O'day 28 Head/Hanging Locker Pan - What is under here?

[Clutch Cargo]

So, having redone everything downstream of the holding tank (and vastly improved the tank venting), it is now time to tackle the really tough part of my head rehab project. This past spring, I reinstalled the hanging locker face & shelf so that it is much easier to remove and had it out in about 10 minutes. I then disconnected and plugged the 1.5" hoses to/from the siphon break and the tank inlet and removed the Groco HF head.

I then tried to see how easily the hoses moved back and forth between the locker and the forepeak, and the locker and where the head is mounted. The head connection hose moved somewhat as you can see from the attached image, but it was not easy. The other one, not at all. This makes me wonder if these hoses have ever been changed at all. I do know the head is not the original because of the second set of mounting holes. What is most concerning is that when I look down the hole where the hoses come up to the head, I could see a reflection indicating standing water. Not good. Hopefully there are a few clogged limber holes and if not, I have to figure out something.

Bottom line, has anyone ever removed this pan before? If not, then I will document exactly what is under there.

 

[twodzusfittings]

From the picture it looks like you need to gently lift, with a small flat head screw driver, the little round caps. Under them you will find screws. Remove the screws. The pan should come out freely.

 

[twodzusfittings]

Daahhh! That wasn't the question. Sorry. Jumped on the keyboard too quick. Yes, let us know what you find.

 

[Apex]

in 79 the shut-off for the head raw water intake was under the PORT lazarette. The hoes then went forward under the pan you mention and out. I assume the same: there is nothing but outer hull there. Nice that it was made removeable so that you can service the area.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Thanks for the replies. I just got back to it was I had been traveling for work. Well, now we know what is under there, and as you can see from the attached image, it is not pretty! It took quite a bit of doing and I'm quite certain its never been out. Sorry there is only one image as I was running out of daylight. Obviously, the raw water hose is new, but the nasty Shields hoses are quite old. The liner that supports the pan looks to be adhered with essentially bondo as this was normal and customary back in the day. The one feeble attempt at a limber hole was naturally clogged thus the standing water. I removed the remaining two hoses (YUK!!) sucked out all the water with the shop-vac, out and sprayed some Clorox Bathroom cleaner on it because that was all I had handy. I am returning today to do a proper cleaning.

So, my plan going forward (after a thorough cleaning and a coat of bilge paint) is to increase the number of limber holes in order eliminate the possibility of standing water. Then, I will cut the pan into two pieces and modify it so that the bottom of the hanging locker can be removed for future servicing access. The existing siphon break will be removed and replaced with a VETUS unit which will be vented to the skin of the vessel. The connection between the siphon break and the holding tank will be made with a combination of PVC pipe (as much as possible) and hose. The former will be used under the athwartship bulkhead and the storage shelf in the forepeak and will be suspended in order to make sure it doesn't trap water. A piece of King StarBoard will be attached to the bottom of the pan to act as an access panel. The new Raritan Superflush head will be attached to it via threaded inserts in the StarBoard.

To Apex, when O'day freshened the 28 (I think in '83) someone smartened up and put the raw water inlet to the head under the port settee and added an access door.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

It cleaned up easier than I thought. This grid piece was actually tabbed versus stuck on with bondo, and that is a good thing. However, it does retain water because it is not connected to the lower section and has no limber hole. Sure enough, the tiny limber hole in the lower section was clogged and I'm actually glad because it was better to clean this up here rather than somewhere else. I put a piece of wire down through and there is a void under the head sole and so the water from the grid should empty into the main bilge, just like the shower drain. To prevent it from clogging again, I decided to enlarge the hole with a 1/2" drill bit. Then I drilled two more. Well, then I took my oscillating tool and made a slot in the very corner. This will surely prevent it from clogging again.

There were a couple of places where the tabbing ends had lifted and they still had indications of mildew. So, I patted them down with a paper towel soaked in straight bleach to kill the black stuff. The next step will be to fill the lifted tabs and upper grid section with enough epoxy to make sure that any water will migrate to the lower section and out through the newly made slot. This is akin to filling areas next to the keel on a wooden vessel with tar to facilitate the flow of bilge water.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

So, the surgery continues.....
I have decided to cut the pan into three pieces. The largest will be the pan itself, and the other two will be the bottom of the hanging locker. The latter will be cut into 1/3, 2/3 pieces. The overall purpose is to be able to remove the 2/3 piece at any time for inspection and cleaning.

Before making the first cut, I made a bracket of sorts to support the locker bottom. This consists of a couple of strips of 1/2" plywood glued together and painted with epoxy. Be advised that it is not exactly a 90 degree angle, so I covered the pan with cling wrap and glued the strips in place so they would mirror the proper angle.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Well, its be a while so I thought I'd provide an update.

After several rounds of taking measurements (and pulling the pan in and out which is a PITA), I came to the happy conclusion that I could install the new head and not have any hoses underneath the pan. The only thing that will be under there will be a section of PVC pipe running forward to the blackwater tank. The Raritan P101 has a provision for straight discharge versus the normal 90 degree down. So I picked up this fitting and mocked up where it would pass through the back of the pan. Luckily, there is enough space for a PVC sweep 90 and then hose up to the siphon break.

With this decided, I filled the lag bolt holes and sealed the big "hose" hole sides in the pan with epoxy. The bottom is cored with 3/4" plywood. Next, I bought a piece of 1/2" thick StarBoard to make a clean new base for the P101. The biggest challenge is of my own making. My goal is to be able to remove the head in less than 30 minutes so as to take it ashore for maintenance or storage. This means reusable fasteners and a way to easily disconnect the raw water hose. To address the former, I am using 316 stainless adhesive mount nuts. This was suggested to me by one of my boatbuilder customers and you can get them from McMaster-Carr. As you can see from the image, they are not epoxied to the underside as I'd like to be able to remove them if needed. I'm using 5/16"-18 machine screws (316 of course) and I specifically chose a Phillips head so that I cannot put too much torque on them. I'll address the raw water hose in another post.

 

[Clutch Cargo]

Well, it is almost finished. I do not have pics of the hanging locker face piece installed, but everything downstream of the commode is in place.

My goal was to eliminate the hose that ran beneath the commode pan to the tank by using using PVC pipe. On the tank end, there is a sweep 90 and a transition fitting to a 1 foot length of hose. On the other end I had to mess around with a few fittings to make it so that the hose and clamp are accessible. This is not as clean as I'd like and hopefully will not cause a blockage when moving solid matter. I really like the fact that the Raritan PH101 has a provision for horizontal discharge because I was able to route it out the back of the pan vs. below. This makes it so that, barring any really bad calcium build up (more on that in a minute), the pan will not have to be removed, well, at least not by me anyway.

As planned, I cut the hanging locker pan so that 2/3 is removable to get at the hoses. This came out great and I will be able to inspect them without having to remove the front of the hanging locker.

Lastly, I cut a hole on the left side of the commode pan to run the raw water through the bulkhead versus under the pan. While not as pretty, it is far more accessible, and will allow me to flush the commode with fresh water. How you ask? Well, I found a company that sells 316 Stainless fittings that resemble that of a garden hose. The image I posed is deceiving, the barb ends are long enough to accommodate two hose clamps. When I want to run fresh water through the PH101, all I have to do is close the thru-hull valve, break the connection and attach the section of hose I will make up and take suction out of the sink in the head. eventually, I may rig something up to the sink drain.