The search continues. Tukki Bird is not going home with Barbara and Peter. These are good people, nice, friendly, enthusiastic folks, and want a boat badly. But they want a good boat. Tukki Bird is probably a good boat, just the little diesel is worn completely out, or seriously ill. Not sure which. It smokes terribly bad, doesn't seem to have any power, and when shut down, it doesn't quit running, it spools down like a jet engine. The owner is obviously lying about several things, and I managed to catch him in enough obvious lies to make it impossible to believe anything he says. So, when Barbara and Peter asked what I thought, I told them I thought they should walk away. Which they did. They got their money back from the broker and went home without the boat. I am sorry they sort of got their bubble busted, but I am happy that I could have some small part in helping them to not get taken.
- Status
And the silver lining.....
is that they didn't have to pay for a survey. Kudos to you Nice N Easy, for giving them expert advice and helping them avoid another disaster.
The good news is that there are plenty of boats out there, and they'll find a good one - plus all of this is an excellent learning situation. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
is that they didn't have to pay for a survey. Kudos to you Nice N Easy, for giving them expert advice and helping them avoid another disaster.
The good news is that there are plenty of boats out there, and they'll find a good one - plus all of this is an excellent learning situation. Cheers, Bob s/y X SAIL R 8
Is there really a silver lining?
I think not. Yes they saved some money because Nice n Easy (Phil?) helped them out. What I get is that they were very emotionally invested in this boat and that this was a rather hard landing. Unless you are a knowledgable boat owner in some senses you can be at the mercy of your surveyor (if you hire one). Had he not helped them out they might have decided to take her anyway and then tried to do the 24 hour passage with a rather iffy motor. That could have been a big mistake. Whatever was wrong with the little diesel was definitely worth walking away from unless the owner was willing to drop the price by, oh, say 5 - 6K, as that is just the cost of buying a new-ish diesel engine and might not cover installation. But who is to say that a good diesel mechanic and some parts could not get that old engine working at near prime? Diesel engines tend to sputter a lot when shutting down as since there is no spark plug the spinning engine continues to create the pressure needed for the fuel to ignite which prolongs the shut down sequence. With a gas engine once you shut off the ignition system there are no more cylindar explosions to keep it going. It also sounds like the transmission needed to be looked into if as you say it doesn't have any power even with a new 3 blade prop. The sad fact of the matter is that this owner and dealer will continue to try to get their 10k pricetag from unsuspecting boat buyers. Sadder still was the connection they had with the name of the boat (a childhood name for their daughter if I remember correctly) that made them really want to buy this boat. The name of the boat was purely a coincidence, not a message from above. I know that it is hard not to fall in love with a boat (if you are that kind of person) but all of this proves that you can not let your guard down for one second, or get emotionally involved, with all that you are told and think you see. Try to save that for when you actually own your intended boat. Ross had it about right. 4 - 6K would be a good offering price for this boat. Higher if the diesel could be saved. That was a good thing you did Nice n Easy and you are lucky that they don't want to shoot the messenger. It sounds rather the opposite. Am I surprised? No. I could have used you when I bought my boat 4 years ago but the PO was a good, honest person who spent an entire day with me showing me all he could in that time. I think that I know a lot more about a boat's systems now than I used to, but that has only come from being a hands on owner of my own boat and learning a bit from the ground up.
