Official Findings of Yacht Agean - "It Went Aground"

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Feb 6, 1998
11,703
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
US Sailing has completed their investigations into the Hunter 37 Agean where four racers were killed. Not run down by a tanker, they simply ran into one of the Coronado islands.. USCG is still actively investigating and has yet to release their official position...

Agean Accident Investigation
 

BillyK

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Jan 24, 2010
502
Catalina 310 Ocean City, NJ
Terrible.. I looked on google earth and its just a rock sticking out of the middle of the ocean. At night anyone could hit it.. speaks to the safety radar provides..
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,080
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
A tragedy indeed..I feel for the families and friends ..
I am surprised that no (reported) diving has been completed at the wreck site. The water is not all that deep .. Seems that a good bit of debris would have settled right there and the conclusion would have been easier to grasp.???
Certainly still looks like a cardinal rule of electronic navigation was violated; that is : "Don't put in an autopilot waypoint that you don't want to hit!" OR "Always put in waypoints that are close to, but not ON, a physical feature"..
Learned that early on when a buddy had skillfully and very accurately put in each west side Houston Ship Channel marker .. Otto, driving the Sabre 38, wanted to whack each one on the way to Galveston..
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,184
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I think some of us who went through that debris field well southwest of the Spot impact point and observed how pulverized and small the pieces were and the reported condition of the human remains and the blunt force trauma causation will feel more convinced when there is a keel, rig and/or engine located. Right now, it is no more than the observed track we all saw which by itself looks obvious without the complicating factors.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
IFF the skipper had "done" the newport to ensenada race in past, as was reported, and IFF the same skipper had sailed those waters, he KNEW those islands are there--he fouled up.
they are large and they are on charts. they are also visible in daylight for many miles. there is also no ground to go aground on--is all cliffs and rocks.
this was a very very sad event.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
Radar = safety?

Terrible.. I looked on google earth and its just a rock sticking out of the middle of the ocean. At night anyone could hit it.. speaks to the safety radar provides..
Radar is certainly a good tool for the arsenal, but I would hardly say it would have necessarily made a difference here. It appears that either no one was on watch, or whoever was on watch was either not paying attention or somehow incapacitated.

We have sailed without radar for nearly 20 years, both racing and cruising, sometimes in very thick fog, and in a region known for lots of hard bits. Somehow we have managed to avoid plowing into islands and ledges.

We've got radar on the boat we have now, but haven't played with it at all. It's an older unit. At some point (in good visibility) we really need to fire it up and get familiar with it. But if/when we do, I don't expect it to save my life.
 

LuzSD

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Feb 21, 2009
1,009
Catalina 30 San Diego/ Dana Point, Ca.
I think some of us who went through that debris field well southwest of the Spot impact point and observed how pulverized and small the pieces were and the reported condition of the human remains and the blunt force trauma causation will feel more convinced when there is a keel, rig and/or engine located. Right now, it is no more than the observed track we all saw which by itself looks obvious without the complicating factors.


EXACTLY!! my thought completely.:cry:
 

Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,097
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
I think some of us who went through that debris field well southwest of the Spot impact point and observed how pulverized and small the pieces were and the reported condition of the human remains and the blunt force trauma causation will feel more convinced when there is a keel, rig and/or engine located. Right now, it is no more than the observed track we all saw which by itself looks obvious without the complicating factors.

I have to agree with you Rick D. For those of us who have actually done the race, the Coronados at night are always a careful event, with more than one person on watch. There is alot of commercial fishing in that area, to include military, and ships coming up from Mexico.

With the available recovery vehicles, I concur with Rick D, where is the mast, the engine, the keel? If they hit one of the islands, it is just hard to believe all perished. The North Island has steep cliffs and on day sails with fairly calm seas, the sound is very loud. Also, I had met the skipper and that crew when we won our podium. They did also. They were not inexperienced.

But yes, a tragedy.

Something just doesnt feel quite right.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,016
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Wow, hard stuff and steep cliffs and you think debris would be found? NOT. Premature conclusions at best. A tradegy, yes, like the folks who went aground on the Farallones.

But this one says to me: "Watchkeeper screwed up BIG TIME."

Sorry to say, but from the report, what other conclusion can one come to?

We could get into the "debate" about chartplotters, zooming in vs the BIG picture and paper charts, but this happened because someone screwed the pooch.

Tragic.
 

Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,097
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
What was interesting Stu because we happened to be in an around the approaches to San Diego after the race was... the Coasties, Homeland guys were taking a look at all the big boats coming into San. Looking for paint perhaps... I dont know.

I am not a conspiracy guy and to get closure I will go with the watch messed it up. But it hit so hard that it totally dismasted the boat, ripped off the keel? I saw the pictures on the sling load. The shrouds gone... They were doing say 8-9 knots tops in a 37 footer.

And the watch up on deck got incapacitated to the point they couldnt even get on the land that was within reach... alibiet an emergency not planned for and they were not spring chickens. The rest of the crew being smashed against the cliffs in 1 knot winds and a very docile sea. Hmmmmm. Parts of the boat strewn about the sea as Rick D will attest from that? Perhaps...

Maybe the deep sea detectives could solve this one.

Still on the fence. Not trying to stir this up. I see a lot of wierd traffic off the coast of San... all the time.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,016
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Might be time to get off the fence. I was out north of Potato Patch Shoal yesterday in 25 gusting to 35 with a 110 jib and a reefed main, with my 23 year old son, 5 miles off the coast, 7 feet at 7 seconds after the wind came up abruptly. We ended up turning back to the Gate. 6.3 to 7.6 knots is WAY fast.

We hove to and furled the main, then ran downwind on jib alone. See flick.

