Help. My husband who knows nothing about the water or sailing, just called me from his friend's 30ft sailboat out of Cotuit. He wants to buy a boat. A big Boat, at least what I consider a big boat. So I need to do my homework, since I am the only one who knows how to sail. We need a boat that we can sleep over on and I need a head & galley. We would really be living on this boat on weekends with dogs. It also must be easy enough for two people to handle. We would only sail in light to moderate seas. Any suggestions on a make & model? I know we need to take lessons etc. I need a refresher course for sure. I would like to leave the mooring once in awhile though. I'm certanly not going to jump into anything. But, I think my husband is serious and that means I need to do some homework! I'm thinking used, 30-35 feet and wide at the beam. The budget is $20,000 - $30,000. Any suggestions (besides a lobotomy)?
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Look at the Tartan 30
Practical Sailor rates it the best boat for under $20K. Great sailing boat. A good place to start before you order a new Hinckley. Andy
Practical Sailor rates it the best boat for under $20K. Great sailing boat. A good place to start before you order a new Hinckley. Andy
Get one just like mine...
...OK, I remember, there was a time when I was just looking. In fact, I chose a '77 Hunter 27 over a '80 Catalina 30 based on draft! We checked the web to see what was available, and learn what prices were for different alternatives. But the best move by far was finding a good broker. You need someone who will work with you even though you may not be buying at a high price (Terry of Freeman Eckley knew that we were looking in the $10 to $20 thousand range from the start.) Tell the broker what your objectives and budget are, and then go look at boats. Look at lots of them. Test sail them with friends, or sellers. Lie down in the bunks. Think about air flow and ventilation. Sit on the seats. Sit at the tiller (wheel) and look over the bow. Check important features. When you find one you like,(that's right, the one you like) make an offer contingent on a survey. The one thing I would change is to find and hire a surveyor before I started looking, based on the best recommendations I could get. Knowing you will have agood survey lets you relax, and go with the boat you like best. Good luck - this if the beginning of a lot of fun! David Lady Lillie
...OK, I remember, there was a time when I was just looking. In fact, I chose a '77 Hunter 27 over a '80 Catalina 30 based on draft! We checked the web to see what was available, and learn what prices were for different alternatives. But the best move by far was finding a good broker. You need someone who will work with you even though you may not be buying at a high price (Terry of Freeman Eckley knew that we were looking in the $10 to $20 thousand range from the start.) Tell the broker what your objectives and budget are, and then go look at boats. Look at lots of them. Test sail them with friends, or sellers. Lie down in the bunks. Think about air flow and ventilation. Sit on the seats. Sit at the tiller (wheel) and look over the bow. Check important features. When you find one you like,(that's right, the one you like) make an offer contingent on a survey. The one thing I would change is to find and hire a surveyor before I started looking, based on the best recommendations I could get. Knowing you will have agood survey lets you relax, and go with the boat you like best. Good luck - this if the beginning of a lot of fun! David Lady Lillie
A Broker?????
What ever you do, don't get a freakin' broker, i.e. used car salesman, vacuum cleaner salesman, etc. I've been sailing for 23 years and the associations I've had with brokers have always been bad. They will sell you anything that has a for sale sign on it so they can get their commission and move to the next sucker. Find a boat you like. Have your husband's friend look at it. Negotiate a price and then get a good surveyor to check it out. That's the way to go. A broker won't try for a lower price because he works on commission. Stay away from a broker. Ron/KA5HZV P.S. Good luck and welcome aboard!
What ever you do, don't get a freakin' broker, i.e. used car salesman, vacuum cleaner salesman, etc. I've been sailing for 23 years and the associations I've had with brokers have always been bad. They will sell you anything that has a for sale sign on it so they can get their commission and move to the next sucker. Find a boat you like. Have your husband's friend look at it. Negotiate a price and then get a good surveyor to check it out. That's the way to go. A broker won't try for a lower price because he works on commission. Stay away from a broker. Ron/KA5HZV P.S. Good luck and welcome aboard!
I have one you may want to try
I am just North of you and if you want to try a Hunter 25 let me know. It may be smaller than you want but its great to learn on and less money than a 30. There is a photo in the boats for sale.
