O'Day 23 winches

Shoaldrafter · Jan 12, 2012

snow

heymagic said:
i understand that Ed, I just don't have any contact information yet, or exactly what is available. When I do I will post it. This ain't my first rodeo pardner.
BTW. When I built that shed of mine, I ordered 2 by 12's for the trusses. They will hold 3980 lbs at the stringers if you strap over the top chord. Of course if the roof is covered with snow, that number would go down. I use two, ton and a half Coffing chain hoists and all the hardware and strapping is rated for 10+ tons. I wanted to be able to separate the trailers from the boats. I have found many trailers out there that are in less than safe condition. I also wanted to work on the trailer when the weather prevents sailing, ' cause the season is short up here in Wisconsin! It is also great to be able to lift another sailors boat so they can work as well. I need to find some full sized batts to get the insulation in for next winter. They are hard to find. The floor has Pex tubing in, so I'll rig up a boiler after the insulation. Gotta make some money first of course.

"A building greater than 100 yards from your home will improve your relationship with your spouse" <quote> Me

- - - - // - - - -
Sounds like you built an artificial igloo...

Ed K

Joe11688 · Feb 17, 2012

Hey Mike,
This summer when you come up to Westport Ma., you ought to take a ride to a couple of marine consignment stores in the Newport and Portsmouth areas. One is called the "Ship's Store" in Melville Boat Basin at the East PassageYachting Center. The other on is located in Newport RI. The guys who run these stores are nicest people you can ever find. They are very helpfull.
http://shipstoreri.com/Shop/tabid/57/List/1/Default.aspx
http://www.newportnautical.com/aboutus.asp
Also, there's another nautical consignment store in Wickfore RI.
http://marineconsignment.com/boat-parts/
Ray Broadhurst has been to this one and the one in Newport. You may find what you need at any one of these stores.
Good luck!
Joe

Shoaldrafter · Feb 18, 2012

Attention Captain Herring!!! see end of post!!!

heymagic said:
OK. Winches.
I'm in the middle of the project. The winches had to be removed to get at the lower gears, pawls, and to get the driveshaft out. There is a very small Spiralok ring (item 14 below), that you will almost certainly deform when you remove it. The larger ones you probably will be able to save, if they don't whiz by your ear on the way to wherever they all go to hide.
Parts are available for these winches in the Netherlands and some parts are available at Holland Marine in Ontario.
Here's the rub; the place in the Netherlands will accept a bank transfer only. That's $75 at my bank. Unless I could find a way to get around that, it is game over for me. Luckily, I don't need anything but the Spiroloks, and the pawl springs.
Holland marine claims to have the pawl springs, and the larger Spiroloks(item 13 below), but not the smaller ones. They want $2.25 for the pawl springs and a whopping $7.90 each for the rings! The shipping is $25. (Note to self. Don't do business with anyone that thinks I am stupid enough to pay $25 to ship parts that weigh a few ounces.)
I ordered the rings from McMasters-Carr on the 15th and received them today for $5.60 shipping. I paid $11.84 for a pack of ten of the small rings, and $2.90 each for the larger ones. Note: The originals are probably metric, but the large ones are identical, while the small ones are a tad smaller. Smalley Ring (in Illinois) that makes them, has the metric sizes as well. I just didn't see the need.
I would gladly buy these parts from the store here, even if they were a little more expensive, to say thanks for supporting the Forums. I think it would be silly to expect that they would carry parts for some Dutch winches made in the 70's
As for the pawl springs. Mine are not broken, but they have been doing their thing for a long time, I suspect. If I could compare them to a handfull of springs made for other winches, I'm sure some of them are the same. If anyone reading this is up near Mississauga Ontario and wants to pick up some pawl springs for me and send them a more reasonable way, I would be most grateful. Otherwise, these babies are going back together, all cleaned up, with new rings, fresh grease, and oiled pawls.

MikeB

View attachment 48635

The contact in the Netherlands:

Ronald Pronk

Winch Service Nederland

Service, Onderhoud, Revisie, Onderdelen, en in en verkoop van alle merken
bootlieren zowel nieuw als gebruikt.

Onderhoud en revisie van ankerlieren rolfokken en al uw andere
bootaccessoires

Ook voor al uw slijp - polijst - Anodiseer en Verchroom werkzaamheden.

| ENKES | LEWMAR | HARKEN | ANDERSEN | ANTAL | LVJ | HOLMATRO | MEISSNER |
HUTTON | ARCO | BARIENT | BARLOW |

| Tel: 0031 (0)6 482 62 936 | fax: 0031(0)40 20 24 097 | mail:
enkesservice@hetnet.nl |

| Tureluur 5, 5508-PX, Veldhoven | KvK 13038845 | VATnr: NL.8054.44.269.B01

Op al onze offertes, op alle opdrachten aan ons en op alle met ons gesloten
overeenkomsten zijn toepasselijk de METAALUNIEVOORWAARDEN, gedeponeerd ter
Griffie van de Rechtbank te Rotterdam, zoals deze luiden volgens de
laatstelijk aldaar neergelegde tekst.
De leveringsvoorwaarden worden u op verzoek toegezonden

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Mike,

Great post. While I do not have need for parts today, I can envision the need in the future.

