Be careful of what lake or waterway you plan to use. The Enviros at Lake Tahoe have banned all 2 strokes. Before launching your engine will be inspected. California has imposed similar restrictions in various places.
Outboard advice
- Thread starter Slogfish
- Start date
My two cents
I have an O'Day 222 and I use a Mercury 8 hp 4 stroke. I know that's a lot of power for a 22 foot boat, but I like the tiller handle control of forward/neutral/reverse. Comes in handy when docking on a canal with swift cross currents. The engine IS heavy, so I had to replace the engine mount with a heavier sprung version.
I have an O'Day 222 and I use a Mercury 8 hp 4 stroke. I know that's a lot of power for a 22 foot boat, but I like the tiller handle control of forward/neutral/reverse. Comes in handy when docking on a canal with swift cross currents. The engine IS heavy, so I had to replace the engine mount with a heavier sprung version.
I had a 6hp sail-drive Tohatsu for my H22'. Always started on the first or second pull. The Sail-drive comes with an alternator to charge the battery. FWIW.
IMHO
I gave up on 2strokes years ago. My vote is for a Yamaha 9.9, long shaft, with sail drive lower unit, mounted on the appropriate Garelick motor mount. Yes it's relatively heavy and the total pkg is pricey but you'll never regret it. Mounted properly it will not come out of the water in trailing seas. The Garelik is spring loaded so hanging over the transom to raise it is not terrifying. A good push sends it down where it belongs. My O'day272 came with one that I used for many years. I even bought a used back up for just in case. It's still sitting on the garage floor. You can also get it in tiller or remote and battery charger. The PO took the tiller off and made a remote that mounted on the boat tiller, SLICK. Use only alcohol-free fuel, premium is better and Sta-Bil great. Look for an area that has a lot of fisherman, ATV's, motor cyclists (on and off road) or snowmobiles. I'm in Wisconsin and it's hard to find a station that doesn't have e-free premium. Since it's not as susceptible to degradation you can afford to stock up when you find it.
Horse power is really up to you. On a balmy day that small unit is great, but ask yourself what would happen if you got in a tight spot. I'm in my second 272 and have a small diesel.( I'm also 70+ and gotten lazy.) A friend has an identical rig on a backwater in Fla, with twice the horsepower. He says he'd never make it past the breakwater with a smaller if the tide is running. My 9.9? It took us across open water on Lake Superior in a 40-50knot headwind. One word of advice on the Yamaha. If it starts acting funny and you know your fuel is clean and dry, check the valve clearances. The first thing the local yard mechanic will do is dump your fuel, change filters and rebuild the carb. A friend lost half the sailing season and several hundred dollars before throwing a fit and forcing the shop to call Yamaha for tech support.
Best of luck and sailng to you.
I gave up on 2strokes years ago. My vote is for a Yamaha 9.9, long shaft, with sail drive lower unit, mounted on the appropriate Garelick motor mount. Yes it's relatively heavy and the total pkg is pricey but you'll never regret it. Mounted properly it will not come out of the water in trailing seas. The Garelik is spring loaded so hanging over the transom to raise it is not terrifying. A good push sends it down where it belongs. My O'day272 came with one that I used for many years. I even bought a used back up for just in case. It's still sitting on the garage floor. You can also get it in tiller or remote and battery charger. The PO took the tiller off and made a remote that mounted on the boat tiller, SLICK. Use only alcohol-free fuel, premium is better and Sta-Bil great. Look for an area that has a lot of fisherman, ATV's, motor cyclists (on and off road) or snowmobiles. I'm in Wisconsin and it's hard to find a station that doesn't have e-free premium. Since it's not as susceptible to degradation you can afford to stock up when you find it.
Horse power is really up to you. On a balmy day that small unit is great, but ask yourself what would happen if you got in a tight spot. I'm in my second 272 and have a small diesel.( I'm also 70+ and gotten lazy.) A friend has an identical rig on a backwater in Fla, with twice the horsepower. He says he'd never make it past the breakwater with a smaller if the tide is running. My 9.9? It took us across open water on Lake Superior in a 40-50knot headwind. One word of advice on the Yamaha. If it starts acting funny and you know your fuel is clean and dry, check the valve clearances. The first thing the local yard mechanic will do is dump your fuel, change filters and rebuild the carb. A friend lost half the sailing season and several hundred dollars before throwing a fit and forcing the shop to call Yamaha for tech support.
