Older Car 27: any ideas on how to open up the space?

[Qorgyle]

You don't know it yet but you have bigger fish to fry than interior modification, here's a few things to check more closely, there are others.
Electrical
Engine Wiring Harness Upgrade for Universal Diesel Engines
Standing rigging:
Stainless Steel Crevice Corrosion
Spreader Bracket Retrofit Kits for the Catalina 22, Catalina 25, and Catalina 27
Lashing the Upper Shrouds to the Spreader Tips

Glad I peeked in this thread, putting those spreader brackets on the list for my C25 next year.

 

[JBP-PA]

You could keep the bulkhead, but still open up the space like this. You'd probably still be a compression post or beam.

 

[xavpil]

You could keep the bulkhead, but still open up the space like this. You'd probably still be a compression post or beam.
View attachment 210603

Totally! That's what I had in mind. I know I should keep part of the bulkheads, no doubt.
This is definitely a nice example . Thx!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Wow!!
Ok. I’m selling my boat

If you are selling your boat, such a modification would probably ruin the value. Actually, I think the interior layout is one of the more attractive features of those older Catalina 27s. If that first picture, with the blue seat cushions, is your boat, there is no way in the world I would start butchering that interior. I would only try it on one that is already trashed.

 

[jssailem]

@Scott T-Bird
I think the
"Wow!!
Ok. I’m selling my boat "
Was one of those utterances that occur when new boat owners discover there were compromises made when the boat of their dreams was built.

I agree that the Catalina 27 has a nice traditional set up for day and weekend sailors. They have been proven good sail boats that let the owner transition from dinghy sailing to a bigger and more complex sailing experience.

There are some structural design considerations necessary before you warm up the saws-all and jump into the cabin.

The bulkheads you X'd are positioned to provide structure for the hull.

In these to images you can see the design of the port/starboard shrouds. They not only hold the mast laterally in place they draw the hull upwards against the mast. The mast is forced downwards against the keel transferring the forces of the sail to the hull. Those bulkheads press outward against the hull to maintain the structure and shape of the hull. Remove them or weaken them and the hull will fold inwards causing the boat to fail like a house of cards.

Note how the shrouds attach on either side of the bulkheads. The bulkhead on the right serves to enclose the head but it also serves to strengthen the cabin roof holding up the mast and hold out the hull from collapsing due to the connection of the shrouds.

 

[jon hansen]

some thoughts for sailing on lake michigan: it's fresh water, all your metal parts are prolly in good shape.
your boat is 42 years old and is a standard production vessel, the guy that desgned your boat understood a sailor's needs. it's a nice boat.
the bulkheads are 8mm thick but over 2' wide.
fiberglass is flexable, you want all the stiffeners in place. they keep your rig stiff.
the ladies need to pee every 1/2 hour and they will prefer the privacy. their daughters are worse
the largest thunderstorms on the planet are on the great plains of n. america and after 60 years of watching, they seem to bullseye milwaukee more than the rest of the state. just what i've seen
'strong like bull' boats are the best. do not weaken your vessel.
do not misunderstand, you live where it's some of the best sailing on the globe. the prevailing winds are off shore.
wanna upgrade your boat? get some brand new, top of the line sails.
the captain spends all his time in the cockpit. when your asleep, the cabin layout means nothing. you will spend very little time below.
newbees always want to change the interior and sail around with old baggy sails. get the sailing part dialed in first.
get a folding prop
get the bottom smooth
rudder too
dodgers and biminis are slow. buy a nice jacket and hat instead
your anchor and rode are your emergency brake.
if you sail up to sturge, look me up
the average winds in milwaukee are stronger than san francisico bay.
keep your boat as strong as you can
and most of all, have fun

jon

 

[kappykaplan]

and most of all, have fun

 

[xavpil]

some thoughts for sailing on lake michigan:
jon

thanks Jon. Those were well explained thoughts. after all the comments I received I will on,y paint and won’t touch anything.
The upgrades you mentioned are definitely something I’ll look into once I sailed a little more

 

[xavpil]

@Scott T-Bird
I think the
"Wow!!
Ok. I’m selling my boat "
Was one of those utterances that occur when new boat owners discover there were compromises made when the boat of their dreams was built.

I agree that the Catalina 27 has a nice traditional set up for day and weekend sailors. They have been proven good sail boats that let the owner transition from dinghy sailing to a bigger and more complex sailing experience.

There are some structural design considerations necessary before you warm up the saws-all and jump into the cabin.

The bulkheads you X'd are positioned to provide structure for the hull.

In these to images you can see the design of the port/starboard shrouds. They not only hold the mast laterally in place they draw the hull upwards against the mast. The mast is forced downwards against the keel transferring the forces of the sail to the hull. Those bulkheads press outward against the hull to maintain the structure and shape of the hull. Remove them or weaken them and the hull will fold inwards causing the boat to fail like a house of cards.