What we need is a small time operator supplying winch springs in small amount in USA or Canada [Oh Captain Herring and moderators of forum].

And the rings info is helpfu. When I disassembled a set of winches that used rings, I was able to reuse all the rings. Modern rings often have tiny holes for reverse pliars but those rings did not nor did they have good place to get a grip.

I was able to use a dentist type tool to get under one end and then gradually work it around out of the grove.

As to springs and rings jumping, I always disassemble on work area with towels to catch the critters. And even with that, one or two hit the floor.

Working on boat winches should be off boat.

Again, thanks for sharing information. Now if our moderator will give copy to
Captain Herring to put in on line file somewhere. Or maybe he will seize the opportunity to become the winch spring captain...

and add to:

http://shop.odayowners.com/cat.php?51380/Winch Maintenance

Ed K

Technodad · Feb 19, 2012

heymagic said:
OK. Winches.

Holland marine claims to have the pawl springs, and the larger Spiroloks(item 13 below), but not the smaller ones. They want $2.25 for the pawl springs and a whopping $7.90 each for the rings! The shipping is $25. (Note to self. Don't do business with anyone that thinks I am stupid enough to pay $25 to ship parts that weigh a few ounces.)
I ordered the rings from McMasters-Carr on the 15th and received them today for $5.60 shipping. I paid $11.84 for a pack of ten of the small rings, and $2.90 each for the larger ones. Note: The originals are probably metric, but the large ones are identical, while the small ones are a tad smaller. Smalley Ring (in Illinois) that makes them, has the metric sizes as well. I just didn't see the need.
I would gladly buy these parts from the store here, even if they were a little more expensive, to say thanks for supporting the Forums. I think it would be silly to expect that they would carry parts for some Dutch winches made in the 70's
As for the pawl springs. Mine are not broken, but they have been doing their thing for a long time, I suspect. If I could compare them to a handfull of springs made for other winches, I'm sure some of them are the same. If anyone reading this is up near Mississauga Ontario and wants to pick up some pawl springs for me and send them a more reasonable way, I would be most grateful. Otherwise, these babies are going back together, all cleaned up, with new rings, fresh grease, and oiled pawls. QUOTE]

HeyMagic
Mike, I picked up my new 2 burner stove and PortaPotty at Holland Marine the other week, their prices are very reasonable on merchandise.
I will be going there again in a week or so again so could pick up your springs and mail them to you the cheapest way. Just arrange with them (Peter) what you need and I will pay for it. You can pay me anytime after you receive the springs. Would this help!!!
Maybe I need the same springs too? my winches work fine though.

Holland Marine Products (HMP) are about 20 mins away from me.

Cheers
John

Joe11688 · Feb 19, 2012

(quote) "Maybe I need the same springs too? my winches work fine though."

John,
Take it from me. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. I haven't touched my winches in years and I don't plan on messing with them now especially with boating season coming up.

Shoaldrafter · Feb 20, 2012

racing vs sailing

Trinkka said:
(quote) "Maybe I need the same springs too? my winches work fine though."

John,
Take it from me. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. I haven't touched my winches in years and I don't plan on messing with them now especially with boating season coming up.

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Guys who race need to keep winches in racing condition.

The rest of us just follow Joe's advice and only attempt to clean and fix if they need it. Lewmar recommends cleaning and greasing often during sailing seasons. For us casual users I question the recommendation.

On bigger winches, it ain't so easy. The potential loss of springs or pawls or rings is real. Replacement parts are hard to come be even if you can disassemble and put back together.

I would point out that Lewmar is the only company still around that sells replacement parts and instructions.

On the otherside, if they need fixing, not fixing will only cause more damage, like broken springs. I have disassembled some older winches to find most of springs broke...

Anyway, just a few more weeks...

Ed K

Shoaldrafter · Feb 21, 2012

winch parts

Mike said, "I also have a source for them and some sizing suggestions if anyone wants it."

Yes, Mike we would like the information. You might kick the boat before we need them and leave us without info...

Ed K

heymagic said:
Thanks John,
And thank you for the kind offer. I will call Peter and order 8 pawl springs tomorrow. It looks like I will have some extra Spiroloks, so if your winches use them I got 'em! I also have a source for them and some sizing suggestions if anyone wants it.
I have a different opinion about " if it ain't broke don't fix it" when it comes to the winches. They are really expensive, necessary, and easy to service.
When I got these apart, I noticed that there were not globs of grease inside. However, what there was had migrated to the pawls, making them very sticky. So they moved slowly sort of like a screen door closer! This could cause damage and slipping. Also, the grease in the bearings, was just starting to take on a little silver color when dissolved in the solvent. It takes just a light coating of grease on the gears, bearings, and shafts, and a light oil on the pawls. Too much grease is the opposite of what you want. And a good grease is imperative. I used a high quality calcium sulfonate based product, readily available at the local hardware store.
So I would say that if you can get at them, take a look inside and see what you have. If, like mine, you have to remove them from the boat to get at the stuff underneath, just think about how long it's been since anyone went to the trouble. I will pull the drums off these in the Fall to see what went on inside.
I am positively not an expert on winches, but I would be willing to help you get the info and parts you need to do the job.

