Only took me 8 years to figure this out

Benny17441 · Aug 11, 2018

Run the bitter end first through the hole or just twist the line before attaching the loop to the horns on the cleat. 1" line is a bit heavy but depends on prevalent or anticipated conditions. 8 years, you kidding?

Simon Sexton · Aug 11, 2018

@artboas ,

Weirdly, most of the larger vessels I sail on are classically designed, so we typically use belaying pins and bits to make fast most of our dock lines. In the circumstance of dealing with larger cleats, however, I have sailed a Hunter 450 Passage that had those cleats on the abaft, beam, and forward gunwales. I had the same problem of not being able to fit the eye splice through the hole at the bottom, and just ended up putting the loop over the cleat and then, after the boat was stopped, adjusting the line from the dock. To avoid this inconvenience, we usually keep the dock lines attached to the boat and just jump onto the dock with them to secure them as we come into the slip.
I'm curious to hear about your method, though! Please, do tell!

jon hansen · Aug 11, 2018

i was trained differently, both by my father and then on commercial vessels. the eye splice on a mooring line goes on the dock, never on the vessel. this is done so that all lines are controlled from the vessel where the captain and the crew are. no need to leap to dock in a storm, or ....

when someone helps take lines when docking the control stays with the crew, not the unknown nice helper on the dock.
easy peezey, all the controls stay on board.

on ships the control is always on the vessel.

i think it's the best way to go.

just how i was trained. it's always worked best for me.

my $0.02

Benny17441 · Aug 11, 2018

jon hansen said:
i was trained differently, both by my father and then on commercial vessels. the eye splice on a mooring line goes on the dock, never on the vessel. this is done so that all lines are controlled from the vessel where the captain and the crew are.

You are correct but in today's pleasure boating the majority of boats return to the same dock they departed from, there is usually no dockhands to handle the lines and it is very convenient to keep the lines length preset. It is more convenient to leave the lines on the dock and when you return to use a pole to retrieve them, than having to jump off the boat. For these reason the eye splice is commonly set to be used on the boat's cleats. I have seen the problem and it is mostly that boat owners think their boat's commands a much thicker dock line than necessary. Perhaps in an exposed mooring open to weather a heavier line is required but there is no necessity to run the line under the cleat as twisting it and placing it over the horns will keep it in place.

Roland5048 · Aug 11, 2018

When I was at a fixed dock, most of my lines were tied on deck cleats so I could adjust according to tides. I couldn't always reach the pylon to adjust. I am now on a floating dock and because the dock and boat are always at the same level all the time, the eye splice goes on the boat. Much easier when leaving and coming back. See @Benny17441 for his explanation. No need to repeat.

Roland5048 · Aug 11, 2018

artboas said:
And when you try to put the eye splice loop of a pre-fab 1" mooring line through it, you need about 5 minutes of wiggling, pushing, and finally forcing it through so that you can loop the splice eye over the cleat.
And it's a major tug fest trying to get the line back off the cleat again

One inch line? Just how big are those cleats, anyway?

Stu Jackson · Aug 11, 2018

Why are you even thinking of putting the eye splice through the hole? The eye splice goes over the cleat. Done. If I need control on the boat, I run the lines back. My docklines at my slip stay there so they are always perfect - floating dock, though. Only one that always stays with me is the portside midship spring line - I use that coming into my slip.

justsomeguy · Aug 11, 2018

C'mon @artboas !

thinwater · Aug 11, 2018

In my case I have one cleat where I have to attach 2 lines (odd slip, lots of beam).

I put a large Dyneema soft shackle through both eyes with webbing chafe gear. A spliced loop also works. Easy and just as strong. The Dyneema loop fits very easily.

Good for storm rigging too, where you need to add extra lines.

Will Gilmore · Aug 11, 2018

I'm a slip hitch fan. Pull a piece of standing line through the eye for a slippery loop, drop over the cleat and pull tight under both horns. I know a lot of fishermen who use the method of running the line under the far horn and looping the eye over the near horn. I have rarely seen the eye run through the bridge between the cleat posts and loop it back.
I like my way because it is easy, it won't just get kicked loose when no pressure is on the line, and it will come undone no matter how much load has been on the line in the interim.