I am just North of you and if you want to try a Hunter 25 let me know. It may be smaller than you want but its great to learn on and less money than a 30. There is a photo in the boats for sale.
Boat Purchase Advice
For $20-$30K, you will be probably be looking at late 70's to mid 80's boats. I am going to assume you are both novice sailors, (pardon me if I'm wrong...), but suggest you not buy anything over 30 feet until your combined skills and knowledge increase. 27 or 28 feet might be even better for a starter boat. Some of the many boats to consider are: Catalina 27 & 30: Good sailors, reasonable quality vs. price Hunter 27 & 30: Similar to the Catalina's. Islander 28: good salior, reasonable quality. Erickson 27 & 30: Good sailors, reasonable qualiy vs. price. Tartan 30, or 80's Seafarer 30: Not as beamy / roomy as the Catalina's & Hunters, but good sailors, good quality. Pearson 30: Good quality, good sailor, roomy. Yankee 30: Not as beamy, but an excellent "sailing" boat if you can find one in good condition. Sabre 28: Another well built, good sailing boat. No matter what you decide on, spend the money for a good marine surveyor before purchasing any boat. This should not be considered an optional expense. Good Luck in your search.
For $20-$30K, you will be probably be looking at late 70's to mid 80's boats. I am going to assume you are both novice sailors, (pardon me if I'm wrong...), but suggest you not buy anything over 30 feet until your combined skills and knowledge increase. 27 or 28 feet might be even better for a starter boat. Some of the many boats to consider are: Catalina 27 & 30: Good sailors, reasonable quality vs. price Hunter 27 & 30: Similar to the Catalina's. Islander 28: good salior, reasonable quality. Erickson 27 & 30: Good sailors, reasonable qualiy vs. price. Tartan 30, or 80's Seafarer 30: Not as beamy / roomy as the Catalina's & Hunters, but good sailors, good quality. Pearson 30: Good quality, good sailor, roomy. Yankee 30: Not as beamy, but an excellent "sailing" boat if you can find one in good condition. Sabre 28: Another well built, good sailing boat. No matter what you decide on, spend the money for a good marine surveyor before purchasing any boat. This should not be considered an optional expense. Good Luck in your search.
Good advice
from everyone. Do your homework! The most important aspect of buying a boat is to take your time and look at LOTS of boats. Since you are thinking about taking lessons, that would be the first place to start. You would also get first hand knowledge of the waters you would be sailing and you can try different boats. Find a sailing school that has a variety of boats. That would help you decide what type of boat and what you would need in a boat to be comfortable. $$ well spent. Good luck and fair winds. -Roland s/v Fraulein II P.S. Was at the Cape on vacation last month - I'm originally fron Scituate - and visited Cotuit. What an absolutely beautiful place!
from everyone. Do your homework! The most important aspect of buying a boat is to take your time and look at LOTS of boats. Since you are thinking about taking lessons, that would be the first place to start. You would also get first hand knowledge of the waters you would be sailing and you can try different boats. Find a sailing school that has a variety of boats. That would help you decide what type of boat and what you would need in a boat to be comfortable. $$ well spent. Good luck and fair winds. -Roland s/v Fraulein II P.S. Was at the Cape on vacation last month - I'm originally fron Scituate - and visited Cotuit. What an absolutely beautiful place!
Here's a little reality...
