OK, so I'm Sanding My Bottom...

[Squidd]

But I'm from the Midwest and not so sure what I'm looking at...(all we paint out here is houses barns and tractors...)

Is this supposed to be so "lumpy"...

Doesn't look like any "paint" I've ever seen before... It looks "thick"... like an 1/8" thick and like it was put on with a spatula and back brushed with a whisk broom...that's just the "Red" layer...

And it's "Soft" almost chalky or powdery...some of it flakes off (in the blistery ares and the "layered" areas.. and then the rest is stuck on tight...

Below that is a light blue/gray also "Thick" powdery layer...

I think it had popped blisters as well and then the red went over that...

Below the Gray is a greenish chopped fiberglass layer that is hard...
The whole thing down to Glass is almost 1 1/4" thick...

But you can see some of the red also goes all the way down to the glass matt..

So what do I got here and what do I do with it...??

I'm thinking continue sanding all the blisters/bubbles down to the green glass matt and then fair and fill with some sort of epoxy/poly "filler"...?

Then fair the bulk of the bottom to smooth out the "lumps...

Prime (type) ??

Bottom paint...

What I'm looking for is advice on getting it to the "primed" stage...There's enough arguments/threads on bottom paint choices already...

 

[DeniseO30]

OMG!, is it possible someone actually buttered the bottom with bondo or some other type of "outdoor" but not below waterline type of filler? 2 words come to mind. "bottom peel"
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But you can see some of the red also goes all the way down to the glass matt..
could be red Gel coat for the boot stripe and bottom.
I just saw that on a friends Pearson 26,

So what do I got here and what do I do with it...??
A real mess! but it's all fixable with modern epoxies, fillers, cloth and lots of labor.


I'm thinking continue sanding all the blisters/bubbles down to the green glass matt and then fair and fill with some sort of epoxy/poly "filler"...?
It looks like someone used a bad mix of filler or the wrong kind, and just ground and ground the blisters to and into the substrate. (glass)


Then fair the bulk of the bottom to smooth out the "lumps...
You can get it smooth as a babies bum if you have the time. and long board sanders.

Prime (type) ??
epoxy and even cloth if the structure is compromised. some use filler under the new cloth some on top. It's a big job in every case. then after it's all fair and true. use barrier coat.

Bottom paint...
bottom paints don't seal from water intrusion. they keep slime managable.

What I'm looking for is advice on getting it to the "primed" stage...There's enough arguments/threads on bottom paint choices already...
yes, there are volumes written on just what you need to fix.

 

[higgs]

Tough to say w/o actually being there. It is not surprising to find a lumpy mess on a boat this age as bottom paint can build up quite a bit. The blisters you speak could be of concern depending on what comes out of them when you pop them and what lies underneath them and how many of them you encounter. You speak of fiberglass matt being exposed and that is probably not a good thing, though some of the early 60s boats did not gel coat below the water line so when taken to bare bottom one would see fiberglass cloth with a resin overcoating. I believe your Paceship is 70s vintage and I would guess the bottom would be gel coat.

Are you finding areas of gel coat and then areas of fiberglass cloth or matt?

I spent some time in Eagle River 45 years ago and had a great time.

 

[Squidd]

The "gel coat" if there is one is whats throwing me...

I would assume the ablative coat(s) <red> would be soft and when sanding I should "hit" a hard coat layer (gel coat) but it just kind of mixes and blends with the gray coat and then bango...glass matt...??

Here's a couple more shots...where you can see glass and depthe of "gray matter"

Blisters aren't "watery" blisters more like air bubbles between layers...and then when they open, they kinda peel away at the edges to become open "sores"..

Some in the red just down to gray... and some in gray that were covered by red...

And a couple that went thru both layers down to glass m matt

 

[Ross]

I am going to give you a bunch of terms to work with, I would trowel an epoxy filler over the bottom with a "VEE NOTCH TROWEL" .( think ceramic tile setting)Then I would use a LONG BOARD( flexible 2 inches wide and 3 feet long covered with coarse sand paper) to FAIR the ridges. When the ridges are all smooth trowel on a second coat to just fill the grooves left by the first trowel. Some of the ridges will be quite deep and some will sand down quite shallow.