I think not. Yes they saved some money because Nice n Easy (Phil?) helped them out. What I get is that they were very emotionally invested in this boat and that this was a rather hard landing. Unless you are a knowledgable boat owner in some senses you can be at the mercy of your surveyor (if you hire one). Had he not helped them out they might have decided to take her anyway and then tried to do the 24 hour passage with a rather iffy motor. That could have been a big mistake. Whatever was wrong with the little diesel was definitely worth walking away from unless the owner was willing to drop the price by, oh, say 5 - 6K, as that is just the cost of buying a new-ish diesel engine and might not cover installation. But who is to say that a good diesel mechanic and some parts could not get that old engine working at near prime? Diesel engines tend to sputter a lot when shutting down as since there is no spark plug the spinning engine continues to create the pressure needed for the fuel to ignite which prolongs the shut down sequence. With a gas engine once you shut off the ignition system there are no more cylindar explosions to keep it going. It also sounds like the transmission needed to be looked into if as you say it doesn't have any power even with a new 3 blade prop. The sad fact of the matter is that this owner and dealer will continue to try to get their 10k pricetag from unsuspecting boat buyers. Sadder still was the connection they had with the name of the boat (a childhood name for their daughter if I remember correctly) that made them really want to buy this boat. The name of the boat was purely a coincidence, not a message from above. I know that it is hard not to fall in love with a boat (if you are that kind of person) but all of this proves that you can not let your guard down for one second, or get emotionally involved, with all that you are told and think you see. Try to save that for when you actually own your intended boat. Ross had it about right. 4 - 6K would be a good offering price for this boat. Higher if the diesel could be saved. That was a good thing you did Nice n Easy and you are lucky that they don't want to shoot the messenger. It sounds rather the opposite. Am I surprised? No. I could have used you when I bought my boat 4 years ago but the PO was a good, honest person who spent an entire day with me showing me all he could in that time. I think that I know a lot more about a boat's systems now than I used to, but that has only come from being a hands on owner of my own boat and learning a bit from the ground up.
Sorry for Your Disapointment
The sage wisdom I just gave my daughter the other night towards boys probably apllies to finding a boat as well. That is; "They are like buses, if you miss one another will be along in fifteen minutes." I'll continue to keep an eye out for prospects for you. A boat not a boy or a bus I mean.
The sage wisdom I just gave my daughter the other night towards boys probably apllies to finding a boat as well. That is; "They are like buses, if you miss one another will be along in fifteen minutes." I'll continue to keep an eye out for prospects for you. A boat not a boy or a bus I mean.
Good call...
Nice to see someone giving their experience to someone who lacks experience. B&P will eventually learn the ropes, but I am glad they made a good decision based on tangible evidence. As for the seller, maybe they'll think twice next time.
Nice to see someone giving their experience to someone who lacks experience. B&P will eventually learn the ropes, but I am glad they made a good decision based on tangible evidence. As for the seller, maybe they'll think twice next time.
another one
I'm glad they made the decision to walk away, there are a lot of really good boats out there, I'm sure they will find the right one. Kudos to Nice n Easy for stopping what could have been a bad decision. We all want their first season to be sailing, not stuck in the bilge working. Someday they will look back and laugh about the wreck they almost bought.
I'm glad they made the decision to walk away, there are a lot of really good boats out there, I'm sure they will find the right one. Kudos to Nice n Easy for stopping what could have been a bad decision. We all want their first season to be sailing, not stuck in the bilge working. Someday they will look back and laugh about the wreck they almost bought.
Southwinds Magazine
There is an ODay 30 advertised in the May issue. You can pick up a free copy at WM used to be abunch of other places too. May be worth checking on. Come to think of it they have a spot for free ads why not put an ad in with what you are looking for. Someone may rather their much loved boat go to a family who is going to cherish it as much or more than let it go to some guy trying to scalp him on it. Just a thought.
There is an ODay 30 advertised in the May issue. You can pick up a free copy at WM used to be abunch of other places too. May be worth checking on. Come to think of it they have a spot for free ads why not put an ad in with what you are looking for. Someone may rather their much loved boat go to a family who is going to cherish it as much or more than let it go to some guy trying to scalp him on it. Just a thought.
good old boats
Hello, For all you who have been writing about how easy it is to find a good old cheap boat, have you actually looked for one recently? It seems that it is more difficult than it seems, as Seadance has been looking for some time, and has not been able to find one. Barry
Hello, For all you who have been writing about how easy it is to find a good old cheap boat, have you actually looked for one recently? It seems that it is more difficult than it seems, as Seadance has been looking for some time, and has not been able to find one. Barry
This past weekend
First: Seadance is lucky to have found out the boat is not right! I just returned from a car visit to my old prt of call, Racine WI. When sailing out of Racine, I had always stored at Riverside Marina and had bought 2 boats from them. When I relocated out here to L Ontario, one of the owners told me they would give me a boat to sleep on when I returned for a visit, so I would not have to pay for a hotel. We spent the weekend on an 80's vintage Cal 25 they took in on trade. What a nice boat - and this coming from a guy who owns a 34. It had an inboard diesel and was nicely maintained. Had a dodger and a furler and was a fresh water boat and the asking price is $8500. We have a lot of great deals up here on the Great Lakes.