Best of luck and sailng to you.
I have a 8 hp, electric start, 4 stroke Mercury of my O'Day 222. It has plenty of power and works well, not only in open water, but also when trying to get back to our mooring ball in the mooring field in 10-15 kt winds. That said, I've come to the conclusion that it is overkill. The motor itself is just about right at 100 lbs. Take into account fuel at 6 lbs per gallon, and you have another 30 lbs. At 130 lbs, its like having a small adult sitting on the starboard of the transom. And, don't forget, the electric start requires a regular size 12 v battery -- another 25+ lbs.
If I were to do it again, which I'm considering, I'd go with a 6-7.5 hp two stroke, and I'm guessing I could cut the weight of the in half.
If I were to do it again, which I'm considering, I'd go with a 6-7.5 hp two stroke, and I'm guessing I could cut the weight of the in half.
I have one of the XL shaft Sailmasters. If I could find somebody to perform some magic on the ol' girl I'd stop looking for a 9.9 four stroke.
The EPA does not arbitrarily ban 2 strokes. Direct injection in a 2 stroke runs cleaner than a 4 stroke. I don't know if anyone is building a small DFI 2 stroke yet, as it runs the cost up, but there are several larger HP ones being built.
As far as a choice, something no one has brought up it the fact that if you swamp a 2 stroke, you can pull the plugs, spin it over, put the plugs back in and you are good to go. Swamp a 4 stroke and you are draining a flushing the oil. No one really plans to capsize, but it seems like the simplicity of recovering a 2 stroke that has been under water would be a significant selling point for a 2 stroke.
As far as a choice, something no one has brought up it the fact that if you swamp a 2 stroke, you can pull the plugs, spin it over, put the plugs back in and you are good to go. Swamp a 4 stroke and you are draining a flushing the oil. No one really plans to capsize, but it seems like the simplicity of recovering a 2 stroke that has been under water would be a significant selling point for a 2 stroke.
I have a 25' Ericson which had a 9.9 long shaft 2 stroke. Over the last several years I spent lots of money get it "fixed." In 2014 I bought a Honda 9.9 4 stroke. Love it, love it. I am seasonal in Florida and even after 5-6 months of not using the motor it starts flawlessly. Yes, I is bigger and heavier than the old 2 stroke, but is quiet, powerful, four prop blade. I always disconnect the fuel line and run on the fuel. And, I always use ethanol-free fuel. Another feature I really, really like is that the motor can be flushed with fresh water with a fitting on the engine. So the motor can be out of the water, don't need to struggle with ear muffs to fit over the intakes at the bottom of the shaft, and can flush very efficiently. Motor was not/is not cheap.....but for my money well worth it for the decreased hassles, and reliability. Jim S.
I recently upgraded from a 4 HP two-stroke to a Tohatsu 6 HP SailPro four-stroke on my Catalina 22. Although it's a little heavier, it's a great little engine, quieter than the 4, and it has the added advantage of an alternator for battery charging.
When I still owned my Chrysler 22, the last outboard I owned was a Yamaha 8 hp, 4 stroke, with all the bells and whistles...electric start, extra long shaft, extended tiller with shifter and it was high thrust to boot. Since my hull speed was 6.8 kts., going for a 9.9 hp would have been a waste. This 8 hp gave me hull speed as well as plenty of power to maneuver close in. The boat weighed in at 3,600 bare. Four strokes are dramatically quieter than 2 strokes, so you know what my favorite was. The motor used an average of 3/4 gallon per hour of full throttle running. I managed 1/2 gallon per hour at about half throttle doing about 6 knots on the bay. Keep in mind that I sail the New York bite which has somewhat comparible conditions as SanFrancisco bay. Currents can be a problem and combined with wind, dictates a need for a little more power. The Yamaha 8 had no problems.Good Luck and Happy Sailing.
Yeah, let's talk about big elephant ear props
I have a '06 Honda 5hp that replaced the '00 Johnson 2 stroke 4hp that came with the boat (C22). I did like the fact that the Johnson was a 2 cylinder, but didn't like the fact that it had no reverse. When I thought the motor was dying, I bought the Honda, but it turned out to be only an ethanol problem. Fresh, STABILIZED fuel has it starting on one pull. I do like the new Honda for it's reverse, but it's probably 25 lbs. heavier and I've gained very little power. If it were me, I would probably go with the 4 stroke because some areas are now banning the 2 strokes (I hear). I think a 9.9 would be awfully heavy for your 21 footer, especially with electric start.
