I have obtained an ODay Daysailor II it is in Great shape and has always been cared for. The problem is that it may have to be cut up and scraped as I do not have a title for it and I am un able to register it in the state of Ma. or in the State of R.I. The people who owned the boat are elderly and have owned it for a great many years They never needed to register it therefore they never had any of the paperwork that each of the above mentioned states require. If there is anyone who may know how I can overcome this problem I would appreciate your advice as this is a wonderful boat and I truly would love to be able to use it
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EJ Tews
Contact the state and ask them if they have an idea. My Father built a boat in New Jersey and was able to registar it as a new build. The state may have some options for you. EJ Tews
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Chris B
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Josh
It's not a new build...
If it was a new build the state would be able to create new registration for it sure, but as it's not a new build they won't. Of course you could lie...heh.... The legal way would be to first find out if the people you bought it from are the legal owners. Did they buy it, register it, and loose the paperwork? If so, you can get a copy of the paperwork needed from the state for a replacement title, and have them fill it out. Then after they get it, they can sign it over to you. If not, then you will have to track down the legal owner. This can be down via the ID number on the back and help from either the state you bought it in or the couple you purchased it from. It's going to be some legwork on your part. If that turns out to be a dead end, your next step would be the generation of a new title legally. This might vary state to state. Concider asking your state or even going down to a storage rental facility and asking them. They should tell you how you legally go about creating documentation to legally own the boat. If someone doesn't pay their bills at a storage facility, they can sell the property off to pay for those fees. In Wisconsin, it simply involves running an ad in the local paper stating that said item will be sold for storage fees if the original owner doesn't come forward and pay said fees. I'd assume there must be some sort of process you can do the same for lost and found objects. Lost and found would be more akin to your boat I'd think. Anyways, if you do this for a week in Wisconsin, then take the ad to the proper agency and fill out the proper paperwork, the item is yours legally and they will generate the registration for you. If the proper agency is of no help, call your county clerk, they are usuaully MUCH more helpful. They can put you in touch with your elected official, who is ALWAYS looking for a way to help the voting public...and will do what he or she needs to help you follow through on this. When you deal with a hired state employee, they could care less about your problems. But when you deal directly with your elected representative, or someone within his or her office, they are often much more helpful. Explain to them your problem, how you are fed up with the unhelpful people at the DNR, etc. and how you are really frustrated and would some help. They see it as a PR issue, where if they help you they might garner your vote and the people that you tell about the help they provided. Heh...well enough about county politics...can you tell I've had to do this before? Did it with an abandoned car. My cousin did it with a motorcycle as well. It works, but there's a lot you have to do to get it done. Josh
If it was a new build the state would be able to create new registration for it sure, but as it's not a new build they won't. Of course you could lie...heh.... The legal way would be to first find out if the people you bought it from are the legal owners. Did they buy it, register it, and loose the paperwork? If so, you can get a copy of the paperwork needed from the state for a replacement title, and have them fill it out. Then after they get it, they can sign it over to you. If not, then you will have to track down the legal owner. This can be down via the ID number on the back and help from either the state you bought it in or the couple you purchased it from. It's going to be some legwork on your part. If that turns out to be a dead end, your next step would be the generation of a new title legally. This might vary state to state. Concider asking your state or even going down to a storage rental facility and asking them. They should tell you how you legally go about creating documentation to legally own the boat. If someone doesn't pay their bills at a storage facility, they can sell the property off to pay for those fees. In Wisconsin, it simply involves running an ad in the local paper stating that said item will be sold for storage