First: Seadance is lucky to have found out the boat is not right! I just returned from a car visit to my old prt of call, Racine WI. When sailing out of Racine, I had always stored at Riverside Marina and had bought 2 boats from them. When I relocated out here to L Ontario, one of the owners told me they would give me a boat to sleep on when I returned for a visit, so I would not have to pay for a hotel. We spent the weekend on an 80's vintage Cal 25 they took in on trade. What a nice boat - and this coming from a guy who owns a 34. It had an inboard diesel and was nicely maintained. Had a dodger and a furler and was a fresh water boat and the asking price is $8500. We have a lot of great deals up here on the Great Lakes.
You have to admit it
salt water boats take a beating. I'm not saying fresh water boats are in impeccable condition. But they seem to be in better shape when you compare year to year. If I were to look for a sailboat, I would be looking inland, on a lake somewhere. Just a thought. Southern boats are used mostly year round where northern boats see half use. Knowledge is you key. I'm sad that the deal fell through. But glad she knew enough to keep pressing on. The ideal boat is out there. Maybe it won't be the exact one you want or need. How about finding one that will work for the time being and keep up the search while enjoying your life. Just a thought Keep it up, Ctskip
salt water boats take a beating. I'm not saying fresh water boats are in impeccable condition. But they seem to be in better shape when you compare year to year. If I were to look for a sailboat, I would be looking inland, on a lake somewhere. Just a thought. Southern boats are used mostly year round where northern boats see half use. Knowledge is you key. I'm sad that the deal fell through. But glad she knew enough to keep pressing on. The ideal boat is out there. Maybe it won't be the exact one you want or need. How about finding one that will work for the time being and keep up the search while enjoying your life. Just a thought Keep it up, Ctskip
Friends on mine just put a new diesel in
Sabre 28. The job cost $20k! It is hard to replace an older engine with a newer one. I would walk! Sorry, about this!
Sabre 28. The job cost $20k! It is hard to replace an older engine with a newer one. I would walk! Sorry, about this!
Sad
to be disappointed like that, but it beats the frustration that they would have had to deal with after the sale. It's always good, though, to have someone with you to be the voice of reason and to have YOUR interests in mind when looking for a new boat, as our desire to sail may cloud our judgement a bit!!! Not that this ever happened to me or anything!!!!! I'm sure that Seadance will find the right boat and she and her family will be very happy when they get something that they will be able to enjoy! Good job Nice N Easy in saving them from alot of heartache! Hang in there, Seadance! You'll be surprised, one may drop right into your lap when you least expect it! Not that this ever happened to me or anything!!!!! I'll keep my eyes open up here! That would be a fun delivery! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
to be disappointed like that, but it beats the frustration that they would have had to deal with after the sale. It's always good, though, to have someone with you to be the voice of reason and to have YOUR interests in mind when looking for a new boat, as our desire to sail may cloud our judgement a bit!!! Not that this ever happened to me or anything!!!!!
I'm sure that Seadance will find the right boat and she and her family will be very happy when they get something that they will be able to enjoy! Good job Nice N Easy in saving them from alot of heartache! Hang in there, Seadance! You'll be surprised, one may drop right into your lap when you least expect it! Not that this ever happened to me or anything!!!!! I'll keep my eyes open up here! That would be a fun delivery! Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
rebuild??
