I'm new to this forum, and perhaps this has been addressed in past posts, but if not - is anyone aware anyone else converting from diesel to outboard with this boat? It has the 1986 westebeke 10-two that it came with and I'd like to pull that out, put a motor mount on starboard side and use an outboard. I realize the westebeke is a great little engine but I do primarily lake sailing and I'd love to have a brand new outboard with less maintenance. Specifically I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to rig the motor mount so that it sits flush and at what height to mount it (presuming a 25 inch brand new honda 9.9 hp outboard).... I've looked for pictures and specifications of the 272 that came with an outboard but I haven't seen much in the way of specifics. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Oday 272 - Diesel to Outboard conversion
- Thread starter nateinmaine
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I think that it's doable. The reason I say this is because I helped a friend of mine deliver his 1986 O'Day 272 up from Cape Cod to the Bristol RI area years ago and this boat had an outboard that pushed it quite well. I think it was a Yamaha 15 HP I'm not sure.
You'll probably need to install some kind of a backing board with metal plates inside the transom. You'll also need a block of some kind to mount on the outside transom. These are difficult to find and I'm not sure if D&R Marine carries them, but it's worth checking out. http://www.drmarine.com/ If worse comes to worse, you can probably construct one out of Fiberglass or even wood.
My friend Ray built one out of wood for his 86 O'Day 26.
Of course, it goes without saying that you'll need a heavy duty outboard bracket.
It might not be a bad idea to check the thickness of the transom somehow. If you don't think it's thick enough to take the weight and thrust of a four stroke outboard, you can always beef up the inside.
I have some pics of the engine block on my friend Mike's O'Day 272 and I also have some pics of Ray's O'Day 26 with the wood engine block.
Ray used two solid pine blocks to make his engine block. There's some stuff out there right now that's even better than wood. I've been using Trex on my boat and I'm in the process of building a mast plug extrusion with Trex and PVC Foam board.
Someone on this forum was constructing these blocks. I don't know if the guy is still making them. Perhaps he or someone else will chime in for you.
Joe
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I have an 87 272 with the westerbeke 10two. The diesel has been great, and has no problems propelling the boat about 3.5kph @ 2000 and 5+ @ 3000.
If the engine works there is no reason to go through the expense and work to retrofit it for an outboard.
If the engine works there is no reason to go through the expense and work to retrofit it for an outboard.
If I had my choice I'd much prefer the diesel inboard to the 2 stroke gasoline saildrive. The only thing I noticed with the 272 and the 26 was that the stern sat up higher than the bow. I slept in the quarter birth of the 272 and my feet were higher than my head. I had to turn around in the birth and sleep with my head facing the stern.
I'm not sure if has to do with these boats minus the weight of the inboard engine or something in the design. My friend Ray shifted some weight around in the cabin of his 26 to get her to sit lower in the stern.
This complaint may seem trivial to most people who have never had Acid Reflux Disease and Barrett's Esophagus. I need to have my head higher than my feet when I sleep.
Thanks very much to everyone for helping me out - I've got a lot to think about now. Initially I was certain I was going to switch to an outboard... I haven't ruled it out, but I'm continuing to consider my options at this point. One of the major reasons I'd like to switch away from diesel is that the entire cabin smells like diesel - I think i have a leak somewhere in the engine. Is it a common problem to smell like diesel in the cabin (in an almost 30 year old boat)...or is this an odd smell that shouldn't be there?
Nate,
To be honest with you, that would be a good reason for me to switch to an outboard because I can't stand the smell of a diesel. With that said, the diesel engine is a better engine than the gasoline driven 2 stroke sail drive.
You may be better off trying to trace where that smell is coming from and try to fix the problem. It could be a tiny leak in your fuel tank or maybe the PO spilled some fuel in bilge while he was changing a fuel filter.