 

[higgs]

I am no expert. It looks like your gel coat has a lot of voids and for some reason has has torn/worn away. What about using West Eposxy with a filler to fill in where the gel coat seems to be gone and then go over the entire surface with another coat of West to fill in those voids? I really am not sure.

 

[Squidd]

I think what I want to do for now is get it patched back up, Faired out and waterproofed... Slap a hard coat on and go sailing...


Then next Fall I can get it soda blasted and have all winter to clean it up and do it right...

So let's figure out what kinda epoxy "patching" need to do so I can put a barrier coat on and a bottom paint on...

 

[Ross]

You will be throwing good money after bad if you short cut. The proceedure I outlined will take no more than a week and it will be done. You have already done most of the work.

 

[DeniseO30]

water froze and lifted the gelcoat (or whatever it is) off in sheets making big bubbles kind of like when water gets under a flat roof. It's all going to have to be taken down to solid fiberglass. Looks like someone kept grinding deep into it on some spots.
Ross is right on. I would only add a lesson from autobody workers and use a sureform type shaver to remove the high spots just after the epoxy filler is set but not rock hard. Use microfibers for filling large depressions then use a softer filler to do the fairing. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/how-to-use/

 

[Squidd]

I agree with what your saying Ross.. to patch up the holes and fair it out for now...

What kind of epoxy "filler" do you reccomend and what type of barrier coat/primer/hard coat do I put over it...?

 

[DeniseO30]

The gel plane from a co in the UK is over 1400 dollars, this is around 500 still allot of $$
http://paintpro.net/Articles/PP803/PP803-Products-Paintshaver.cfm

 

[Squidd]

water froze and lifted the gelcoat (or whatever it is) off in sheets making big bubbles kind of like when water gets under a flat roof. It's all going to have to be taken down to solid fiberglass. Looks like someone kept grinding deep into it on some spots.

I agree too, like I said I can get it blasted down to bare glass next fall and and lightly fair with proper materials on a clean base over the winter... I am fortunate to have indoor space to work in...

 

[higgs]

I am pretty much in agreement with Ross. I would first fill in the pits where the gel coat is gone with West Epoxy and a filler. After that I would use the same mixture to overrun the entire bottom to fill those voids in the gel coat. Smooth it down , paint, and go.

 

[DeniseO30]

Squiidd if your unsure.. visit an auto body shop.. they use the same principals.. just softer materials. this is handy if you can afford one. http://www.shopping.com/Dynabrade-17-Long-Board-Recprocating-Sander/info

Also, when you do finally get into epoxy mixing and using fillers. remember micro fibers (cabosil) = hard as stone near impossible to sand. fairing putty(microballons) = soft. for fairing and non structural filling.

 

[Ross]

I believe that if you do a creditable job now you won't have to take it down to glass later. There is no benefit but there is substantial cost. You have it down to a solid substrate. Work from there and bring it back to fair. The material needed is probably much less than five gallons. The advise of doing some of the fairing when the epoxy is semihard is good advise. I often do that with wood fillers.

 

[Tim R.]

If you are willing to take the loss on labor and some materials, patch it now. In the fall remove all the bad stuff down to the glass mat common surface. Remove any blisters and let it sit as is all winter to dry out. Build it back up with fairing and barrier in the spring.

 

[Bob J.]

Squid,

That's some nasty looking stuff. The boat is out of the water, it's under cover, mast is unstepped. Don't band aid it just so you can sail this year. It will cost you a lot more to do it later than now.

 

[Squidd]

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/blisters.htm

After reading some of these commentaries, I'm left wondering if there is a "do it right" solution....

In which case whatever I do will be the correct responce...

 

[Ross]

You can: restore the bottom to like new
Or you can make it fair and smooth
Or you can use it just like it is now.
I would go for the second option.

 

[Squidd]

That's the effect I'm going for...

After reading Pascoe's bleak outlook on blister repair I'm actually a bit more at ease with what can and can't be done and how much effort to put into it...