You could be off on a great adventure! And then again, you may find after owning the boat for a year that this was as stupid as buying that Nehru Suit back in the late 70's. To protect yourself - and assuming like most folks you won't have infinite time nor energy to research your purchase - I'd suggest you try to follow this general advice: 1. Along with your own independent efforts, use a broker. This broker will come highly recommended, he will have been a broker in the area for at least 15 years without interruption, and he will be with a firm that's been in business that long. This does not guarantee to you that he is a Saint, but he should have a good knowledge of the market and the more common boats. Doing some work on your own, it will become apparent if he does not. You will not seriously consider any boats s/he shows you that his firm has listed, as he is then working for the seller. 2. Your needs are very basic and so should be your boat. Understand that you can either buy "a lot of boat" and, given your budget, you'll get lots of old/used gear and an older/used boat...or you can buy a smaller boat and, by extension, it will be newer with gear less heavily used. Please don't underestimate the money and effort it takes to repair boats that have seen 10+ years of hot summers, frigid winters, sudden thunderstorms, etc. 3. Buy one of the well-known boats in your area, the ones you see all over the place. Catalina, Hunter (ugh...), Beneteau - one of the boats that's built in assembly-line fashion, holds its value, has all the basic amenities, and can be easily resold when either a) you really take to this new adventure and want to Move Up...or b) it turns out not to be a great idea and you want to Get Out. Good luck! This can be a fun, fun project. Amidst all the details and angst, don't overlook the fun of shopping for a new boat/family member/lifestyle! Jack
You could be off on a great adventure! And then again, you may find after owning the boat for a year that this was as stupid as buying that Nehru Suit back in the late 70's. To protect yourself - and assuming like most folks you won't have infinite time nor energy to research your purchase - I'd suggest you try to follow this general advice: 1. Along with your own independent efforts, use a broker. This broker will come highly recommended, he will have been a broker in the area for at least 15 years without interruption, and he will be with a firm that's been in business that long. This does not guarantee to you that he is a Saint, but he should have a good knowledge of the market and the more common boats. Doing some work on your own, it will become apparent if he does not. You will not seriously consider any boats s/he shows you that his firm has listed, as he is then working for the seller. 2. Your needs are very basic and so should be your boat. Understand that you can either buy "a lot of boat" and, given your budget, you'll get lots of old/used gear and an older/used boat...or you can buy a smaller boat and, by extension, it will be newer with gear less heavily used. Please don't underestimate the money and effort it takes to repair boats that have seen 10+ years of hot summers, frigid winters, sudden thunderstorms, etc. 3. Buy one of the well-known boats in your area, the ones you see all over the place. Catalina, Hunter (ugh...), Beneteau - one of the boats that's built in assembly-line fashion, holds its value, has all the basic amenities, and can be easily resold when either a) you really take to this new adventure and want to Move Up...or b) it turns out not to be a great idea and you want to Get Out. Good luck! This can be a fun, fun project. Amidst all the details and angst, don't overlook the fun of shopping for a new boat/family member/lifestyle! Jack
Think smaller?
Denise, I sail a Catalina 27 out of the Bass River in Dennis, purchased last year. We also had similar requirements, (but smaller purse) and chose theC- 27 because of 1) lots around a attractive prices and 2) big enough (barely) 3) ease of single-handing and 4) draft. If you are sailing Nantucket Sound out of Cotuit, anything much over 4 feet draft is pretty challenging in our dredged Cape harbors, and near-shore shoaling. I also have been surprised at the upkeep costs, and the bigger the boat, the bigger those costs. So I would suggest nothing larger than a 30 footer (Catalinas are nice and plentiful in your price range) and watch that fathometer! Roger
Denise, I sail a Catalina 27 out of the Bass River in Dennis, purchased last year. We also had similar requirements, (but smaller purse) and chose theC- 27 because of 1) lots around a attractive prices and 2) big enough (barely) 3) ease of single-handing and 4) draft. If you are sailing Nantucket Sound out of Cotuit, anything much over 4 feet draft is pretty challenging in our dredged Cape harbors, and near-shore shoaling. I also have been surprised at the upkeep costs, and the bigger the boat, the bigger those costs. So I would suggest nothing larger than a 30 footer (Catalinas are nice and plentiful in your price range) and watch that fathometer! Roger
I love my Catalina 30
I had pretty much the same criteria as you do when I bought my boat & I LOVE it. Mine needed some work, but when it was all said & done a 1977 C-30 with a new 150% Genoa, new diesel, rudder, bottom job & more was actually towards the lower end of your price range. It's roomy for a 30 footer, easy to sail with 2, easy to single hand with an autopilot, and my girlfriend & I have spent 10 days on it while vacationing in Nantucket. Very comfortable for 2. In addition, I understand that there have been over 10,000 C-30's made since 1975. Almost ANY part I might want for the boat is still available from the factory. TONS of resources are available on how to fix/upgrade/maintain your boat, and the service you will get from Catalina Yachts is OUTSTANDING. Case in point: I was having some trouble with some upgrades I was doing. They had EVERY part I needed and faxed me directions with illustrations on how to do what needed to be done. Everything was mailed to my house within a week, including a new rudder. Many of the faxed directions didn't even involve purchasing parts from Catalina (like how to convert from a gas engine to a diesel) they just offered the guidance to help their customers out. I can't say enough about this boat. There are many to choose from, so you are bound to find one that meets your needs, and they are easy to sell due to their popularity & the fact that Catalina has such great support. Attached is a link to a typical C-30 site...check out the pictures & see if it looks good to you. Good luck with your search!!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