I had a metal gasoline tank rust out in my boat's fuel locker one spring. It leaked gasoline into the cockpit and it got into the bilge after it ate a hole in my self bailing cockpit hose. It took me weeks to get rid of the smell but I finally did. I no longer use metal gasoline tanks. I also store my gasoline tank in the shed for the winter.
If the diesel runs good and is reliable, I would try to correct the problem. You'll save a lot of money by doing that. Some guys would kill to have a diesel engine in their boat.
Ah....
Does it smell like diesel exhaust or diesel fuel?
Does your engine compartment have ventilation vents?
Joe, i understand the block / wedge used on the transom is to offset the slope of the transom for the outbard mounting bracket. But why does it go past 90 deg?(tends to face down toward the water) is this to provide additional clearance for tilting motor and not hitting transom? Just curious cause i'm contemplating doing this with my 28.
That's a good question. I really don't know. Of course, this isn't a factory block. Ray built this one out of wood and he fiberglassed it.Joe, i understand the block / wedge used on the transom is to offset the slope of the transom for the outbard mounting bracket. But why does it go past 90 deg?(tends to face down toward the water) is this to provide additional clearance for tilting motor and not hitting transom? Just curious cause i'm contemplating doing this with my 28.
It would seem a little more logical if the bracket surface of the block was a little straighter up and down in relation to the waterline, or more of a 90 degree angle to it. I'm pretty sure that Ray used two blocks side by side on his boat to mount that engine bracket. My block seems to be pointing down a little on my boat too.
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After 9 boats, 1 No engine, 2 diesel, 6 outboard, I would vote for a 4 stroke outboard if you're not venturing out in rough water. The only problems with an outboard are, it cavitating when pitching in rough water (the longer shaft the better) and fuel range. Cost wise, you can push a 27 footer at hull speed with a 9.9.Total repacement cost, brand new is around $2700 with an alternator and electric start. You can also do away with couplings, alignment, shaft seals or stuffing boxes, etc. Much easier to work on too. Just haul it off the boat once per sesason, drop it at the dealer and for $150 or so pick it up in the spring. I'm currently using a 1993 2 cycle 9.9 Mercury which I service myself (fuel filter, new plugs and change lower unit oil for about $40 per season. Yes, I'll agree that if you're in a big storm, the diesel is better, but for practical every day use, the outboard will last 20 years for almost no cost per year.
I'm with you Ernie. I love my old 2 stroke Johnson 8 long shaft outboard. I fog the engine every fall and store it down my cellar and let the lower unit gear oil drain. In the spring I'll fill the lower unit, clean and gap the plugs, and start her up in a barrel of water in back of my boat.
Like I mentioned previously though, when he pulls that diesel engine and tank out of his boat, I think that the stern is going to sit a little higher in his boat. He may need to shift some weight around in the inside of his cabin. It may not be a big thing on his boat. It's only noticeable if you sleep in any of the quarter births. There are probably ways of getting around this if you wanted to take the time to find a solution. This was more noticeable on Ray's O'Day 26 while it sat in the water at the mooring. The stern appeared higher than the bow.
Like I mentioned previously though, when he pulls that diesel engine and tank out of his boat, I think that the stern is going to sit a little higher in his boat. He may need to shift some weight around in the inside of his cabin. It may not be a big thing on his boat. It's only noticeable if you sleep in any of the quarter births. There are probably ways of getting around this if you wanted to take the time to find a solution. This was more noticeable on Ray's O'Day 26 while it sat in the water at the mooring. The stern appeared higher than the bow.
I forgot to mention the other day that if you have an outboard, you can always start it, even when your batteries are dead. Just pull the cord. Ernie
I noticed the O'day 26 we are looking at sits bow lower than stem also but only when nobody is in the cockpit. Under sail she will sit on her lines correctly.
I would go outboard too, the time and expense for conversion will be offset with less maintenance hassles. You can always sell off the diesel since its running to defray some costs.
I would go outboard too, the time and expense for conversion will be offset with less maintenance hassles. You can always sell off the diesel since its running to defray some costs.
