Non-toxic Bottom Paints

Sumner · Jan 2, 2011

I read most of that article and they say that the non-toxic will not slow growth:

"Although nontoxic coatings will not slow growth, they can be effective when used in a strategic combination with other methods. Nontoxic antifouling strategies may combine nontoxic coatings with mechanical hull cleaning, slip liners, or boat lifts."

I guess my question is what are you trying to achieve with a bottom paint. Stop or try and prevent blistering? Making it easier to remove growth?

If you are trying to stop or slow growth maybe take a second look at what we are using. I'm not sure if you have read the info on what we are using or not:

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Cukote-Biocide-Plus-Self-Polishing-Bottom-Paint-GL-3500-GL.htm

http://www.seahawkpaints.com/Our-Products/Product/Cukote-Biocide-Plus.aspx

http://www.seahawkpaints.com/Libraries/Tech_Sheets/CukoteBiocide_tech_data.sflb.ashx

It is copper based, but considered in almost the 'low category' of copper in the article you posted. It is a 'hard self-polishing' and as I've mentioned before I was surprise that none wore off on the bunks on the 2200 mile trip to Florida and so far I can run my hand over it or rub up against it and not have it all over me. Don't put all ablatives or self polishing bottom paints in one group.

It is designed for trailered boats.

On the toxic part I guess everyone has different views on their impact on the environment. Our boat will be in the water hopefully for about 3 to 3 1/2 months during a 12 month period this last and this year and won't be in congested harbors where copper levels can accumulate as per that article. Most years it might only be in the water 1-2 months. As of right now I can live with that impact.

We do other things to lighten our impact on the environment, such as our house is very well insulated and uses solar and wood heat and only uses about 1 1/2 cords of wood to heat about 2600 square feet a year. We use a swamp cooler and not air conditioning during the summer. Our primary car gets 30 mpg and we only drive it about 4000 to 5000 miles a year. The boat tow vehicle, a Suburban, gets 17 without the boat and 11-12 with it and we used it about 5000 miles last year and will use it about 6000-7000 this year with our east coast trip and probably our only one. In the future the Suburban will probably only be used about 3000-4000 miles for western trips closer to home. I feel our overall impact is pretty low compared to most people in the U.S., but very high compared to some other people around the globe. Not sure how it compares to your overall impact.

One last note and that is that if we wouldn't of been going to the east coast and leaving the boat in the water for extended periods the boat wouldn't of gotten the barrier coat or the bottom paint, but it did

.

c ya and hope you get back with us on what you are going to use and later how happy you are with it,

Sum

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Don S/V ILLusion · Jan 2, 2011

Unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between toxicity and efficacy of bottom paint.
Personally, I consider it ironic that we seem to worry about the toxicity of bottom paint while ignoring an equally if not more toxic pollutant we typically pour into the marine environment in huge quantities from our bilge pumps, sink drains, shower, etc; that being fresh water.
Along the lines of this thread, has anyone had a good experience with any of the so-called non-toxic bottom paints?

Tom Hoffman · Jan 2, 2011

Petit - EasyPoxy. Remember the Smurf post? I used it below the water line and this spring will use it on the whole top. The slime of the mississippi, just washed off with the rain and the zebra muscles didn't seem to like it either.

Tom...

Sumner · Jan 2, 2011

Tom Hoffman said:
Petit - EasyPoxy. Remember the Smurf post? I used it below the water line and this spring will use it on the whole top. The slime of the mississippi, just washed off with the rain and the zebra muscles didn't seem to like it either.

Tom...

Hi Tom, interesting stuff. I'm looking for something to use for the boot stripe and below the deck.

I'm wonder what they told you about using it below the water line. Their tech sheet .....

http://www.pettitpaint.com/fileshare/tech_bulletins/easyproxy.pdf

....says:

"Although not recommended for constant immersion, Easypoxy can be used on the bottoms of dry-sailed boats that will be in water no more than two days at a time."