Ya hit something solid, a fiberglass boat (AWB to UK guys) is gonna be gone real quick.

We were five miles off the coast, but didn't feel too comfortable with REALLY high SOLID cliffs to leeward.

Downwind is fun unless there's something in front of you. 'Specially if you shoulda known it was there. We had good visibility in daylight and knew where we were.

Seems like they didn't.

Still, tragic, but avoidable.

PS I before E except after C (and also WEIRD) - don't ask how I know this...:):):)
 

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Rick

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Oct 5, 2004
1,097
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
I will ponder that Stu..

Good thoughts

Wanna see if Rick D chimes in
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,184
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Post Mortems

I have no idea what happened. The Spot track is a simple explanation, and simple explanations are often right. If typical two on, two off crew shift, it's less likely both watch crew were asleep. Once my watch crew had fallen asleep on a return, so it can happen, even if a lot less likely during the race with an experienced competent crew.

OK, if asleep, and they also put in a waypoint that went through the north island or entered the north island as a waypoint, that's another possibility. Now we have two compounding errors unusual for an experienced crew.

So now, picture this: assuming all the latter, the Aegean hits the rocks at maybe 7 mph. You walk at 4 mph & run at 9 mph (lots of assumptions). So, one crew in the V berth, feet forward. One 30 feet aft, feet to the hull side. One crew 34 feet aft, aft of the wheel, facing forward. The other crew in the cockpit, facing aft, back against the cockpit 30 feet aft.

You hit a solid wall at 7 mph, as if you were running. If you ran into a tree as you probably did as a kid, you might be knocked out. You might even break something. No doubt, the bow of the boat is busted up, at least three feet. However, the anchor roller, anchor locker and forestay work as an energy absorbing medium.

The conditions are 1-3 knots of wind and 1 knot of southerly current. Modest 2-3 foot shore break.

So, if she T-bones the island. how do three of four crew die from blunt force trauma? I could understand it in a vehicle while being unrestrained in a 30 mph collision if all three were sitting on the front seat. This isn't close. The skipper drowned, but with blunt force complication. Besides, the keel would most likely hit first, thus mitigating the forces on the crew and vessel further.

The debris field was southwest of the Spot impact point by maybe two miles. We were transiting at a very conservative distance as we went through the debris field. Granted that the current runs south, but how did the vessel disintegrate into such small pieces? Where is the keel, rig and engine? You would think that if the surf was large enough, or the forces large enough, to inflict this trauma on a vessel, the investigators would find it because it would be right there.

The chances of hitting something like a 24 foot Panga with a cargo running fast and no lights is a possibility. But where are the bodies or cargo or debris?

What about a tanker running North? You wouldn't expect it to be that close to the islands. However, a dock mate in Ensenada told me they were in about the same location around the same time and had hailed one which did respond to them. We also had an incident on the return around the same area. Figure a tanker running 18 mph and a vessel at 7 mph head on, and the remains of the vessel and crew being dragged the length aft, the scenario sounds more convincing.

I would expect there to be a search for the hard metallic components of Aegean. Short that or a very convincing rationale why, this won't digest well with boaters in the area.

I'm sure everyone involved is working hard with facts rather than assumptions. Hopefully, the results will be of value to us.

For the record, as a young man, I did accident reconstruction if not very sophisticated.

 
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Apr 22, 2001
497
Hunter 420 Norfolk, VA
RE ... Post Mortems

As Arte Johnson used to say on "Laugh-In"....

"Veerrrry INteresting"


What about the conspiracy theory of ...
An, unlit, Mexican, drug running, "Go-fast boat",. using the Coronados as a radar screen, running 30+kts, never even saw the Agean, ... before, "Bang".
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,184
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
What about the conspiracy theory of ...
An, unlit, Mexican, drug running, "Go-fast boat",. using the Coronados as a radar screen, running 30+kts, never even saw the Aegean, ... before, "Bang".
Yea, that was one of the theories. You would wonder why there wasn't floating evidence of cargo, human or boat remains. That's why the tanker makes more sense. Again, she may have broken up on the rocks, but you would still think the investigation would look for evidence of that by way of debris at the impact point and evidence on the floating debris recovered and of the forensic review of the crew remains.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Occam's razor, people. Occam's razor.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,016
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I would guess (note emphasis) that the tanker theory was being checked by Homeland Security and that they'd know what shipping was in the area (other than drug runners - but if they tried to use the islands for radar protection, that concept would not work the second they got away from the islands anyway). If the Coast Guard and HS checked the shipping that was there, they most likely could find out if there was damage. Many years ago a fishing boat was rammed by a freighter off San Francisco. They eventually found the culprit by checking its hull. Can't say if it'd work for a fiberglass boat, don't recall the material of the fishing boat.

Yes, despite my earlier post, there remain some questions about the lack of debirs at the island, unless they've already checked but neglected to mention it.
 
Sep 20, 2006
2,952
Hunter 33 Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
from the report ......

"Board members collected the Aegean’s tracking data, interviewed race organizers and conferred with the Coast Guard before concluding that the 37-foot Hunter 376 sailboat became grounded on Mexico’s North Coronado Island, "


Wouldn't their tracking data show they hit the island? Also, this only US Sailing. USCG is yet to release their findings.
I also would think that they could track the commercial shipping with AIS and show a collision or not?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Divers? Robert Ballard-style exploring???

Who gonna pay for that?

This is a tragic accident that killed fellow sailors. But is also not something that the government is going to try and prove 100%. The vast preponderance of evidence suggests that they motorsailed straight into the island. There is nothing that supports a ship-to-ship collision.

Anyone that wants to go for 100% proof will likely have to pay for that themselves.
 
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