"I noticed the O'day 26 we are looking at sits bow lower than stem also but only when nobody is in the cockpit. Under sail she will sit on her lines correctly. "
Maybe that's a good thing. If the cockpit is full of people, you don't want the stern sitting so low that water comes in from the self bailing cockpit hose. This has happened on my boat a couple of times.
Maybe that's a good thing. If the cockpit is full of people, you don't want the stern sitting so low that water comes in from the self bailing cockpit hose. This has happened on my boat a couple of times.
I would think that a 272 with an outboard would tend to sit about the same as the inboard. The inboard engine and gear weighs about 350# (+/-) based on the difference in displacement listed in the brochure, and is located about 3-4' (approx) aft of the center of gravity of the boat. An outboard would be hanging about 13-14' or so aft of the center of gravity, and assuming a typical weight of 100# for a 4-stroke 9.9hp, would represent about 1300-1400 ft#s of force submerging the stern. The inboard would be about 1150 ft#s to 1400 ft#s of force submerging the stern. How much fuel in in either tank may have an effect, but since the moment arm of the tank weight would seem to be similar in both cases, we can disregard any effect? Put a heavier outboard on the bracket and the outboard-powered boat would potentially sit lower in the stern than the inboard.
I was amazed at the difference it made to the trim on my boat when I switched to a smaller battery for the lights, and moved it from directly ahead of the mast (in the cuddy) to tucked in the aft, starboard corner just inside the cuddy.
I was amazed at the difference it made to the trim on my boat when I switched to a smaller battery for the lights, and moved it from directly ahead of the mast (in the cuddy) to tucked in the aft, starboard corner just inside the cuddy.
I'll take the lone position of being strongly opposed to the idea. It will kill your resale value. Will it sell? Yes, but to a much smaller pool of potential buyers. A smaller pool of buyers means a smaller price received. I have passed on several boats that have had similar conversions for that reason alone. I would love a diesel motor in a boat that size. An outboard CAN get the job done as the above posters have pointed out, but when you go to sell your boat I guarantee it won't be to me.
My advice is fix the leaks and keep the diesel.
Nothing personal, just offering a different view.
My advice is fix the leaks and keep the diesel.
Nothing personal, just offering a different view.
All I can say is, when we spent the night anchored in Hadley's Harbor, it was very noticeable in the cabin. My Acid Reflux was acting up on me and I had to sleep in the quarter birth with my head in the cubby hole toward the stern. These boats have a beautiful interior though.
It's true that the resale value will be better with the inboard diesel and the boat may sell faster than the outboard powered boat, but I think that it really depends on the individual who owns the boat.
I can only use myself as an example in a situation like this because I know my mechanical abilities and also my financial status of what I can or cannot afford.
Personally, I never cared about my boat's resale value. I bought it new in 1986 and I made some vast changes to the boat through the years.
I'm a DIY guy when it comes to working on my boat and I know nothing about diesel engines. I know enough about my outboard to winterize it each year and store it in my cellar. Each year I fill the lower unit, clean and gap the plugs, and crank it over in a barrel of water and she runs great.
I have two sons who know enough about gas and diesel engines to work on them, but I don't, and I'm not sure that I'd want to learn at my age. By the same token, I don't think I could afford to have a diesel mechanic work on my engine.
Personally if I owned this boat, I would make the changes and modifications that would satisfy me personally as the boat owner and user.
The boat I presently own is the boat that I plan to keep.
I can only use myself as an example in a situation like this because I know my mechanical abilities and also my financial status of what I can or cannot afford.
Personally, I never cared about my boat's resale value. I bought it new in 1986 and I made some vast changes to the boat through the years.
I'm a DIY guy when it comes to working on my boat and I know nothing about diesel engines. I know enough about my outboard to winterize it each year and store it in my cellar. Each year I fill the lower unit, clean and gap the plugs, and crank it over in a barrel of water and she runs great.
