Outhaul tension for cruising

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

N&E...
If you're saying the only way to experience real sailing, and, by inference, be a "real sailor", is by heading out across a major body of water, then I'm a little turned off that you don't think much of us "lake sailors".
Did I take this wrong?
Paul

 

[BrianW]

Re: I have to wonder how many

Amen Brother Phil (N&E)! BrianW

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Sail trim and the indolent skipper ...

I am beginning to see the error of my ways and I am resolved to have proper sail trim for all points of sail at all times. I am afraid that it may be an uphill battle. Unfortunately I do not have the luxury of firing my indolent crew and starting fresh. My indolent crew bought our boat as an anniversary present! Seeing as my crew is more inclined to relaxation while the skipper is at the helm (this was my fault from the very beginning ... I should never have tolerated this lax attitude and I should have set her straight right off the bat as soon as we acquired the vessel) I can either jump around the boat making sail trim adjustments as if I were single-handed or I can attemp the long hard road which will eventually lead to complete subservience on the part of my crew so that I can calmly issue orders and watch with complete satisfaction as they are carried out as I expertly steer the vessel on the precise course that will optimize the effect of the desired sail trim. This will certainly give me great satisfaction and I will be smug in the knowledge that have mastered trim for my sails, even if it means that I will be getting no trim at home.

Hermit, by all means, DO NOT attempt to sail without completely outfitting your vessel with all the sail trim features that are available. You do not want the label of 'indolent skipper'. While your crew can still be influenced with proper sailing habits, DO NOT tolerate indolence. Indolent habits are nearly impossible to break and if you want to have the respect of all true 'sailors' you must demonstrate your skill at issuing sail trim commands and having them carried out without even so much as a dirty look or extended middle finger!

 

[Hermit Scott]

bffatcat-I cut the furler apart to get it off of the stay. Part of the foil is still stuck on the cable. I had to replace the headstay, so I needed to bring the cable back to my shop to get the length right. I think I will be able to buy one soon though. I like the look of the Alado. I may give them a try.
My latest invention looks to be a hit. I met with the San Antonio Spurs today and they ordered one and said they would give me an endorsement for free! I am jumping out of my skin with excitement today.

 

[Hermit Scott]

If I needed respect I would have been a doctor not a filthy capitalist.
To my shame, I have a feeling that I am the lazy sailor that has been discussed in previous posts.

 

[Alan]

Everyone gets to play with their own boat as they please. You can do as you please with everything concerning your boat. The original question however was "How often do I need to adjust the outhaul while sailing?"

To answer this question with 'there's just no need' or 'I could care less' doesn't really answer the question. Those who choose to ignore sail trim have every right to. However, it is not a sufficient answer on outhaul adjustment.

Some of the comments posted seem to take offense at the audacity that 'sail trim' is an integral part of SAILING. Pretending that these adjustments are not needed or are somehow useless is just plain wrong. You can choose to ignore or overlook your sail trim or you can endeavor to try to sail with the best you can, it's up to you.

 

[jibes138]

Proper sail trim

Proper sail trim requires constant adjustments. Watch an americas cup race, there are multiple sail trimmers constantly tweaking the settings trying to eke out another fraction of a knot. For the rest of us sailing is a bunch of compromises, we don't have the crew to put on each adjustment, and can't be expected to maintain focus like an americas cup crew in a two hour race. Generally we set our sails for the conditions and then make adjustments like reef the main, tighten the sheet, haul the anchor chain and rode back aboard that fell overboard.

 

[Stu Jackson]

You guys are talkin' around each other

There used to be that saying: "There's only ONE way to trim sails, the right way!" Because there should be no difference between racers and cruisers because the most efficient way to move the boat is properly trimmed sails.

Heck, that's still true, all you're jabbin' about here is the amount of hardware and frequency of resetting. Include "lazy" if you'd like.

There is a second way of trimming sails, seen altogether too often: Not trimmed.

How many of you see folks going downwind with their mains in tight, etc.?

It's the folks who don't care that end up going slow and wonder why.

 

[zeehag]

Proper sail trim requires constant adjustments. Watch an americas cup race, there are multiple sail trimmers constantly tweaking the settings trying to eke out another fraction of a knot. For the rest of us sailing is a bunch of compromises, we don't have the crew to put on each adjustment, and can't be expected to maintain focus like an americas cup crew in a two hour race. Generally we set our sails for the conditions and then make adjustments like reef the main, tighten the sheet, haul the anchor chain and rode back aboard that fell overboard.

proper sail trim involves watching to make sure you are getting what you want out of the sails you have up. if someone wants to run americas cup, first of all, have a decent NAME in sailing and m ore buxs than god---then make sure you have a very strong crew to grind the damn machinery all the time. proper sail trim is not that involved. you do NOT have to always always be DOING something to the boat while sailing it. you just need to be watchful that you are going in the right direction and the sails are full.---sailing is not an attempt at killing self by having to do something every minuet--how are you gonna live to cross a lake or a sea or an ocean if you are always working soooo hard you cannot enjoy the trip??? the point of sailing is to enjoy self and scenery without having to always be DOING something---unless ye wanna fish.......-

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

I don't find myself disagreeing with Alan that often. However, the notion that under a given set of conditions there can only be one right trim is clearly unsustainable without specifying for what PURPOSE one happens to be sailing.