I'll have to keep that paint in mind for what we are doing, thanks it might be a good option,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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gabriolayankee · Jan 2, 2011

http://www.epaint.com/

catsailor · Jan 2, 2011

dscribner said:
I'm researching bottom paints. I've gotten some good information from the forum, but I have time before I start the project so I'm still looking around for as much information as I can handle. I'm looking for something hard and non-ablative, but non-toxic is good too. This is some interesting reading on the subject. What happens if copper is outlawed here like in Sweden? It's probably going to happen.

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/pdf/Seagrant_Nontoxic_AntifoulingII.pdf

Crazy thread.

No, I seriously doubt the California talk will reach Maine (you have tides, they have no tide and more people), and if it does, the paint companies will have answers.

Sumner, bottom paint has nothing to do with blisters. That is about the resin used in the boat, epoxy barrier coats, and whether you keep your boat in the water enough. Google "blisters."

You didn't state why you hate ablative paints. You didn't state whether you keep your boat in the water. Hard paints don't generally stick to ablative paints (check) so you will need to strip the boat this year and every few years (to limit build-up, not required with soft paint). Fresh water solutions (slippery paint) won't work for you, if you stay in. Subscribe to Practical Sailor; they've done some very good testing.

It is really important to figure out wither you are a trailer sailer, or if you stay in the water; totally different. IF you are staying in the water, graze a different forum.

Sumner · Jan 2, 2011

catsailor said:
..Sumner, bottom paint has nothing to do with blisters. ....

I never said it did. I was asking what he was trying to accomplish. I have barrier paint under the bottom paint on our boat and believe it or not do understand the difference,

Sum

Tom Hoffman · Jan 2, 2011

Sumner,

I didn't know about that. The guy who recommended it for the below water line was a yacht designer and ships artichitect. He said it would seal the sanding scratches that I put on the gel coat getting rid of the old bottom paint.

The boat was in the Mississippi for 6 weeks continuos. When we pulled it out, it had a very light coat of slime and no zebra muscles. I helped a friend pull his at the same time and his had been in all summer. 4 months or so. His had weed growth and lots of zebra muscles.

I brought mine home and just left it on the trailer outside until 3 weeks ago and the rain pretty much washed it clean. This spring I will scrub with warm soapy water and get it clean.

I used it to paint inside and it went on very nicely. We masked everything and painted and were very pleased. This coming spring we will paint the deck all white using the same paint.

I have never painted with paint that went on as nice as this does. It self levels to a beautiful glossy shine.

Tom...

Sumner · Jan 2, 2011

Tom Hoffman said:
....I have never painted with paint that went on as nice as this does. It self levels to a beautiful glossy shine.

Tom...

Sounds like you don't have anything to worry about. I think the paint companies a lot of times put stuff in there like that just so they have a way to escape liability. I've done stuff with car paint that wasn't recommended with also no problems.

Did you use the 'roll and tip' method to apply it. I'll seriously consider it,

Sum

seanshine · Jan 2, 2011

Actually, if you are really that concerned about being environmentally friendly, you should sell your boat and just stay home. In most marinas, it is an infraction to even wash your boat with soap.

Tom Hoffman · Jan 3, 2011

Sumner said:
Sounds like you don't have anything to worry about. I think the paint companies a lot of times put stuff in there like that just so they have a way to escape liability. I've done stuff with car paint that wasn't recommended with also no problems.

Did you use the 'roll and tip' method to apply it. I'll seriously consider it,

Sum

Yes, I just rolled and tipped like they show on the Jamestown web site demonstration video.

If you don't get to vigerous, and get bubbles in the paint. You don't even have to do much tipping. I used a small foam roller with a firm foam. It was for very smooth surfaces. Just kept a foam brush in one hand and the roller in the other and only tipped where I saw a need. My wife did most of the interior, and it looks very nice. She claims she sees some areas that need a touch up, but I haven't noticed any yet.

Any way it sure beats the old original mustard yellow interior color.