I have two sons who know enough about gas and diesel engines to work on them, but I don't, and I'm not sure that I'd want to learn at my age. By the same token, I don't think I could afford to have a diesel mechanic work on my engine.
Personally if I owned this boat, I would make the changes and modifications that would satisfy me personally as the boat owner and user.
The boat I presently own is the boat that I plan to keep.
Joe, I think that may be the "nature of the beast", the aft berth was probably designed based on the boat sitting on her lines, however like someone said about the O'DAY 23 (or was it 26?), the boat seems designed to sit on her lines with the usual crew in the cockpit. When everyone turns in for the night..... the crew weight moves forward. This is common on all boats, I can remember seeing a boat one morning as we were leaving the harbor, she was definitely "down by the bow" which I didn't have much trouble assuming that to be due to the ocupants still being asleep in the v-berth.
Long story short, If you look at the picture of an outboard 272 in the sales brochure (see below), the stern is floating high (higher than "normal" due to the fact that O'DAY shows her with a fairly lightweight, 56# outboard, and if there is a fuel tank aboard, it is most likely only a 3 gal. since that was standard for the 8 hp in 1984).
The 272 that moors in our cove in Wareham has the Diesel option (she is a 272, not LE) and quite frankly.... I just realized that she sits the same way on the mooring, slightly up in the stern. I should have thought of this yesterday when I posted my balance estimate, but sometimes my memory gets fuzzy on details like that. I wish that I had a picture of my Neighbor's 272 now...... but you'll have to trust me on this one (I'll try to get a pic this summer if she is in the water.)
Your problem (and it is a serious design "OOPS!") with the reverse angle of the aft berth is due to the basic design of the 272 and has no real relation to the inboard vs outboard choice. Someone should have "sentanced" John Deknatel to spending a night in that berth as punishment<GRIN!> for his error.
I posted a pic of a 272 with an inboard to try to show the same floating angle, but all I could find were pics of the 272LE, and the 36# weight of the pedestal steering system would make a difference.
Long story short, If you look at the picture of an outboard 272 in the sales brochure (see below), the stern is floating high (higher than "normal" due to the fact that O'DAY shows her with a fairly lightweight, 56# outboard, and if there is a fuel tank aboard, it is most likely only a 3 gal. since that was standard for the 8 hp in 1984).
The 272 that moors in our cove in Wareham has the Diesel option (she is a 272, not LE) and quite frankly.... I just realized that she sits the same way on the mooring, slightly up in the stern. I should have thought of this yesterday when I posted my balance estimate, but sometimes my memory gets fuzzy on details like that. I wish that I had a picture of my Neighbor's 272 now...... but you'll have to trust me on this one (I'll try to get a pic this summer if she is in the water.)
Your problem (and it is a serious design "OOPS!") with the reverse angle of the aft berth is due to the basic design of the 272 and has no real relation to the inboard vs outboard choice. Someone should have "sentanced" John Deknatel to spending a night in that berth as punishment<GRIN!> for his error.
I posted a pic of a 272 with an inboard to try to show the same floating angle, but all I could find were pics of the 272LE, and the 36# weight of the pedestal steering system would make a difference.
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I always figured that the O'Day 272 LE was designed to take into consideration the combined weight of the inboard diesel and the pedestal steering but someone on the forum pointed out that the O'Day 272 came first before the LE model. I never paid much attention to this model myself but looking at the weight difference between the two models, I think that anyone could come to this same conclusion. I think that it's quite possible that Ray's O'Day 26 could have been designed for an inboard diesel. Rudy told me a long time ago that O'Day figured they could cut down on the cost of them by installing a bracket on the transom for an outboard, and thereby sell more of these boats.
My favorite sleeping area on a boat is the V birth compartment. I would have slept in the V birth area on my friends O'Day 272 that night if he didn't have it loaded up with a lot gear that came with the boat when he bought it.
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