I had pretty much the same criteria as you do when I bought my boat & I LOVE it. Mine needed some work, but when it was all said & done a 1977 C-30 with a new 150% Genoa, new diesel, rudder, bottom job & more was actually towards the lower end of your price range. It's roomy for a 30 footer, easy to sail with 2, easy to single hand with an autopilot, and my girlfriend & I have spent 10 days on it while vacationing in Nantucket. Very comfortable for 2. In addition, I understand that there have been over 10,000 C-30's made since 1975. Almost ANY part I might want for the boat is still available from the factory. TONS of resources are available on how to fix/upgrade/maintain your boat, and the service you will get from Catalina Yachts is OUTSTANDING. Case in point: I was having some trouble with some upgrades I was doing. They had EVERY part I needed and faxed me directions with illustrations on how to do what needed to be done. Everything was mailed to my house within a week, including a new rudder. Many of the faxed directions didn't even involve purchasing parts from Catalina (like how to convert from a gas engine to a diesel) they just offered the guidance to help their customers out. I can't say enough about this boat. There are many to choose from, so you are bound to find one that meets your needs, and they are easy to sell due to their popularity & the fact that Catalina has such great support. Attached is a link to a typical C-30 site...check out the pictures & see if it looks good to you. Good luck with your search!!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
Vessel purchase
Even though I am currently a Hunter owner I second Allen's comments on the Catalina 30. More of this model has been built than any other sailboat, other than daysailers. I owned a Tartan 30 and it was a rugged little boat that sailed well but it had nowhere near the liveability that the C 30 has.
Even though I am currently a Hunter owner I second Allen's comments on the Catalina 30. More of this model has been built than any other sailboat, other than daysailers. I owned a Tartan 30 and it was a rugged little boat that sailed well but it had nowhere near the liveability that the C 30 has.
Try THis
Go on the the following site: www.yachtworld.com Select Boats for Sale, Used, Sail, size 27 ft to 34 ft, then enter price range. You said 20000 to 30000 was your budget. Enter that. Hit search and voila you will have many to chose from. Browse to your hearts content and you will see all kinds of boats, most with pictures etc. There is always room to negotiate but this will give you an idea what is out there. Then go look at similar boats in your area. Since you live in New England should be no problem. Don't forget equipmment and its age when comparing. Once you have narrowed your choices down start looking at other boat for sale sites such as on this site, Soundings etc. Happy hunting
Go on the the following site: www.yachtworld.com Select Boats for Sale, Used, Sail, size 27 ft to 34 ft, then enter price range. You said 20000 to 30000 was your budget. Enter that. Hit search and voila you will have many to chose from. Browse to your hearts content and you will see all kinds of boats, most with pictures etc. There is always room to negotiate but this will give you an idea what is out there. Then go look at similar boats in your area. Since you live in New England should be no problem. Don't forget equipmment and its age when comparing. Once you have narrowed your choices down start looking at other boat for sale sites such as on this site, Soundings etc. Happy hunting
Catalina 30
With your budget, I think a C30 can't be beat. I know I'm prejudiced but it's so dang roomy and certainly affordable! They're still in business so if you have problems, you have great resources. It's really ideal for the needs you stated. LaDonna
With your budget, I think a C30 can't be beat. I know I'm prejudiced but it's so dang roomy and certainly affordable! They're still in business so if you have problems, you have great resources. It's really ideal for the needs you stated. LaDonna
I am in your area. I highly recommend this broker
I was in your place a few years ago. Wanted a boat and didn't know what I needed. I worked with a guy named Warren Trafton of Sailing Yachts Rhode Island. He listens to you and your requirements and will work with you to find a great boat. He found me a Catalina 36. Great boat that has been god to me these few years. He is on the web at the yachtworld.com. Look under Rhode Island brokers. Good luck and happy hunting. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
I was in your place a few years ago. Wanted a boat and didn't know what I needed. I worked with a guy named Warren Trafton of Sailing Yachts Rhode Island. He listens to you and your requirements and will work with you to find a great boat. He found me a Catalina 36. Great boat that has been god to me these few years. He is on the web at the yachtworld.com. Look under Rhode Island brokers. Good luck and happy hunting. Les Murray s/v Ceilidh '86 C-36 #560
More advice
I have been sailing for more than 40 years. I have sailed in boats ranging in size from a 5-0-5 (one-design racing boat) to a C&C 40. When I moved to Long Island from Maryland I purchased a very old Catalina 27. Racing with a novice crew, we had a lot of foul-ups, and I was impressed that nothing on that boat ever broke. When it was time to move up, I moved to a Catalina 30. Although now my crew was more experienced, we still found the boat to be very rugged, and easy to sail. Catalina's factory support is terrific. Although my boat is now 20 years old, they still have (or make) parts for it. If they don't have the parts, they will direct me to a good source. Also, there is a great C30 owners association where you can get all sorts of technical advice. All in all, you can't go wrong with a Catalina 30 at the right price.