Thanks again John.

Note!! This is a little rant about one of my pet peeves, inflated shipping costs.
I always hold hope, that any of the fine marine stores, will start thinking about the benefits to their business that would be realized by a little "creative shipping". I am more familiar with the aircraft parts suppliers, that at some point realized how beneficial that could be to their business. We all joke about the telemarketed products "only $6.95...plus $9.95 S&H". We all talk about the cost of marine products as well. I don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product, like for example, the butyl tape that MS has. It's good stuff and I want it. However, I would not pay $25 to get it from Maine to Wisconsin. If it costs $11.50 UPS flate rate, then that should be the charge, and BTW, it is just what he's asking for to his credit. So I will order some soon.
I like the "Where credit is due" column in Practical Sailor, where readers comment on good experiences they have had with marine products suppliers. It is high time, IMHO, that we see some positive comments regarding any business that thinks out of the box on their shipping practices.
MikeB

Flyboy69 · Feb 24, 2012

Talking about inflated shipping?? My pet peeve too!! I just dropped $350 on lights at Binnacle.com and I live 20min away from all the Marine places on Mississauga's lakeshore. they are Canadian, in Nova Scotia, and feature FREE shipping over $100 in Canada, And, the prices I find are better than our local chandleries. This is my new Goto place for parts etc.

Joe11688 · Feb 27, 2012

heymagic said:
View attachment 48975

Here's a diagram for the Barient 18 winches used on some of the newer than 1978 O'Day 23's.

MikeB

Mike,
Maybe you can buy a ring locally that is pretty close in tolerance to what you need and try to make it fit with a Dremel Tool grinding wheel. Just a thought.

Joe

Joe11688 · Feb 28, 2012

I see what you mean. I hope you find something Mike. Good luck.

Joe

Shoaldrafter · Feb 28, 2012

making steel rings

You would be surprised what a good machine shop can make or duplicate. I grew up in textiles and the machines constantly broke parts. My father who was a machinist took the broken piece to a machine shop and came back with either a fixed piece or new piece.

Recently, I remembered those days and when I needed a unique piece to fix my Liberty, I went to a machine shop less than a mile from my house. I made a drawing with measurements of what I needed to make the anchor secure. Went back four days later and exactly what I need was made for $10. If I pieced together what I needed from West Marine it came to either over $70 which was not exact or $170 again not exact. I got exact for $10 and fast.

Machine shops routinely make springs, which I almost persued before I found the Lewmar winch repair kit. I imagine that a small shop could make rings. Look for a machine shop that make parts for race cars or street rods. Those cars use all sorts of strange pieces and usually made of stainless or nickel chrome.

I used to know a shop that specialized in that sort of thing but when the old man died his son move somewhere. Probably closer to the race tracks. But they made all sorts of unique small metal things. They were metal artist. But what they made, made things work.

Ed K

Added warning:
It is the dreaded polyester mites eating gel-coat. These are micro organisms that came to earth on meteorites. Once in contact with salt water they become macro organisms. They thrive on petrochemical byproducts, specifically polyester resin. They bore microscopic holes in fiberglass boats at the source of heat. If you are sleeping on the boat they will sense your heat through the hull and then proceed to bore a teeny tiny hole. The hole is so small that water will not come in but large enough for the polyester mites to invade the boat. Once inside they immediately locate and devour their second favorite food...Sperry Topsiders (only used ones that were worn without socks).
These things are evil. Once they invade your boat they can only be stopped with either a moderately sized nuclear explosion or a can of Comet Cleanser. Good luck.

heymagic said:
Hi Joe,
I know it may seem like I am being a little fussy about that dang little ring. Because it is in a place that makes it necessary to remove the winch from the boat to get at it, combined with the fact that it has to take some pretty serious rotational pressure, I need to get it right. It needs to be Stainless Steel and have a ring radial wall that sticks out far enough out of the groove to support the gear and washer. The ones on the winch are close to 1.4 mm while the ones I bought were close to 1.14mm. Pretty narrow. So I'm talking to the ring manufacturers, who were willing to send me samples and were really helpfull. They have aerospace quality rings that are thicker so there is hope.The water will be stiff up here fo awhile up here anyway, and I have other projects on the boat anyway. I bet Ill find some that will work.
Below are some ring details to make it easier to see.

View attachment 49028

MikeB

Technodad · Mar 2, 2012

Hey Mike,
I now have your springs from Holland Marine Products,
can you PM me your address so I can mail them to you.

O'Day 23 winches

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