fees if the original owner doesn't come forward and pay said fees. I'd assume there must be some sort of process you can do the same for lost and found objects. Lost and found would be more akin to your boat I'd think. Anyways, if you do this for a week in Wisconsin, then take the ad to the proper agency and fill out the proper paperwork, the item is yours legally and they will generate the registration for you. If the proper agency is of no help, call your county clerk, they are usuaully MUCH more helpful. They can put you in touch with your elected official, who is ALWAYS looking for a way to help the voting public...and will do what he or she needs to help you follow through on this. When you deal with a hired state employee, they could care less about your problems. But when you deal directly with your elected representative, or someone within his or her office, they are often much more helpful. Explain to them your problem, how you are fed up with the unhelpful people at the DNR, etc. and how you are really frustrated and would some help. They see it as a PR issue, where if they help you they might garner your vote and the people that you tell about the help they provided. Heh...well enough about county politics...can you tell I've had to do this before? Did it with an abandoned car. My cousin did it with a motorcycle as well. It works, but there's a lot you have to do to get it done. Josh
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Don Evans
Speak With David Lewis
I believe he went through a lot of your problems when he tried to register his homebuilt dinghy"Little Jan". Dave lives in Maine, but I believe he registered it in another state, R.I., I believe. He is listed in the owners directory, and you can email him directly from there. He owns an OD35. He pops in here once and awhile. Maybe he can help. Don
I believe he went through a lot of your problems when he tried to register his homebuilt dinghy"Little Jan". Dave lives in Maine, but I believe he registered it in another state, R.I., I believe. He is listed in the owners directory, and you can email him directly from there. He owns an OD35. He pops in here once and awhile. Maybe he can help. Don
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Sean Fleming
No Title - Surety Bond
I encountered a similar problem with obtaining title to the trailer for my O'Day 23 in CT. When I purchased the boat and trailer, no title existed for the trailer. It took me nearly six months to learn that DMV would accept me having a surety company (insurance company) issue a surety bond, which is akin to a guarantee - basically giving me clear title to the trailer. Might work for your boat, too. Good luck, and don't give up the fight! -SRF
I encountered a similar problem with obtaining title to the trailer for my O'Day 23 in CT. When I purchased the boat and trailer, no title existed for the trailer. It took me nearly six months to learn that DMV would accept me having a surety company (insurance company) issue a surety bond, which is akin to a guarantee - basically giving me clear title to the trailer. Might work for your boat, too. Good luck, and don't give up the fight! -SRF
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Dave
Registering a small home built boat
Hey Don Evans thanks for the plug. I actually live in Massachusetts but sail out of Noank Ct. I say Mystic in my responses because it is right next door and no one ever heard of Noank. I tried to register my homebuilt in Ct. but they required me to take the boat to Old Saybrook for the department of environmental protection inspection. This was too much trouble so I called the Mass. registry and heres how it went. 1. Call the Department of Environmental Protection and schedule an inspection. 2. The DEP Officer COMES TO YOUR HOUSE looks at the boat, says yes it is a boat, fills out a form and gives it to you. This allows you to get a hull number which you need for registration purposes. 3. Go to the tax office and pay your sales tax. In my case I paid sales tax on the materials already so armed with receipts I didn't have to pay and got a waiver. 4. Go to the DEP office with your tax receipt and there you get your hull number from a database system that keeps track of them. Then you pay a little more and get a two year registration. In Mass. the DEP handles boat registrations not the DMV. This was much easier than Connecticut!!! Now if your boat already has a hull number it seems like a bill of sale and a notarized statement from the prior owners would be adequate? The beauracracy doesn't allow the workers to use common sense. They follow the rules and if a situation arises that requires thinking and judgement it's not in the job description. Note the DEP inspctor is not inspecting the boat for seaworthiness, that leads to liability when it breaks apart and sinks. He is only noting that it is in fact a boat and it needs a hull number. If you are in trouble call my friend BC (Bob Cummings the lawyer) in Morehead City North Carolina and he can help you sue the state. Good Luck, Dave