I have been sailing for more than 40 years. I have sailed in boats ranging in size from a 5-0-5 (one-design racing boat) to a C&C 40. When I moved to Long Island from Maryland I purchased a very old Catalina 27. Racing with a novice crew, we had a lot of foul-ups, and I was impressed that nothing on that boat ever broke. When it was time to move up, I moved to a Catalina 30. Although now my crew was more experienced, we still found the boat to be very rugged, and easy to sail. Catalina's factory support is terrific. Although my boat is now 20 years old, they still have (or make) parts for it. If they don't have the parts, they will direct me to a good source. Also, there is a great C30 owners association where you can get all sorts of technical advice. All in all, you can't go wrong with a Catalina 30 at the right price.
Broker...Broker...Broker
No matter how low you get the seller to go you are still paying 6% more than if you deal with the seller yourself. That's $1800 on a 30K boat. There are so many boats for sale these days why would anyone want to use a broker? He isn't finding a boat for you, he's finding a buyer for the other guy. Common CENTS here.... and dollars, too!
No matter how low you get the seller to go you are still paying 6% more than if you deal with the seller yourself. That's $1800 on a 30K boat. There are so many boats for sale these days why would anyone want to use a broker? He isn't finding a boat for you, he's finding a buyer for the other guy. Common CENTS here.... and dollars, too!
Here's a little reality... for Jack Tyler
If the broker sells you a boat not listed by his firm he still gets one half of the broker fee...3% or $900 on a 30K boat. So, who is he working for now? And the firm listing the boat also gets $900. What a deal. People don't use a broker to find a car so why a boat?? "Gee, honey. Daddy doesn't have money to buy your shoes for school, but he's a good broker and won't take advantage of these nice people with $30,000 to spend." Somebody just Shoot Me!
If the broker sells you a boat not listed by his firm he still gets one half of the broker fee...3% or $900 on a 30K boat. So, who is he working for now? And the firm listing the boat also gets $900. What a deal. People don't use a broker to find a car so why a boat?? "Gee, honey. Daddy doesn't have money to buy your shoes for school, but he's a good broker and won't take advantage of these nice people with $30,000 to spend." Somebody just Shoot Me!
Novice? Broker.
For a first-time buyer fairly new to sailing, there's no other way to, in my opinion, than a broker you trust. Granted, you've got to find someone good who will really help you find what you need, and not slime you with their bias or sell you what they have at the dock. but the right broker can be invaluable in the search. Not to mention how nice it is to have an advisor in the buying process. I disagree with the concept that you're always paying 6-10% more. I do not believe that all sellers automatically increase their price to cover the brokerage fee.
For a first-time buyer fairly new to sailing, there's no other way to, in my opinion, than a broker you trust. Granted, you've got to find someone good who will really help you find what you need, and not slime you with their bias or sell you what they have at the dock. but the right broker can be invaluable in the search. Not to mention how nice it is to have an advisor in the buying process. I disagree with the concept that you're always paying 6-10% more. I do not believe that all sellers automatically increase their price to cover the brokerage fee.
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