Patrick/free boat question
- Thread starter sailormanbigd
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wood...
You can get strips of wood for just about nothing. I am up here in the northeast... there are many lumber species to choose from. Go to a millwork place... that makes cabinets, moldings or whatever. The lumber you are looking for they usually throw away... as it is the rest of the board they do not use. Stop in... tell them what you are doing... sooner or later they will have some culls you can use. Try to find any kind of hardwood. Worse comes to worse... you can have them mill it down to whatever you need (25$ tops). Good luck, Rich
You can get strips of wood for just about nothing. I am up here in the northeast... there are many lumber species to choose from. Go to a millwork place... that makes cabinets, moldings or whatever. The lumber you are looking for they usually throw away... as it is the rest of the board they do not use. Stop in... tell them what you are doing... sooner or later they will have some culls you can use. Try to find any kind of hardwood. Worse comes to worse... you can have them mill it down to whatever you need (25$ tops). Good luck, Rich
- Jul 24, 2006
- 628
good stuff
good stuff from owners.com as usual. And nobody went off on a tangent. Thanks, Patrick
good stuff from owners.com as usual. And nobody went off on a tangent. Thanks, Patrick
Patrick, cedar, cypress, douglas fir ,sitca spruce(not your home depot white woo
Cedar and cypress, are great woods for this type of thing. Of course everything has the + and the -. Cedar and cypress are very good with water. The downfalls are soft and learning to wrap the grain pattern correctly. I think they are the wood to use, but they will damage easily and they split if flexed from the wrong side. Since this is a discussion, I will wait for new input. Patrick, when you stay in the conversation, it stays on track. Letterman, nice job! r.w.landau
Cedar and cypress, are great woods for this type of thing. Of course everything has the + and the -. Cedar and cypress are very good with water. The downfalls are soft and learning to wrap the grain pattern correctly. I think they are the wood to use, but they will damage easily and they split if flexed from the wrong side. Since this is a discussion, I will wait for new input. Patrick, when you stay in the conversation, it stays on track. Letterman, nice job! r.w.landau
- Jul 24, 2006
- 628
letterman, i want THAT!!!
hey Letterman....I want that! Looks much better close-up. What wood is it made out of? Thanks fr the photo, got me all giddy inside for the posibility of haveing my cruiser looking good, too.
hey Letterman....I want that! Looks much better close-up. What wood is it made out of? Thanks fr the photo, got me all giddy inside for the posibility of haveing my cruiser looking good, too.
Listen to the advise here carefully.
You won't find that cabinet grade wood work well for you in this case. If you can find a saw mill locally or if you can find some high ring count pressure treated Pine these will be the way to go. Southern pine is notorious for letting go of paint, oak is much better. Old cypress would do nicely for the pieces above and below the flange but the wear piece needs to be pretty tough. Install the wood green and let it dry for the summer and then prime and paint. It is going to live outside anyway so don't buy kiln dried lumber.
You won't find that cabinet grade wood work well for you in this case. If you can find a saw mill locally or if you can find some high ring count pressure treated Pine these will be the way to go. Southern pine is notorious for letting go of paint, oak is much better. Old cypress would do nicely for the pieces above and below the flange but the wear piece needs to be pretty tough. Install the wood green and let it dry for the summer and then prime and paint. It is going to live outside anyway so don't buy kiln dried lumber.
Patrick, Please know that we are trying to keep you in affordable woods.