- Will (Dragonfly)

weinie · Aug 11, 2018

what stu says.
I grew up power boating as a kid, and we always ran the loop through the cleat and wrapped it back over. When I bought my first sailboat years ago, I learned a lot from the old salt mechanic in the marina. He convinced me that was unnecessary. I didn't believe him but he made me a bet that if any of those lines ever comes off a cleat on it's own, he'd buy me a brand new boat. Years later, even through storms and a hurricane, not one ever came off on it's own.

quadrille38 · Aug 11, 2018

weinie said:
what stu says.
I grew up power boating as a kid, and we always ran the loop through the cleat and wrapped it back over. When I bought my first sailboat years ago, I learned a lot from the old salt mechanic in the marina. He convinced me that was unnecessary. I didn't believe him but he made me a bet that if any of those lines ever comes off a cleat on it's own, he'd buy me a brand new boat. Years later, even through storms and a hurricane, not one ever came off on it's own.

Totally ageee. From observation and having been sailing for nearly 40 years it was an observation and a bit of a standing joke that power boaters put the line through the hole in the cleat, sailors do not.

In fact former power boaters just bought a sail boat and put it in the slip next to us. First thing they did when securing the boat was to run the line through the base of the cleat. I happened to hear the broker talk to them and politely say that the first thing we need learn is that you do not push the line through the cleat.

However I will confess that when traveling to a vacation marina I have put the line through the hole. Why ? Because the loop is large and I’ve had them come off the cleat as I was throwing the line to the person on the dock. Keeps it from coming of at a really bad time. But once secured I undo the loop and put it back the correct way.

FDL S2 · Aug 11, 2018

artboas said:
So, how many 45/ 49 /50 owners have the large cleats with the hole in the bottom?
And when you try to put the eye splice loop of a pre-fab 1" mooring line through it, you need about 5 minutes of wiggling, pushing, and finally forcing it through so that you can loop the splice eye over the cleat.
And it's a major tug fest trying to get the line back off the cleat again

Well, I have the painless 5 second method.
Has anyone else figured this out? I'll check for responses before I post it.

Hook the loop on the cleat and wrap the loop around again.

thinwater · Aug 11, 2018

weinie said:
what stu says.
I grew up power boating as a kid, and we always ran the loop through the cleat and wrapped it back over. When I bought my first sailboat years ago, I learned a lot from the old salt mechanic in the marina. He convinced me that was unnecessary. I didn't believe him but he made me a bet that if any of those lines ever comes off a cleat on it's own, he'd buy me a brand new boat. Years later, even through storms and a hurricane, not one ever came off on it's own.

Not 100% true. I've had them slip off stern cleats twice (fortunately I was there--I just dropped the loops over the cleats while attaching other lines). The cleats are on a slope and it depends on the angle of pull, slack, and the sequence of waves. If I only place the loop over the cleat, it is a virtual certainty that within a few hours one of the horns will be free. A certainty.

A wrap around is much better. No reason not to. But with a sloped cleat one horn will still come off, and then there is chafe, as the line moves back and forth across the horn. I've seen this too.

This is probably mostly a sloped deck problem. However, I can also imagine it is happening if the line is coming down from above. Take your chances. You'll probably be fine. Old salts have many opinions that are true "within their experience."

No, I am not a beginner or a closet powerboater. Pushing a loop through is very common among sailors here.

Pearson 39-II · Aug 11, 2018

artboas said:
Ok?
Really good comments.
I 100% agree that just leaving a large loop on a cleat is asking for problems, especially if you're going to heave the line.
I'm going to wait one day, and post a very cool solution to a stubborn problem

Drop the eye spliced loop over the cleat, under the horns, then lash the loop closed with braided small stuff so it cannot pop back off the cleat.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?attachments/jam-cleat-mooring-hitch-001-jpg.40041/
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?attachments/jam-cleat-mooring-hitch-004-jpg.40042/

justsomeguy · Aug 11, 2018

Pearson 39-II said:
Drop the eye spliced loop over the cleat, under the horns, then lash the loop closed with braided small stuff so it cannot pop back off the cleat.

artboas said:
the painless 5 second method.

Pearson 39-II · Aug 11, 2018

As it's my dock line or mooring pendant I leave the small stuff made up to the eye. Drop and lash - 4 seconds tops!

justsomeguy · Aug 11, 2018

Pearson 39-II said:
Drop and lash - 4 seconds tops!

Video or it didn't happen!

Only took me 8 years to figure this out

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.