O'Day 25 Skeg?

ebsail · Jul 27, 2014

I see no reason for the skeg. The skeg will also restrict your ability to use your outboard to steer into very shallow areas with your rudder removed. The original rudder is all you need. I know. I have the same boat. On the other hand, in deeper water it will probably do no harm except to add some drag. More important is to add back the centerboard which is very necessary to do windward work (tacking) The centerboard is also a built in depth finder and when it drags on the bottom, depth is 6'. Then you can raise the centerboard, remove the rudder (it weights about 50 lbs) and crawl into about 2' of water. But you do need the centerboard to go to windward efficiently QUOTE=UPSNOWNINJA;1135981]I have a new to me O'Day 25 and the original owner has made some modifications. They used it as a Great Lakes cruiser and changed the interior to be more comfortable, ie, Pressurized hot and cold water, upgraded shore power with more 110v outlets, and on and on.

My question is this.... They removed the center board and added a skeg in front of the rudder. All of the modifications look factory but I am thinking about going back to the original rudder setup without the centerboard. I would leave it as is but I found some water intrusion on the bottom of the skeg when prepping for new bottom paint so I can either remove it and figure out how I want to fill the three mounting holes or I can sail it as is and repair the skeg if/when needed.

Has anyone ever seen a setup like this before? Do you think that the Skeg would help when sailing upwind without the centerboard down? (not that I am concerned with that)

Any ideas would be helpful, and thanks in advance for the advice.[/QUOTE]

svchickadee · Jul 28, 2014

Your rudder has been bobbed. One problem with the oday 25 is that with the board up the rudder draws more than the keel and the boat will ground on the rudder before the keel. Ruddercraft sells kickup rudders that are direct replacements for the original. A kickup rudder will get around the grounding problem the PO avoided. If a kickup rudder is installed it is a good idea to install a prop guard to prevent the rudder engaging the outboard prop. This is what I did on my oday 25.

Ward H · Jul 28, 2014

The skeg was probably installed to protect the rudder from a hard grounding.
The original length rudder extends below the shoal keel 3 or 4" so it is exposed and the skeg may protect it.
I do agree with chickadee that the rudder has been cut shorter.
As far as the CB, maybe he lost it, broke it or something like that. If he glassed in the CB trunk that could be a lot of work to open it up again. If it is still open, cost would be close to $1200 for new CB and hardware and that does not include the pendant tubes.
Actually, if he did all that work to improve interior comfort and it is an older model he may have done away with the CB so he could do away with post and crank that was in the cabin to raise the CB.
My day sails are rarely destination oriented so it is more common for me to leave the CB up than to lower it for greater pointing ability.
I would think having less rudder in the water would affect handling more than not having have a CB. I would go with a replacement rudder and remove the skeg.
IF the rudder was full length, then I would try it as is.

Ward H · Jul 28, 2014

In fact, I think that the rudder is home made or from another boat. Take a look at the O'day 25 manual at this link. http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/downloads/Oday_25_17324134.pdf

The photo shows the rudder. Note how it is notched to extend under the transom, the bottom is angled and the leading and trailing edge above the notch are not parallel, the trailing edge
I understand that they changed something on the O'day 26 so the rudder did not extend below the keel but I am not sure that the change was.
I do know the 26 rudder is of the same design as the 25, just not sure of the length.

Brian S · Jul 28, 2014

UPSNOWNINJA said:
When I am on the water I am in no hurry to get anywhere and maybe not having a centerboard will force me to learn better sail trim....

I dunno about better sail trim - definitely you'll learn about making leeway while close hauled

I've tried sailing the 192 without the CB down, and I can see by the wake I'm making a lot of leeway beating to windward...

RichBone · Jul 29, 2014

I'm curious, How does it sail with the skeg and bobbed rudder? If it sails alright why bother removing the skeg so quickly. It may sail better the way it is than with the original rudder and no CB. It certainly wouldn't catch as many weeds which is a concern where I sail in Western Lake Erie.

Ward H · Jul 29, 2014

UPSNOWNINJA ,
What year is your 25? If you have the 70's 25 and the pendant came up into a pedestal that also supported the cabin table, did you know in 79 or 80 they changed it to an angled tube that came up through the cabin sole, into the galley cabinet under the ice box and into the cockpit?
That type of pendant tube might be more out of the way for you and looks like it would be easy to install.

Of course you may have already researched and know all of this.

You mentioned your new cabin configuration. Any chance you can post some photos?

cb32863 · Jul 29, 2014

Ward H said:
UPSNOWNINJA ,
What year is your 25? If you have the 70's 25 and the pendant came up into a pedestal that also supported the cabin table, did you know in 79 or 80 they changed it to an angled tube that came up through the cabin sole, into the galley cabinet under the ice box and into the cockpit?
That type of pendant tube might be more out of the way for you and looks like it would be easy to install.