Some of us sail to be alone, some to find romance. Some want to get somewhere, some just want to be underway. Some need to find themselves, others hope to lose themselves. Some need the ocean, others just need a boat. Some want to prove themselves, some want to relax. Some never leave and some never come back. The list goes on and on.

I submit that for each and everyone of these purposes there is going to be a right trim and a wrong trim.....

Isn't sailing wonderful??!

Flying Dutchman

 

[jibes138]

What is the proper sail trim if you are fishing? I enjoy fishing while i am sailing, have caught many bluefish in the process.
My point about sail trim is merely that conditions under sail are constantly varying and thus sail trim needs constant vigilance to be optimized, or you can do what 99.9973% of people out sailing do and compromise a little on sail trim, make adjustments, if you have them, for major changes in conditions. Personally I love to monitor and trim sails especially is I am sailing in the same direction as another boat and feel I have a chance to win the impromptu race that surely develops.
So back to the original post...."How often do you need to adjust the outhaul?"
Answer: From never to always, it all depends on whether you have an adjustable outhaul, care to adjust it,and have variable conditions, but don't let that stop you from sailing.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hermit, do your best with what you have ...

I hope everyone realizes my last post was intended to lighten the mood just a little. I think many of us interpreted the question in different ways. I thought that Hermit was asking if it was necessary to have an adjustable outhaul control in order to go sailing. I know from his many posts that his ultimate goal is to actually sail his boat sometime in the near future and that he is trying to sort out all of the complications that has thus far frustrated his effort. I am simply reassuring him that he can go sailing as long as he can make his sail flat. I say that he needs a flat sail because I know about the winds in his location and the fact that he will be attempting to sail his mast head rig without a head sail. He will have enough problems trying to sail upwind without a head sail and he will need a flat main sail to aid that effort. If his outhaul is not very functional and he needs to find a fixed position rather than trying to struggle with an adjustment that the boat simply isn't rigged for, then he would be far better off sacrificing downwind performance by maintaining a flat entry for better upwind performance. HOWEVER, I think I made the point that a properly functioning outhaul adjustment can be a back-burner item COMPARED to the importance of sailing with a head sail on a mast head rigged sail boat. I can think of no other single more frustrating experience than trying to sail a mast head rigged sail boat in windy conditions without a headsail in order to drive the boat adequately. I would make it a front-burner item to get a foil or track for the fore stay so that you can at least get one of your head sails up.

I think trimming sails is important and fun to do. When I'm NOT driving the boat, I am constantly making adjustments for my own satisfaction. When I am driving the boat, I sometimes have to bite my tongue so as not to spoil the day. I also count the outhaul adjustment as a very important feature and for that reason, one of the first things I did when we got the boat was run the outhaul line back so it could be adjusted from the cockpit using the cabin top winch. Before, it was only adjustable if you climbed up forward to adjust it and cleat it off near the mast and no winch was available so it made it a real problem if you were intending to flatten the sail sufficiently when turning upwind from a reach on a windy day. I count the outhaul adjustment as more important than the cunningham and I generally use it more even than the vang, although I am getting better about using the vang even when beating upwind (where I used to think it was virtually useless, given that the mainsheet also controls twist as long as the traveller is inboard).

 

[Dan Johnson]

For those of us who race...

where "light wind" is a barely preceptable ripple on the water and not the absence of white caps, we adjust the outhaul to flatten the mainsail in those conditions to allow the airflow across the sail to become "attached"--same setting as if it was blowing 20+ knots.

In the range of wind between these two conditions, the outhaul is let out some to create more sail shape, and the sail shape is adjusted to get the best flow of air off the tell-tales at the batten pocket points.

For cruising or a day-sail, just getting the sails up and drawing is tweaking enough!

 

[Dan Johnson]

Claude...

took a closer look at your mainsheet rigging and find it appears to be totally different from the set-up on mine and the other H34's on my docks.

Our mainsheet terminates on a becket on the traveller block, runs through the mast blocks and the traveler block, then to a forward mast block, then down through turning blocks at the mast base and cabin top back to the line lock and winch on the cabin top at the compaionway (port side on my boat).

I'm trying to figure out how your system works.

 

[Stu Jackson]

In addition to this outhaul business

Just occurred to me that it's WAY windy where Hermit's boat is located.

Ya think maybe we could get off this outhaul nonsense and help him make sure he has a REEF in the mainsail before he goes and scares the daylights outta Jeanette?

 

[Hermit Scott]

There is one reef point. There is a turning block for the aft cringle and some guides to keep the rope going to the mast area.
The wind has died down alot though. Some mornings when we wake up on the boat, the whole bay looks like a sheet of glass. But it's still hot as hell.