I actually used epi for my handrail and mohogany for my companionway boards and stayed with teak for the companionway slides. You have many options. I am sure the woods I chose will do good for a long period of time. I made a fiberglass dingy about 4 years ago and used cypress to sandwitch the gunwhale and the transom. I did have a minor problem on the short tight curves with the cypress but they are doing fine with no treatment. The grain opened to expose splinters. In one area, I was concerned that it would split along the grain and totally sacrifice the piece. It has taken shape and is no longer a problem. Use the best wood you can on an affordable basis. remember, I am not trying to be a downer here but, how much do you want to sink into a boat that may not be resaleable. Call me dumb, mean, what ever, I am saying this is your boat! It may never be anyone elses boat. Restore it to your needs. Investigate what your boat is selling for and know that you probably will not get more than the current asking prices for your boat. Patrick fix it and enjoy it, but done use this as an investment! This is from a guy that is trying to help you look out for you and yours! Beware, boats can sometimes be worse that women: suductive, enticing, desirious. We will sink way more money and worse yet, time, than we should making them look good instead of sinking the money into our wives that are the living beings that know and love us. Just a thought, r.w.landau
I actually used epi for my handrail and mohogany for my companionway boards and stayed with teak for the companionway slides. You have many options. I am sure the woods I chose will do good for a long period of time. I made a fiberglass dingy about 4 years ago and used cypress to sandwitch the gunwhale and the transom. I did have a minor problem on the short tight curves with the cypress but they are doing fine with no treatment. The grain opened to expose splinters. In one area, I was concerned that it would split along the grain and totally sacrifice the piece. It has taken shape and is no longer a problem. Use the best wood you can on an affordable basis. remember, I am not trying to be a downer here but, how much do you want to sink into a boat that may not be resaleable. Call me dumb, mean, what ever, I am saying this is your boat! It may never be anyone elses boat. Restore it to your needs. Investigate what your boat is selling for and know that you probably will not get more than the current asking prices for your boat. Patrick fix it and enjoy it, but done use this as an investment! This is from a guy that is trying to help you look out for you and yours! Beware, boats can sometimes be worse that women: suductive, enticing, desirious. We will sink way more money and worse yet, time, than we should making them look good instead of sinking the money into our wives that are the living beings that know and love us. Just a thought, r.w.landau
R.W. is right on
If my memory is correct, and it may not be, I believe that when you first aquired the boat you said that you intend to keep it for a very very long time and intend to go cruising in it someday. If that be the case, you will at some points in time just have to spend the money to do it right or it will come back and haunt you. You are not rebuilding a 16 footer here. You are rebuilding a heavy 33 footer. Keep that in mind when you think about short cuts. Keep at it and keep it fun. Tony B
If my memory is correct, and it may not be, I believe that when you first aquired the boat you said that you intend to keep it for a very very long time and intend to go cruising in it someday. If that be the case, you will at some points in time just have to spend the money to do it right or it will come back and haunt you. You are not rebuilding a 16 footer here. You are rebuilding a heavy 33 footer. Keep that in mind when you think about short cuts. Keep at it and keep it fun. Tony B
- Jul 24, 2006
- 628
woman done gone
R.W.- the woman left me one month ago. It wasn't all because i spent my time fixing the boat, but certainly weighed in on the decision. So now the boat is my woman. I agree with frugal. I don't have much extra money right now anyway. Even if i dream of using exotic woods it would be just a dream. The money isn't there. That is the reason for posting-to get other's opinions. I realy like the boat and plan on keeping it ffor a long time. Resale is not an issue. Thanks for all the advice. Patrick
R.W.- the woman left me one month ago. It wasn't all because i spent my time fixing the boat, but certainly weighed in on the decision. So now the boat is my woman. I agree with frugal. I don't have much extra money right now anyway. Even if i dream of using exotic woods it would be just a dream. The money isn't there. That is the reason for posting-to get other's opinions. I realy like the boat and plan on keeping it ffor a long time. Resale is not an issue. Thanks for all the advice. Patrick
The rebuilding criteria that I learned a long time ago
and that I live by is; " do everything with the knowledge that someday you will be in a storm and that is not a good time to start wondering if you should have made something a little better". Nothing too strong ever broke.
and that I live by is; " do everything with the knowledge that someday you will be in a storm and that is not a good time to start wondering if you should have made something a little better". Nothing too strong ever broke.
A different approach
After you glass the inside of the joint, cut the lip flush with the side of the boat, bevel it and glass it. Make it all one structure and put on whatever rub rail you want. That would be way stronger that any bolted joint.
After you glass the inside of the joint, cut the lip flush with the side of the boat, bevel it and glass it. Make it all one structure and put on whatever rub rail you want. That would be way stronger that any bolted joint.
can't do that Dan
Not only is it bolted (probably screwed), it's most likely gooped up. And the lateral stresses, if it is removed, would make the boat totaly worthless after one good pounding! The halves for a piece that resists lateral movement!
Not only is it bolted (probably screwed), it's most likely gooped up. And the lateral stresses, if it is removed, would make the boat totaly worthless after one good pounding! The halves for a piece that resists lateral movement!