Hey Don Evans thanks for the plug. I actually live in Massachusetts but sail out of Noank Ct. I say Mystic in my responses because it is right next door and no one ever heard of Noank. I tried to register my homebuilt in Ct. but they required me to take the boat to Old Saybrook for the department of environmental protection inspection. This was too much trouble so I called the Mass. registry and heres how it went. 1. Call the Department of Environmental Protection and schedule an inspection. 2. The DEP Officer COMES TO YOUR HOUSE looks at the boat, says yes it is a boat, fills out a form and gives it to you. This allows you to get a hull number which you need for registration purposes. 3. Go to the tax office and pay your sales tax. In my case I paid sales tax on the materials already so armed with receipts I didn't have to pay and got a waiver. 4. Go to the DEP office with your tax receipt and there you get your hull number from a database system that keeps track of them. Then you pay a little more and get a two year registration. In Mass. the DEP handles boat registrations not the DMV. This was much easier than Connecticut!!! Now if your boat already has a hull number it seems like a bill of sale and a notarized statement from the prior owners would be adequate? The beauracracy doesn't allow the workers to use common sense. They follow the rules and if a situation arises that requires thinking and judgement it's not in the job description. Note the DEP inspctor is not inspecting the boat for seaworthiness, that leads to liability when it breaks apart and sinks. He is only noting that it is in fact a boat and it needs a hull number. If you are in trouble call my friend BC (Bob Cummings the lawyer) in Morehead City North Carolina and he can help you sue the state. Good Luck, Dave
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Chris B
ODay with no title
Thanks for all the advice but I am starting to believe a chainsaw is the best solution as I have already tried almost all of the others.
Thanks for all the advice but I am starting to believe a chainsaw is the best solution as I have already tried almost all of the others.
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Dave
sail it
you only need a title and registration if you are going to use an outboard motor on your boat. you can sail it!! Before you cut it up give me a call and I'll take it. I'm sure many other readers would like it as well. Dave
you only need a title and registration if you are going to use an outboard motor on your boat. you can sail it!! Before you cut it up give me a call and I'll take it. I'm sure many other readers would like it as well. Dave
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Ed
On another note
Sorry I don't have any suggestions about registering the boat. I am interested in Dave's responses since he sails out of Mystic/Noank. I sail out of Groton and just bought my O'day 25 at the end of this season. How far is it to sail to Watch Hill? Do you have to sail in close to land through the channel or can you sail a straight shot to Watch Hill with a swing keel? Have you sailed to Block Island? How long of a sail is it for you from Noank? Any other information you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks--
Sorry I don't have any suggestions about registering the boat. I am interested in Dave's responses since he sails out of Mystic/Noank. I sail out of Groton and just bought my O'day 25 at the end of this season. How far is it to sail to Watch Hill? Do you have to sail in close to land through the channel or can you sail a straight shot to Watch Hill with a swing keel? Have you sailed to Block Island? How long of a sail is it for you from Noank? Any other information you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks--
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Chris B
Reply to sail it
That's not exactly true there is a requirement in Ma. law that the Boat be registered. and besides all that I need to motor out from where it would be kept.
That's not exactly true there is a requirement in Ma. law that the Boat be registered. and besides all that I need to motor out from where it would be kept.
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Josh
JEEZ...dont chop!
If anything, find a state that you CAN register it in..hell, there's probably a few people on here that would help you out, myself included. Then, when they get the title, they can sign the boat back over to you and you are done! Josh
If anything, find a state that you CAN register it in..hell, there's probably a few people on here that would help you out, myself included. Then, when they get the title, they can sign the boat back over to you and you are done! Josh
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Josh
JEEZ...dont chop!
