I had a very disconcerting experience this weekend with the packing gland on my Catalina 310 that I would appreciate some toughts on. We went for a sail and then motored back to the slip with a total engine run time of 90 minutes. The motor is still at low time with only 40 hours and I had never noticed any excessive dripping from the packing gland prior to that. The next morning I checked the engine compartment before we left the boat for 3 weeks and found the engine pan nearly full of salt water. The packing gland was leaking at a rate of 1 drop every 5 seconds and filled the well behind the engine overflowing into the pan. The fix was easy with just an 1/8 turn on the gland to snug it up. But the design question is why isn't the well for the gland connected to the bilge. I understand the risk of pollution if the engine pan drains into the bilge but surely the well for the packing gland can be routed internally, or even with clear tubing, to the bilge. The packing gland well is contained so it seems like you'd have to fill the boat with water until the floor board floats free before the bilge pump could be effective. An additional concern is that the packing gland well is very difficult to see without pulling up the rear berth so you could have a significant drip rate and not be aware of it. Any thoughts?
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Randy
I remember this...
I don't have a 310, but I seem to remember reading something about this type of problem in Mainsheet magazine, 2 or 3 issues back. I seem to remember that the fix is to drill a small drain hole, allowing the water to pass... Check old copies of Mainsheet, or perhaps someone else can offer some help. Randy
I don't have a 310, but I seem to remember reading something about this type of problem in Mainsheet magazine, 2 or 3 issues back. I seem to remember that the fix is to drill a small drain hole, allowing the water to pass... Check old copies of Mainsheet, or perhaps someone else can offer some help. Randy
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Jon W.
Drainage
Our C310 has a shallow depression under the shaft (see the linked picture), which blends directly to the molded pan under the engine. This pan has three holes drilled vertically at the forward lowest point which would let water (or whatever) drain towards the bilge. Does yours not have the drain holes in the pan under the front of the engine?
Our C310 has a shallow depression under the shaft (see the linked picture), which blends directly to the molded pan under the engine. This pan has three holes drilled vertically at the forward lowest point which would let water (or whatever) drain towards the bilge. Does yours not have the drain holes in the pan under the front of the engine?
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Frank Gazzano
Jon - Drain Holes
Jon, The packing gland well on hull #92 looks identical to the picture on your website. The engine pan had filled to the top just short of the floorboards so I'm sure there's no drain hole there. I questioned the dealer about this the day it happened and they were adamant that you shouldn't drain the engine pan into the bilge. The argument was that if you had a hazmat spill in the form of oil or fuel you would be pumping it overboard and create an environmental problem. However, after thinking it through, there are numerous places the engine could leak salt water into the pan from and cause the same problem as the packing gland did. I'm sure I can figure out a location to drill a drain hole that would connect the packing gland well to the bilge and have it flow around or under the pan but the problem of other salt water engine leaks would still exist. I sent an inquiry to the factory and will post their response. I'm all in favor of doing everything to save the endangered red crested horn toad from extinction but the drain holes into the bilge are starting to sound good compared to a drip that can flood your boat. Being an engineer, and trying to complicate things as much as possible, the only other thought I had was to use a phone dialer with water level detectors in multiple locations. Do you mind if I ask how much the dripless seal in the picture cost you to have installed? Prior to this the boat had stayed really dry so I dismissed installing one but may now reconsider.
Jon, The packing gland well on hull #92 looks identical to the picture on your website. The engine pan had filled to the top just short of the floorboards so I'm sure there's no drain hole there. I questioned the dealer about this the day it happened and they were adamant that you shouldn't drain the engine pan into the bilge. The argument was that if you had a hazmat spill in the form of oil or fuel you would be pumping it overboard and create an environmental problem. However, after thinking it through, there are numerous places the engine could leak salt water into the pan from and cause the same problem as the packing gland did. I'm sure I can figure out a location to drill a drain hole that would connect the packing gland well to the bilge and have it flow around or under the pan but the problem of other salt water engine leaks would still exist. I sent an inquiry to the factory and will post their response. I'm all in favor of doing everything to save the endangered red crested horn toad from extinction but the drain holes into the bilge are starting to sound good compared to a drip that can flood your boat. Being an engineer, and trying to complicate things as much as possible, the only other thought I had was to use a phone dialer with water level detectors in multiple locations. Do you mind if I ask how much the dripless seal in the picture cost you to have installed? Prior to this the boat had stayed really dry so I dismissed installing one but may now reconsider.
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Hayden Watson
another solution
I wish that I had a well at my packing gland. I am going to install the smallest bilge pump I can find in a tiny well at my packing gland. I will epoxy some starboard just behind the engine to make the well . I have two 2000 GPH pumps for emergencies but they are too big to do a good job of removing the water that comes in at the packing gland. This way I can keep the keel bolts dry.
I wish that I had a well at my packing gland. I am going to install the smallest bilge pump I can find in a tiny well at my packing gland. I will epoxy some starboard just behind the engine to make the well . I have two 2000 GPH pumps for emergencies but they are too big to do a good job of removing the water that comes in at the packing gland. This way I can keep the keel bolts dry.