I think that my approach would be to apply wood
above and below the flanges and grind it fair. Then glass over that with a substantial thickness of glass and resin well lapped onto the hull/deck sides. This would build a strong belt around the boat. Then I would consider what I wanted to use as a rub rail moulding.
above and below the flanges and grind it fair. Then glass over that with a substantial thickness of glass and resin well lapped onto the hull/deck sides. This would build a strong belt around the boat. Then I would consider what I wanted to use as a rub rail moulding.
might have a point...
Mr. Letterman. I see what you are saying. Ixnay... on the grindersay, Rich
Mr. Letterman. I see what you are saying. Ixnay... on the grindersay, Rich
If this is an outward turned lip with screws
it is a weak joint that would only be stronger by grinding the lip flush with the hull, then beveling the outside of the joint 12/1 and filling it with proper glass and epoxy, after glassing the inside of the joint. This will produce a much stronger joint than goop and screws. I wouldn't do it either on this boat but it is a much stronger joint than screws and goop for sure. It is exactly what I would do if I wanted a very strong joint. The joint is the weakest part of the boat. What do you mean can't do, I got a grinder that will grind up a complete boat into saw dust. Can't do it, yeah right.
it is a weak joint that would only be stronger by grinding the lip flush with the hull, then beveling the outside of the joint 12/1 and filling it with proper glass and epoxy, after glassing the inside of the joint. This will produce a much stronger joint than goop and screws. I wouldn't do it either on this boat but it is a much stronger joint than screws and goop for sure. It is exactly what I would do if I wanted a very strong joint. The joint is the weakest part of the boat. What do you mean can't do, I got a grinder that will grind up a complete boat into saw dust. Can't do it, yeah right.
I STRONGLY agree with Letterman don't grind flange
That screwed and glued flange is forming an outer rib that really helps to keep the sides of hull from flapping back and forth. Glassing from inside would be fine and you can decorate(cover) flange with anything ya want but don't get rid of it. Think of a pop can- think how much strength the crimped top edge contributes. Even if the can was made of a skin twice as thick, without the crimped edge it would still flex in your hand and not hold its shape. Even if you glassed heavy over ground down flange it would not have glass oriented in direction to provide stiffness of existing flange.
That screwed and glued flange is forming an outer rib that really helps to keep the sides of hull from flapping back and forth. Glassing from inside would be fine and you can decorate(cover) flange with anything ya want but don't get rid of it. Think of a pop can- think how much strength the crimped top edge contributes. Even if the can was made of a skin twice as thick, without the crimped edge it would still flex in your hand and not hold its shape. Even if you glassed heavy over ground down flange it would not have glass oriented in direction to provide stiffness of existing flange.
Whatever
That screwed joint isn't there for strength. It's there becasue it makes boats cheap and easy to build. Boat builders would love to make boats out of one piece but it would cost too much. I know he isn't going to grind the joint, nobody has that much ambition. And this boat isn't worth it. If you truly hated the lip sticking out of the side of the boat, this would be a vialble option. Why don't they bolt little boats together? I liked the firehose idea.
That screwed joint isn't there for strength. It's there becasue it makes boats cheap and easy to build. Boat builders would love to make boats out of one piece but it would cost too much. I know he isn't going to grind the joint, nobody has that much ambition. And this boat isn't worth it. If you truly hated the lip sticking out of the side of the boat, this would be a vialble option. Why don't they bolt little boats together? I liked the firehose idea.
Alright ! enough already!! That flange was put on there for the convience of the
builder. On my boat that flange was bedded in putty and popriveted together. The wooden cap rail was attached with self tapping screws. Glassing that joint inside and out will make it as strong as the rest of the hull. The statement that I made concerning just adding wood on each side of the flanges would make it stronger than it is now. Grinding the flange away and glassing it fair will make it as strong as the rest if it is done right as DanH has suggested .
builder. On my boat that flange was bedded in putty and popriveted together. The wooden cap rail was attached with self tapping screws. Glassing that joint inside and out will make it as strong as the rest of the hull. The statement that I made concerning just adding wood on each side of the flanges would make it stronger than it is now. Grinding the flange away and glassing it fair will make it as strong as the rest if it is done right as DanH has suggested .
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