhaps Canada requires and extra 5 degrees for redundancy?
 
Jun 5, 2004
209
- - Eugene, OR
New math. They're finding extra dimensions in string theory (very appropriate for a sailing forum). You never know what might show up next.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo
 
Aug 19, 2004
239
Hunter 35 Vancouver, BC
Oops

Umm...never seen a circle with 365 degrees... :) Most only have 360. :)
Well there are several possible explanations. Either the light fitting is so good that it covers more than 360 degrees of arc, the extra angle represents a prudent safety factor, I get confused watching the days of the year go by or we are using metric degrees up here! :D

Hey Phil, how come when I edit out my mistakes it doesn't automatically change it in the subsequent quotes? :bang:
 
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