What is the payback for using a big elephant ear prop? Less ultimate speed? Or something else?
I have a '06 Honda 5hp that replaced the '00 Johnson 2 stroke 4hp that came with the boat (C22). I did like the fact that the Johnson was a 2 cylinder, but didn't like the fact that it had no reverse. When I thought the motor was dying, I bought the Honda, but it turned out to be only an ethanol problem. Fresh, STABILIZED fuel has it starting on one pull. I do like the new Honda for it's reverse, but it's probably 25 lbs. heavier and I've gained very little power. If it were me, I would probably go with the 4 stroke because some areas are now banning the 2 strokes (I hear). I think a 9.9 would be awfully heavy for your 21 footer, especially with electric start.
I've been very happy with my Yamaha 8hp 4-stroke. I've used it 7 years now without any issues. Changed the impeller every other year and oil & lube. I replaced the standard prop with a Dual-Thrust prop for greatly improved manuverability at the dock. Now reverse actually feels like it's doing something. 
For what it's worth, the only time I run the bowl dry is at the end of the season before storing. Always starts first or second pull, even first thing in the spring.
Hope that helps.
JerryA
For what it's worth, the only time I run the bowl dry is at the end of the season before storing. Always starts first or second pull, even first thing in the spring.Hope that helps.
JerryA
Lots of good advice. A hundred horsepower won't do any good when the wind is up a bit, there's a current on and you are throttled way down, trying to ease up to a dock, wait for a bridge to open. Practice, practice, practice. You need 5 at most, and if you go with the 4 stroke, it will bring the weight down to something that may still work on your current engine mount. Pay special attention to Crazy Dave's remarks about using real, un-oxygenated (no ethanol) gas. Stay away from the ethanol blends.
More thoughts.
1st, on the prop, a small engine is spec'd with a speed prop, for getting a small jon-boat style boat moving and up on plane, where the speed can match the RPM better. In our boats, which are displacement craft, the water never get flowing past the prop fast enough for it to turn higher RPM. Also the factory prop is designed with swept blades, for turning higher RPM without much cavitation. Putting on a high-thrust prop improves several things. The lower pitch allows the motor to turn at a higher RPM while driving the displacement hull. This could adversely affect fuel efficiency, but then again I don't know that running the motor at WOT and not turning more than 2100 RPM is working in the most effective power range. The elephant ears are designed to throw more water more effectively at lower speeds. Also, the typical high-thrust prop is also a larger diameter than the stock speed prop, again allowing it to push more water. This, of course, makes the motor more effective in reverse, and slowing the boat down.
As for running the carb empty at the end of use, there are 2 schools of thought on this. 1st school says run it out, and you'll get the gas out of the carb so that it doesn't evaporate and varnish up. The 2nd school says that it's nigh impossible to run the bowl completely dry, so you'll be leaving a small quantity of gas in the bowl, which is MORE prone to evaporating out and varnishing up the carb.
I have run 2 seasons now with my 2nd hand Tohatsu 5hp 4 stroke, and I have not been running the carb out. However, I also run the motor about an average of twice a week, sometimes more often if I can get to the boat for an evening sail after work. I think this frequency of use allows for fresh gas to flush through the carb, and not become adversely oxidized. I think if I were only able to use the boat every 3 weeks or so, running the carb dry might be better for it.
Granddad ran the gas out on his Johnson 90hp 2 stroke, and I don't recall him having to clean the carb... He ran the boat every week to 2 weeks. Certainly a '63 2 stroke did NOT have as small idle jets as today's small 4 stroke engines
1st, on the prop, a small engine is spec'd with a speed prop, for getting a small jon-boat style boat moving and up on plane, where the speed can match the RPM better. In our boats, which are displacement craft, the water never get flowing past the prop fast enough for it to turn higher RPM. Also the factory prop is designed with swept blades, for turning higher RPM without much cavitation. Putting on a high-thrust prop improves several things. The lower pitch allows the motor to turn at a higher RPM while driving the displacement hull. This could adversely affect fuel efficiency, but then again I don't know that running the motor at WOT and not turning more than 2100 RPM is working in the most effective power range. The elephant ears are designed to throw more water more effectively at lower speeds. Also, the typical high-thrust prop is also a larger diameter than the stock speed prop, again allowing it to push more water. This, of course, makes the motor more effective in reverse, and slowing the boat down.