Are you still able to contact the previous owners?? What state were the previous owners from?? Whatever state the boat is from, you can get a replacement title through the mail. Have the previous owner sign it. I would think with a little footwork you could track down and get a copy of the title. If you'd rather cut up the boat then do that running, why'd you buy the boat in the first place? If it wasn't for the LD charges, I'd probably do the calling just to keep you from destroying the boat. Heres all the information I gathered about RI and MA registration in under an hour. Here's some people to contact for RI: Boating Law Administrator Division of Law Enforcement Department of Environmental Management 83 Park Street Providence, RI 02903 Phone: 401-277-3071 Office of Boat Registration
Are you still able to contact the previous owners?? What state were the previous owners from?? Whatever state the boat is from, you can get a replacement title through the mail. Have the previous owner sign it. I would think with a little footwork you could track down and get a copy of the title. If you'd rather cut up the boat then do that running, why'd you buy the boat in the first place? If it wasn't for the LD charges, I'd probably do the calling just to keep you from destroying the boat. Heres all the information I gathered about RI and MA registration in under an hour. Here's some people to contact for RI: Boating Law Administrator Division of Law Enforcement Department of Environmental Management 83 Park Street Providence, RI 02903 Phone: 401-277-3071 Office of Boat Registration
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Chris B
Been There Done That
The people That owned the boat before I did purchased the boat many years ago prior to the title law. Due to the fact that they never needed a motor for the boat no registration was ever required. They have no record of sales tax ever being paid on the boat as there was never any registration. In ma. the only way of registering the boat is if there were any written records of it. I have been to both state offices and have had a great deal of time trying to find a legal way to accomplish the registration at this point there is none. I do appreciate the effort you put forth in finding the information that you have found. but at this point the laws in these states are unbending and favor the boat dealers and not the boat owners
The people That owned the boat before I did purchased the boat many years ago prior to the title law. Due to the fact that they never needed a motor for the boat no registration was ever required. They have no record of sales tax ever being paid on the boat as there was never any registration. In ma. the only way of registering the boat is if there were any written records of it. I have been to both state offices and have had a great deal of time trying to find a legal way to accomplish the registration at this point there is none. I do appreciate the effort you put forth in finding the information that you have found. but at this point the laws in these states are unbending and favor the boat dealers and not the boat owners
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Chris Bagin
Me too
All, This is a great thread, as I too find myself in the same situation. I purchased a 63 Mariner in bad shape. After fixing her up over the summer I am starting down the same path to get her in the water. Unfortunately, Chris is right, its a pretty unforgiving (and maybe impossible) path. The Massachusetts Gov't likes to smoke a big bowl of crack every now and again, this being an excellent example. Perhaps someone could suggest a more boater friendly state to register in. I sure would be happier giving them my registration $$$. Chris PS Too bad my last name isnt Kennedy...
All, This is a great thread, as I too find myself in the same situation. I purchased a 63 Mariner in bad shape. After fixing her up over the summer I am starting down the same path to get her in the water. Unfortunately, Chris is right, its a pretty unforgiving (and maybe impossible) path. The Massachusetts Gov't likes to smoke a big bowl of crack every now and again, this being an excellent example. Perhaps someone could suggest a more boater friendly state to register in. I sure would be happier giving them my registration $$$. Chris PS Too bad my last name isnt Kennedy...
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Chris Bagin
Answered my own question
Actually, being a Pennsylvania native before reloating to Mass, I thought I start by looking there. http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/boatap.htm Seems like this might work. Form REV-336 Wish me luck, Chris
Actually, being a Pennsylvania native before reloating to Mass, I thought I start by looking there. http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Fish_Boat/boatap.htm Seems like this might work. Form REV-336 Wish me luck, Chris
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Bill Yale
California Experience
I bought my O'day 20 last May. It had been in a garage fopr the last 15 years and the owner could not find the title for the trailer or the boat. All I had was a written bill of sale for both and a registration card for the trailer. California DMV simply took the serial numbers off of both and created new titles for them. The trailer was in the computer system but the boat had dropped out so it was created as a new vessel. Besides having to send paperwork back to the previous owner for his spouse to sign off on the trailer, and having to negotiate the DMV parking lot with car and trailer, the whole process took about 40 mins and cost less then $200. Not knowing Rhode Island's laws, and living in a state with as many regulations as California does, I can't imagine it could be any harder than here to register the boat. Besides that, since I live in Lake Tahoe, I had to prove I had a four stroke engine on the vessel as two strokes are now banned up here.