Just to ask... Would rebuilding the engine have been a possible solution? I wonder at the cost - and risk that there would still be problems after rebuild. But - it seems that this is a common issue. Anyone had experience...? --jerry
Just to ask... Would rebuilding the engine have been a possible solution? I wonder at the cost - and risk that there would still be problems after rebuild. But - it seems that this is a common issue. Anyone had experience...? --jerry
Back on the saddle again
Hi Gentleman! We asked the owner of this boat after we found out how bad the engine really was whether he was willing to put in the $2-3,000 to rebuild the engine and he said "no". He knew all along how bad it was he just couldn't cover it up anymore. I spent the last two weeks calling the broker on the phone every day relaying that we wanted a certified marine mechanic to fix the throttle problem and anything else she had wrong with her and wanted an overall written synopsis on the engine. I also told them I wanted receipts. They agreed and was told yes and yes and yes they would do it. Everyday the mechanic was pushed a day further. It turned out the boat owner took it upon himself to cut corners again and try to save himself a dime and or hide the real problem and have an employee that knew nothing about engines help him with it. He referred to him as his mechanic at first until we asked to get him down there when she would not reverse out of the slip. We learned that all he did was start the engine while the owner tinkered below with her before we got there. The owner also stiffed the divers out of their $175 for the work they put it in but my husband could not let that happen to them and so he paid them. The underlying problem with this boat was that the owner had many hidden lies and had his good friend the broker try to get rid of this boat for him. I am concerened that they will not pull this boat off the market and put the work into the engine like the dealership said they would and someone else is going to stumble into a nightmare engine repair. After much sulking this weekend, good comfort food and wine and I dragged my family to the Biloxi wooden boat show...our spirits have lifted a bit.We scoured the internet and upped our price. We found about 20 boats to start looking around again. So I started calling again this morning. I've already been hung up on and told I slapped them in the face with my questions and offers <grin> but I found some potential 1980's model boats to look further into. The thing that kills me is the amount of money we have spent so far just looking...we could have put more toward a better boat. I did get the 411 from a dealer that had no boats to show me but told me how much really goes into a sale and their percentage and he told me my best bet would be to look for a private boat seller with a hard luck story. I found 2...a piece of candy for me. If anyonne has a heads up on a 30' or more sailboat along the Gulf Coast- Florida area with a draft a little more than 4 please give me heads up on it. Your ears should be constantly ringing because I find myself talking about all of you by your posts in conversations with my husband. Thank you for all of your support and friendship.
Hi Gentleman! We asked the owner of this boat after we found out how bad the engine really was whether he was willing to put in the $2-3,000 to rebuild the engine and he said "no". He knew all along how bad it was he just couldn't cover it up anymore. I spent the last two weeks calling the broker on the phone every day relaying that we wanted a certified marine mechanic to fix the throttle problem and anything else she had wrong with her and wanted an overall written synopsis on the engine. I also told them I wanted receipts. They agreed and was told yes and yes and yes they would do it. Everyday the mechanic was pushed a day further. It turned out the boat owner took it upon himself to cut corners again and try to save himself a dime and or hide the real problem and have an employee that knew nothing about engines help him with it. He referred to him as his mechanic at first until we asked to get him down there when she would not reverse out of the slip. We learned that all he did was start the engine while the owner tinkered below with her before we got there. The owner also stiffed the divers out of their $175 for the work they put it in but my husband could not let that happen to them and so he paid them. The underlying problem with this boat was that the owner had many hidden lies and had his good friend the broker try to get rid of this boat for him. I am concerened that they will not pull this boat off the market and put the work into the engine like the dealership said they would and someone else is going to stumble into a nightmare engine repair. After much sulking this weekend, good comfort food and wine and I dragged my family to the Biloxi wooden boat show...our spirits have lifted a bit.We scoured the internet and upped our price. We found about 20 boats to start looking around again. So I started calling again this morning. I've already been hung up on and told I slapped them in the face with my questions and offers <grin> but I found some potential 1980's model boats to look further into. The thing that kills me is the amount of money we have spent so far just looking...we could have put more toward a better boat. I did get the 411 from a dealer that had no boats to show me but told me how much really goes into a sale and their percentage and he told me my best bet would be to look for a private boat seller with a hard luck story. I found 2...a piece of candy for me. If anyonne has a heads up on a 30' or more sailboat along the Gulf Coast- Florida area with a draft a little more than 4 please give me heads up on it. Your ears should be constantly ringing because I find myself talking about all of you by your posts in conversations with my husband. Thank you for all of your support and friendship.