As for running the carb empty at the end of use, there are 2 schools of thought on this. 1st school says run it out, and you'll get the gas out of the carb so that it doesn't evaporate and varnish up. The 2nd school says that it's nigh impossible to run the bowl completely dry, so you'll be leaving a small quantity of gas in the bowl, which is MORE prone to evaporating out and varnishing up the carb.
I have run 2 seasons now with my 2nd hand Tohatsu 5hp 4 stroke, and I have not been running the carb out. However, I also run the motor about an average of twice a week, sometimes more often if I can get to the boat for an evening sail after work. I think this frequency of use allows for fresh gas to flush through the carb, and not become adversely oxidized. I think if I were only able to use the boat every 3 weeks or so, running the carb dry might be better for it.
Granddad ran the gas out on his Johnson 90hp 2 stroke, and I don't recall him having to clean the carb... He ran the boat every week to 2 weeks. Certainly a '63 2 stroke did NOT have as small idle jets as today's small 4 stroke engines
Is this your speculation or is there a link? It’s interesting but I just don’t think it’s correct (I don’t have a link either). The idea that the prop might be cavitating could be somewhat plausible if the hp delivered were on the order of 10X but we are only talking about a 5 to 10 hp outboard here.
I got sold on what you are saying at one time from internet posts so have tried both high thrust and conventional swept back props and just don’t think its true at all that the swept back conventional blade prop cavitate. When props cavitate, you can feel it in a loss of power. I have a 9.8 hp with a conventional swept back blade prop and have slowly increased the throttle to see if some sort of cavatation can be felt - I’m fairly sure it just doesn’t happen.
I have also measured peak speed with both types of props on the same outboard / boat over a month period. The high thrust prop got the top speed of the boat about 4% higher. I.e., both props took the boat to theoretical hull speed. I think the high thrust prop got the boat up to slightly higher speed just because it allowed the outboard to turn at a higher rpm where it developed a little more hp. The high thrust prop however resulted in a lot more noise and vibration also because of the higher rpm. I took it off the outboard and went back to the conventional prop.
Any measured data saying the high thrust prop does something better on the displacement hull in forward and on these small hp outboards?
High thrust props are clearly better in reverse.
I had a MacGregor 26S put a Honda 9.9 XL with power thrust and auto tilt. Sold boat two years later and offered price with Honda outboard and without, sold boat with in one week.
1. Wife & Kids can lower and raise motor with power tilt easily.
2. Power thrust and 4 blade prop stop you on a dime in R.
3. Resale is awesome on Honda Motors and reliability is well known.
4. Warranty is the best.
5. 4 stroke will be heavy but nice not to have to mix the oil.
6. Gas milage is great, motored 85 miles to Chicago and back used 4.5 gal rt.
Everyone has their opinion so this is mine, hope it helped.
1. Wife & Kids can lower and raise motor with power tilt easily.
2. Power thrust and 4 blade prop stop you on a dime in R.
3. Resale is awesome on Honda Motors and reliability is well known.
4. Warranty is the best.
5. 4 stroke will be heavy but nice not to have to mix the oil.
6. Gas milage is great, motored 85 miles to Chicago and back used 4.5 gal rt.
Everyone has their opinion so this is mine, hope it helped.
I just bought a new 8 hp tohatsu with electric start from online outboards for 1899.00 brand new 5 yr warranty, no tax and free shipping and it is wonderful on my 25 mac
OMC corp, most recent manufacturer of Johnson outboards, went bankrupt, and was acquired by Bombardier Recreational Products of Canada. BRP stopped making Johnsons in 2007, and now focuses solely on Evinrudes. They are definitely making clean burning fuel and oil injection 2 strokes, but only in larger HP offerings. They still sell small 4 stroke engines, such as this 6HP suitable for a Sirius 21. http://www.evinrude.com/en-us/engines/portable_engines/6r4 I do not know, but it sure looks like this could be a re-branded Tohatsu. Looks like a Tohatsu to me.