I bought my O'day 20 last May. It had been in a garage fopr the last 15 years and the owner could not find the title for the trailer or the boat. All I had was a written bill of sale for both and a registration card for the trailer. California DMV simply took the serial numbers off of both and created new titles for them. The trailer was in the computer system but the boat had dropped out so it was created as a new vessel. Besides having to send paperwork back to the previous owner for his spouse to sign off on the trailer, and having to negotiate the DMV parking lot with car and trailer, the whole process took about 40 mins and cost less then $200. Not knowing Rhode Island's laws, and living in a state with as many regulations as California does, I can't imagine it could be any harder than here to register the boat. Besides that, since I live in Lake Tahoe, I had to prove I had a four stroke engine on the vessel as two strokes are now banned up here.
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Chris B
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Josh
Chris B
I contacted WI's DNR, based on the day sailer. I didn't ask about the Mariner, but I'd assume the details are the same. WITH a sales receipt, I can do it in this state. Basically told them that the boat is old, previous owner hasn't used it for fifteen years. Previous owner also stated that it didn't need to be registered when he purchased it. The DNR told me that all that was needed was a bill of sale, VIN, etc. and they could generate a title for 16.50 on a boat under 16 feet. Look, here's what I'll do. If you are willing, I'll register the boats here, sign it back over to the two of you. My suggestion would also be to write your state representative and tell them what a stupid flipping law they have that didn't take into account boats that didn't require registration previously. Wisconsin will generate the title for it, then you can transfer it to your state. Or, worse comes to worse, you just sail around with wisconsin stickers on your boat. When the local authorities ask how come the daysailor is registered in wisconsin, tell them that you sailed it all the way there via the great lakes, and are planning on doing a circumnavigation! Heh. Seriously though, if you want it registered here, and are willing to foot the bill, I'll do the leg work. Josh P.S. I just thought of something..you might be able to register it here from out of state. Just tell them you keep it at a summer cottage your family has in northern wisconsin. Tell them you would like the paperwork mailed to your address in MA though, because you don't get out to the cottage very often. The number for the DNR in Milwaukee is 414-263-8500, or go to the link below for other areas, and the DNR website. http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/cs/ServiceCenter/SSbyRegion.html
I contacted WI's DNR, based on the day sailer. I didn't ask about the Mariner, but I'd assume the details are the same. WITH a sales receipt, I can do it in this state. Basically told them that the boat is old, previous owner hasn't used it for fifteen years. Previous owner also stated that it didn't need to be registered when he purchased it. The DNR told me that all that was needed was a bill of sale, VIN, etc. and they could generate a title for 16.50 on a boat under 16 feet. Look, here's what I'll do. If you are willing, I'll register the boats here, sign it back over to the two of you. My suggestion would also be to write your state representative and tell them what a stupid flipping law they have that didn't take into account boats that didn't require registration previously. Wisconsin will generate the title for it, then you can transfer it to your state. Or, worse comes to worse, you just sail around with wisconsin stickers on your boat. When the local authorities ask how come the daysailor is registered in wisconsin, tell them that you sailed it all the way there via the great lakes, and are planning on doing a circumnavigation! Heh. Seriously though, if you want it registered here, and are willing to foot the bill, I'll do the leg work. Josh P.S. I just thought of something..you might be able to register it here from out of state. Just tell them you keep it at a summer cottage your family has in northern wisconsin. Tell them you would like the paperwork mailed to your address in MA though, because you don't get out to the cottage very often. The number for the DNR in Milwaukee is 414-263-8500, or go to the link below for other areas, and the DNR website. http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/cs/ServiceCenter/SSbyRegion.html
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Chris Bagin
Thanks Josh
Thanks for your help Josh. I appreciate the effort. I think my first plan of attack will be to try Pennsylvania and see how that goes. I'll let you know how it turns out and/or be asking for more assistance. %P Thanks again, Chris
Thanks for your help Josh. I appreciate the effort. I think my first plan of attack will be to try Pennsylvania and see how that goes. I'll let you know how it turns out and/or be asking for more assistance. %P Thanks again, Chris
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