Tom Hoffman · Jan 3, 2011

seanshine said:
Actually, if you are really that concerned about being environmentally friendly, you should sell your boat and just stay home. In most marinas, it is an infraction to even wash your boat with soap.

In school, I barely got through fractions, never heard of "infractions"!!!

Of course math was never my strong suit. I am sure glad they have GPS now I would have never been able to navigate around a bath tub using a
s--tant, let alone across a river. Don't even want to think about a lake.

I will have to study up on those infraction thingies....

CaptDon01 · Jan 3, 2011

catsailor said:
Crazy thread.

No, I seriously doubt the California talk will reach Maine (you have tides, they have no tide and more people), and if it does, the paint companies will have answers.

California doesn't have tides?

News to me.....

Don

zeehag · Jan 3, 2011

catsailor said:
Crazy thread.

No, I seriously doubt the California talk will reach Maine (you have tides, they have no tide and more people), and if it does, the paint companies will have answers.

Sumner, bottom paint has nothing to do with blisters. That is about the resin used in the boat, epoxy barrier coats, and whether you keep your boat in the water enough. Google "blisters."

You didn't state why you hate ablative paints. You didn't state whether you keep your boat in the water. Hard paints don't generally stick to ablative paints (check) so you will need to strip the boat this year and every few years (to limit build-up, not required with soft paint). Fresh water solutions (slippery paint) won't work for you, if you stay in. Subscribe to Practical Sailor; they've done some very good testing.

It is really important to figure out wither you are a trailer sailer, or if you stay in the water; totally different. IF you are staying in the water, graze a different forum.

when did we cease the tidal flow in kali??? when did this happen???? did the polar shift already happen??? what did i miss???? if we havenjt tidal flow here in kali, then wtf is that mud doing for 20 yards in my way of reaching shore with my dink???? change only happens every 6 hours or so.....
ye can also get a ticket (infraction time) for pouring sea water over your de3cks and allowing it to return to the sea. yay corporate amerikuh for putting the blame for corporate opulance and waste and runoff onto the patsy-- the recreational boater...

catsailor · Jan 3, 2011

Sumner said:
I never said it did. I was asking what he was trying to accomplish. I have barrier paint under the bottom paint on our boat and believe it or not do understand the difference,

Sum

No slight intended.

I did have a friend that thought bottom paint somehow protected his boat, even though he was never in the water for more than 12 hours. A waste of money, of course.

catsailor · Jan 3, 2011

zeehag said:
when did we cease the tidal flow in kali??? when did this happen???? did the polar shift already happen??? what did i miss???? if we havenjt tidal flow here in kali, then wtf is that mud doing for 20 yards in my way of reaching shore with my dink???? change only happens every 6 hours or so.....
ye can also get a ticket (infraction time) for pouring sea water over your de3cks and allowing it to return to the sea. yay corporate amerikuh for putting the blame for corporate opulance and waste and runoff onto the patsy-- the recreational boater...

You haven't seen Maine tides!

zeehag · Jan 3, 2011

catsailor said:
You haven't seen Maine tides!

i lived back east an dbeen down east-- we have same tides-- 6-8 ft and with shallow shelf seems like forever-- youhave rocky places and we have imported saand as the tides wash ours away and leave mud lol
no one willtake the lil dahlinks out to the mudflats LOL--thos emudflats are full of heavymetals and toxins from NASSCO shopbuilders, USN , rockwell, northrup, grumman and the others who without any forethought dumped and dumped and some STILL dump into this bay. also the uscg-- dumped old batteries , allegedly, in convair cove,..LOL..... yet this is all due to recreational boating in recent years.LOL.. lets get real here. the pcb cap in the place known as convair cove has begun to leak and pcbs seep into sdbay again....yet this is all due to the recreational boater these days.mebbe someone needs to cease with the beatings on the already broken backs of recreational bosting to stop this bs -- is the voters ....LOL vote in more environmental protection laws.