Of course you may have already researched and know all of this.

You mentioned your new cabin configuration. Any chance you can post some photos?

My 25 is a 1977 and the CB pendant is fed up with a tube to the cockpit. No hand crank or anything in the cabin. One other thing on the CB, the trunk may have swollen as well as possibly the CB itself. I know personally how much a new CB and installation runs.... Dealing with the trunk is out of the question, for me anyway.

Erieau · Jul 29, 2014

RBone said:
It certainly wouldn't catch as many weeds which is a concern where I sail in Western Lake Erie.

Western Lake Erie is my home too, and the blasted weeds make the CB cable a harvester. I've had to dive under just to clear it so I can retract. To avoid the headache, I'll often leave the board up until I'm well away from the bay. Sails pretty good without.

RichBone · Jul 29, 2014

Joe vandenEnden said:
Western Lake Erie is my home too, and the blasted weeds make the CB cable a harvester. I've had to dive under just to clear it so I can retract. To avoid the headache, I'll often leave the board up until I'm well away from the bay. Sails pretty good without.

I bought the Idasailor kickup rudder mainly because of the weeds. I know what you mean about the CB cable

Ward H · Jul 29, 2014

I've heard of the CB swelling and sanded mine down and sealed it well after the first time it stuck up. Turned out the pendant had worn a groove in the entrance hole of the tube. Learned the second time it stuck up that the thicker part of the eye splice would get caught in the groove.
Went down a size in line and no more problems.
Didn't know the trunk itself could swell. If I had that problem I would sail without the CB too.

Sunbird22358 · Jul 31, 2014

Ward H said:
UPSNOWNINJA ,
What year is your 25? If you have the 70's 25 and the pendant came up into a pedestal that also supported the cabin table, did you know in 79 or 80 they changed it to an angled tube that came up through the cabin sole, into the galley cabinet under the ice box and into the cockpit?

That change was made early in the 1976 Model year, the original setup (same as the 1971-74 23 Cb winch) was used only on hte 1975 and some 1976 models, the CB pendant was routed to the cockpit on the later 1976 to 1983 models and this same basic setup was used on hte 1984-85 O'DAY 26.
The 1979 changes were to the deck, adding an anchor locker forward and a gas tank locker in the cockpit.

cb32863 · Aug 5, 2014

I would still be concerned about that rudder. Just doesn't look right at all....... Sounds like the PO was a reconfigure everything kind of guy....

Ward H · Aug 5, 2014

Nice setup. Like the ladder. Sounds like you are getting close!

OdayDave · Aug 7, 2014

Looks like the main salon is more open than the original design. I like it. I also like the wood along the sides of the main cabin which replaces the carpeting. I may try that at some point. I'm curious, where did the panel get moved to? Anyhow, I would post pictures of that modified cabin and also the skeg on the owner modifications page of this site.

As far as the skeg is concerned, it does serve a purpose so you may want to consider fixing the leak and keeping it. I don't think it will help much with upwind pointing though. The CB goes down another 3' 9" to give a 6 ft draft. If pointing is not a huge deal, you could always hang onto it, or post it for sale on the SailboatOwners website. Someone will eventually need one of these and you can always invest (that's the terminology I always use with the admiral) the money you get for it in some new sailing toy. One thing I would check is for water intrusion on the lower pintles of rudder since they are below the waterline.

I hope you've been able to get out on the lake this season. It's been a very nice second half of the summer so far and Lake Michigan is finally warm enough to make for comfortable sailing. I just spent 9 days cruising around the lake including a crossing (not much wind on the way to Michigan, but good wind on the way back to Wisconsin) and it was excellent. The 25 is a good boat for tooling around on the lake. Looks like your boat is nicely setup for daysailing and cruising.

Dave
s/v Lagnaippe
O'Day 25

Sunbird22358 · Aug 7, 2014

The 25 was not designed to have that skeg so you were correct to remove it. Adding that much fin area so far aft would adversely affect the balance of the boat and increase "Lee Helm", especially without the lowered centerboard. I would think it would have made the boat harder to turn as well. If you added a mizzen to the boat to make her a yawl or ketch...... the skeg might help, but with the standard sloop rig on the 25, the skeg would seem to move the center of lateral resistance (center of the area of "keel" that prevents leeway) too far aft of the center of effort (basically the center fore & aft of the sail plan) to balance correctly. Of course... if you never used the jib.... that balance might not be too bad? Or if the mast was raked aft excessively....?

O'Day 25 Skeg?

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