Note how the shrouds attach on either side of the bulkheads. The bulkhead on the right serves to enclose the head but it also serves to strengthen the cabin roof holding up the mast and hold out the hull from collapsing due to the connection of the shrouds.

Thanks so much for the detailed explaaction. You made a bulkhead-strong case

 

[Scott T-Bird]

@Scott T-Bird
I think the
"Wow!!
Ok. I’m selling my boat "
Was one of those utterances that occur when new boat owners discover there were compromises made when the boat of their dreams was built.

Well of course I knew he was saying it tongue-in-cheek. I was just taking the opportunity to say that he would absolutely destroy the value of his boat. Also, @jon hansen made at least one point that should absolutely not be dismissed ... it would be the utmost folly to eliminate a perfectly good head!

 

[sesmith]

some thoughts for sailing on lake michigan:
dodgers and biminis are slow. buy a nice jacket and hat instead
jon

Only a guy without a cockpit enclosure would say such a thing

The new canvas and complete cockpit surround was probably the 2nd best upgrade we did to our boat (the new sails were the best but my wife might disagree with that order). Bad weather doesn't slow us down, we don't suffer from the sun or the cold, and we're sailing in t-shirts when other's, if they're out at all, are in their foul weather gear. It keeps most of those pesky biting flies at bay, and during a midge hatch, we're mostly midge free as others are slipping and sliding on midges under foot.

If you're spending time cruising and anchoring interior comfort is high on the list, as well. So a comfortable cabin makes a boat liveable when we spend a couple of months or so on it at a time.

So I'll take comfort over a bit more speed every time.

For the OP, don't mess with your bulkheads. Make the most of the boat you have, but get what you really want on the next one.

 

[jon hansen]

So I'll take comfort over a bit more speed every time.

you can't do the appalachian trail in a RV.

sailing aeolus: my 66' alden. with 49 seasons on the lakes i have not sailed one mile with an auto pilot. i carry 5 jibs, 3 spinnakers, 2 staysails. the main, mizzen, and #3 jib are rated to 60 knot winds. there are no electronics on the binacle. we play in all weather on the lakes. the helmsman drives, the navigator calls the direction, the crew keeps watch. i sail with a full crew, always. in dead calm we motor, with an autopilot. we don't care about day or night, we sail the weather patterns. we prefer to be in port during the day while usually on the move at night when we can. the lakes are such a great playground for a wind toy.

we all here like what we like. it's all good. i know most of you do not campaign your vessels like i do. on the ships, we ran day and night between ports. pull into port, onload/offload and leave.

sailing at night in the n channel or georgian bay at night with a dodger and bimini and side curtains would be undoable. or without a crew. i remember once leaving little currant town dock, at dusk, back when the kids were small, and this woman from a nieghboring yacht was screaming at me that i was going to kill those kids. we were heading up to mcgregor bay on a night sail. acting like a total newbie i said "noone said i couldn't". sail at night that is.

we play the wind, we play the waves, we sail the boat to it's optimum. sail in and out of every nook and cranny

i prefer a roadster to a coup or a winnebago, but that's just me. my Ascow is open and no keel. 38', no engine, docking is a hoot. it too takes a crew. the kids cal20 has no engine either. got to teach them young.

side note: my formula ocean racer has a bimini and full side and front and back incloser. the speed boat guys laugh at me. but i like it when i'm salmon fishing. the fish guys think that's odd. fishing with an ocean racer that is, but running 30 mile offshore for the summer steelhead is easy and quick.

with over 1,000,000 miles at sea and highly trained, and loving sailing for 63 years now, i know i'm the odd duck here on this web sight. i like all the options of sailing these toys. i love pushing the boats hard. just like i learned how to ski the black diamond , yellow diamond, out of bounce runs on the ski mountains back in the day. those days are over.

then there's the frank bethwaite book. don't just race, win! ... but that's another story. you got to know the wind so to catch it all.

jon

 

[jon hansen]

back in 76' i was home from the ships. the boat was at NCYC on lake erie. it was prefrontal. we sailed with 25 knt s winds up to lake huron. kept going cause it switched to 15knt w winds and the wind held and our first dock was at okeechobee lodge. motored over to little current and tied up on the wall. a front went through and it piped up to 35 out of the east and we left at noon. everyone else was hunkered in for the blow. heavy low clouds but no rain. sailed west, went out into the big lake at false detour the back in at detour and all the way up to the soo before the wind died. then it was off on superior for a month. what a sail on the way north. only can done with a crew.

that's a once in a life time weather pattern that was going my way


jon