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Jon W
Cost of Dripless
Frank, The dripless seal was one of the cheaper items added during commissioning. It goes for about $180. Total including installation was $240 as it probably took less than an hour of labor. As far as environmental concerns of fuel or oil being pumped out by the bilge pump, I understand the concern but I don't think it is very likely. If there were enough leakage of either fluid to reach the pump outlet I think I would notice the engine seize up or stop running in time to take action. Besides, I doubt that even four quarts of oil would have enough volume to make it to the bilge, up to the level of the float switch activating, and through the hoses to the outlet. But I guess you never know.
Frank, The dripless seal was one of the cheaper items added during commissioning. It goes for about $180. Total including installation was $240 as it probably took less than an hour of labor. As far as environmental concerns of fuel or oil being pumped out by the bilge pump, I understand the concern but I don't think it is very likely. If there were enough leakage of either fluid to reach the pump outlet I think I would notice the engine seize up or stop running in time to take action. Besides, I doubt that even four quarts of oil would have enough volume to make it to the bilge, up to the level of the float switch activating, and through the hoses to the outlet. But I guess you never know.
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Robert Braddy
Dear Frank, Packing glands are an eternal nuissance, but you seem to have found a solution with the dripless gland. As for the water getting to the bilge. There should be two or three small holes at the forward end of the pan under the engine. These holes lead into the bilge, which is divided into four compartments, or basins. In my boat, hull number 6, there was no limber hole between the third and second basin (counting from the forward end). That would not have much to do with your problem if you don't have the holes from the engine pan. But, assuming you do, check them for being plugged. I have a straightened clothes hanger just for this purpose and have needed it a couple of times. As you know, Catalina is not too good about cleaning out the sawdust and other construction junk from between the hull and the pan. It is highly liabel to getting into those holes. As to pollution, you'd have to drop an awful lot of oil out of your engine and transmission to cause a problem with the EPA. Hope the problem is solved. Bob Braddy
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Frank Gazzano
Robert - Bilge
Bob, thanks for the tip, I'm sure there's no pan drain but I think the electric drill will be out this weekend. Regarding your comment about the bilge I would advise you to check the installation of the bilge pump carefully on your 310. The factory made two fatal mistakes on mine. First the float rubbed the side wall which caused it to hang up. Second, the mounting surface was very irregular and when they tightened the mounting screws it distorted the plastic float base to cause enough drag that the switch arm would not float free. Any way the 310 is still a great design and we're really enjoying ours in SoCal.
Bob, thanks for the tip, I'm sure there's no pan drain but I think the electric drill will be out this weekend. Regarding your comment about the bilge I would advise you to check the installation of the bilge pump carefully on your 310. The factory made two fatal mistakes on mine. First the float rubbed the side wall which caused it to hang up. Second, the mounting surface was very irregular and when they tightened the mounting screws it distorted the plastic float base to cause enough drag that the switch arm would not float free. Any way the 310 is still a great design and we're really enjoying ours in SoCal.
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John
dripping in the engine area
I have a 7 year old 30. When I first got the boat, I was confused about the packing gland dripping and filling the area under the engine (good for the oil pan and gasket)? I know about oil and the environment but I did the following. Drilled a very small 1/8 " hole in the very bottom of the containment so it would drip into bilge, and then fastened an oil soak pillow in bilge area at the drip, any oil going into bilge will be absorbed by the pad. Check frequently, and no environmental impact.
I have a 7 year old 30. When I first got the boat, I was confused about the packing gland dripping and filling the area under the engine (good for the oil pan and gasket)? I know about oil and the environment but I did the following. Drilled a very small 1/8 " hole in the very bottom of the containment so it would drip into bilge, and then fastened an oil soak pillow in bilge area at the drip, any oil going into bilge will be absorbed by the pad. Check frequently, and no environmental impact.
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Ron
FIX THE PROBLEM!
The Catalina manual for my C320, and numerous other publications (e.g., Nigal Calder's handbook), suggest that a drip-rate of 1 or 2 drops per minute is adequate to lubricate/cool the shaft. I'd take a large wrench to the locking nut (closest to the prop), loosen it, tighten the packing nut (closest to the engine) to achieve the desired drip-rate, and then retighten the locking nut. Check the tightness/drip-rate after motoring around a bit! My local yard guys say that zero drips is OK as long as the shaft doesn't overheat while motoring. Good luck --Ron
The Catalina manual for my C320, and numerous other publications (e.g., Nigal Calder's handbook), suggest that a drip-rate of 1 or 2 drops per minute is adequate to lubricate/cool the shaft. I'd take a large wrench to the locking nut (closest to the prop), loosen it, tighten the packing nut (closest to the engine) to achieve the desired drip-rate, and then retighten the locking nut. Check the tightness/drip-rate after motoring around a bit! My local yard guys say that zero drips is OK as long as the shaft doesn't overheat while motoring. Good luck --Ron
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Pat Tyler
Fix the Problem
My 320 had a drain just aft of the pan that drains under the pan to the bilge. It's about a 1/2 inch hole. Hope this helps...
My 320 had a drain just aft of the pan that drains under the pan to the bilge. It's about a 1/2 inch hole. Hope this helps...
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