 

[RichH]

Some 'sailors' learn about sail trim and others never do. There is no such thing as 'racing trim' or 'cruising trim'. Trim is either right or it's wrong. Learning how to sail means knowing how to adjust your sails for the conditions. Choosing not to make the proper adjustments isn't cruising it's just plain lazy. Not knowing how to trim means you need to learn. After you learn how you will realize that all those strings affect the sails ability to do its job.
Listening to some people makes it sound like sailing is an arduous onerous job. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most sail trim adjustments are quick and easy and only take seconds to accomplish. If I wanted to dwindle my time away not making any trim adjustments I'd have bought a power boat. Just turn the key and go. But I enjoy 'sailing' and I try to do the best job I know how of trimming my sails correctly. That is, after all, what it's all about.

Allan is totally correct.

Even for 'normal' conditions, I perceive that most 'sailors' have little idea of how to 'set' the outhaul: Once you have sail shape and trim to your satisfaction .... simply watch the speedo as you adjust in/out on the outhaul. The boatspeed (on a beat or high close reach) will be at MAXIMUM when the outhaul tension is set correctly. Just adjust in/out while watching the speedo and when the speedo reaches it HIGHEST speed - thats the correct outhaul tension for the present conditions. If you cant easily adjust the outhaul you may be locked in '1st geat' when you want to be in 'high gear' or vice versa.

Outhaul tension is also a matter of safety as well a 'fanatical pursuit of sail trim'. A slow boat, slow because the sails are cross-controlled or mal-trimmed, is more easily 'dumped' when the conditions are 'right' and boisterous. An unwaranted slow boat is also a boat that will be heeled way beyond her normal sailing characteristics - a 'very cranky' (read: dynamically unstable) boat. The ability to easily and effortlessly depower (reduction of sail camber/draft ) is on the the chief benefits of a well working outhaul. I prefer at least 6:1 (or 8:1 on a heavy "kroozer" with the control line all the way back to the cockpit). If you have the ability to pull the outhaul so that the sail shape essentially begins to take the shape of flat sheet of plywood then you can keep sailing (many times) without the need to be 'reefed and still overpowered' by a now unstable/cranky boat. This applies to high speed & planing 'sport-boats' as well as squat & matronly "kroozers".

Without 'adequate' and easily/effortless outhaul adjustment ... you're are 'stuck' with a sail shape that may be the 'worst possible shape' for the wind and seastate conditions. Without outhaul adjustment its like drivng a hot car - stuck in a single gear. Why be limited to a 'single gear' when the outhaul is your 'gear-shift'.

Want to set the outhaul correctly .... go onto a beat and adjust the outhaul versus the SPEEDO. The highest speed will occur at the correct outhaul setting.

 

[Ross]

RichH, How much change in speed can be expected by making all of the adjustments recommended here?. My boat is primitive compared to many of the more detailed layouts that I have seen. My bolt rope is 3/8 inch on the boom and I know that I can't stretch it. I can tighten my main halyard enough to create a few vertical wrinkles. I have a main sheet with no traveler and jibsheets with no cars..

 

[RichH]

Hi Ross -

For sail shaping its not the 'stretch' per se in a foot bolt rope but the amount of 'change of draft' that makes all the difference - difference in heeling moment, difference in speed, etc. etc. That same holds true for a 'taped' foot thats usually found on a loose footed sail.

For relative 'flat water' with few waves one can easily flatten by increased outhaul tension to obtain maybe 8-10% more speed (with less leeward skid) when the conditions permit whats called a 'speed shaped' ('high gear' shape) mainsail. That would be ~2+ hours savings of faster passage on a full day's passage, etc. Consider when the Chesapeake is 'enjoying' a NW blow and due to the limited fetch from the NW there are very small waves.

Conversely, if the outhaul is too tightly set and the there is a high 'chop' running there wont be enough power from the mainsail to *punch* through the chop ... again a speed loss - being in high gear, when you should have been in second gear. Consider when the Ches. has a strong southerly 'sea breeze' and 3-4 ft. steep 'chop' coming UP the bay and you want to go 'south'.

But again this is all 'automatic' if you (after adjusting so that all the tell-tales are flying correctly) THEN adjust the depth of draft via the outhaul VERSUS the boat's speedo.

On 'tender' boats the effects (speed, heeling, etc.) sometime become extreme when one ignores the outhaul ... either heeled over well beyond the normal sailing lines and skidding off to leeward (losing VMG/speed) or alternately not having the power to 'punch' through waves. The outhaul is THE control to adjust for these differences.

So , my guestimate is probably in the range of perhaps 5-10% advantage for a heavy boat, higher in a 'tender' boat. Not adjusting the outhaul would be the same effect as driving an autlo in "2" instead of "D", etc. To me the real plus of easy outhaul adjustment is when the conditions are boisterous and you dont want to reef because youll soon be coming back at some 'downwind' in lower apparent wind speed, ... and then simply 'flatten' the main and 'blade-out' when occasionally overpowered. If you dont have easy and effortless outhaul adjustment .... you just wont do it and then usually 'suffer through' while usually taking much more time in doing so.

 

[Ross]

Thanks, Rich.