Re:Back on the saddle again
good. I lost money too on a boat I looked at. I think it cost me $1000. The boat is still for sale 2 years later. There was a crack in the keel to deck quad. I glad I lost the grand because it would be better than losing 10G fixing the boat. I like to look for boat and if I find something I'll let you know!
good. I lost money too on a boat I looked at. I think it cost me $1000. The boat is still for sale 2 years later. There was a crack in the keel to deck quad. I glad I lost the grand because it would be better than losing 10G fixing the boat. I like to look for boat and if I find something I'll let you know!
Your patience will be rewarded!
Seadance, Kudos to you for doing your homework and holding your ground. You came to this forum a little green but slowly and surly you are earning your stripes. You've already learned enough to give adivce to a novice on how to buy a boat. Chalk it up to experience. I’m sure when your ready the right boat will find “you”. They always do, and you will know it. Hang in there, your patience will be rewarded!
Seadance, Kudos to you for doing your homework and holding your ground. You came to this forum a little green but slowly and surly you are earning your stripes. You've already learned enough to give adivce to a novice on how to buy a boat. Chalk it up to experience. I’m sure when your ready the right boat will find “you”. They always do, and you will know it. Hang in there, your patience will be rewarded!
Bottom Feeding
You need to have realistic expectations on what you can buy for a certain amount of money. If you are talking 30' anything below $30,000 is suspect. Anything below about 20K and there may be real problems. Sure there are those gems that someignorant owner doesn't know the value of their boatbut those are rare. If you are talking broker they know what the boat is worth but often the owner wants more. If a deal seems too good to be true it probably is and there are problems that you don't know about. We went bottom fishing for somethingabout 20 k and ended up paying 33K. Most of the boats we really liked in the 30-35' range were priced out of our price range. Looking now I've seen a few boats that I liked but they were in the 60K+ range. IMHO you are better off with a smaller boat in good condition than an older boat with problems. For 10K you should be able to find a great little catalina 22. 15K a great little catalina 25 and for 20K+ a Catalina 30 the closer to 20K the more problems. If I was bottom feeding right now I'd opt for a boat in reasonable condition with a shot engine. A factor in a new engine in the cost to own. 10K for a new engine is a low ball price. I'd line up the engine and mechanic before buyingthe boat. OF COURSE PRICE IS NO GUARENTEE that the boat has no problems but real low price is almost a guarentee of problems. I remember looking years ago at a beautiful 30' sloop for 5k I fell in love and was trying to get together the money. A friend looked at the boat and pointed out the the wooden hulled boat was rotten. The bilge pump was keeping it afloat. About 2 years ago a I talked to a man with a steel hulled ketch.Wewere talking price and he said real cheap 5k finally he said that the slip was costing himand he wanted rid of the boat and that I could have it for free.....that was too much IMHO the boat was worthless and would cost for disposal. It was a home made boat with severe rust problems.
You need to have realistic expectations on what you can buy for a certain amount of money. If you are talking 30' anything below $30,000 is suspect. Anything below about 20K and there may be real problems. Sure there are those gems that someignorant owner doesn't know the value of their boatbut those are rare. If you are talking broker they know what the boat is worth but often the owner wants more. If a deal seems too good to be true it probably is and there are problems that you don't know about. We went bottom fishing for somethingabout 20 k and ended up paying 33K. Most of the boats we really liked in the 30-35' range were priced out of our price range. Looking now I've seen a few boats that I liked but they were in the 60K+ range. IMHO you are better off with a smaller boat in good condition than an older boat with problems. For 10K you should be able to find a great little catalina 22. 15K a great little catalina 25 and for 20K+ a Catalina 30 the closer to 20K the more problems. If I was bottom feeding right now I'd opt for a boat in reasonable condition with a shot engine. A factor in a new engine in the cost to own. 10K for a new engine is a low ball price. I'd line up the engine and mechanic before buyingthe boat. OF COURSE PRICE IS NO GUARENTEE that the boat has no problems but real low price is almost a guarentee of problems. I remember looking years ago at a beautiful 30' sloop for 5k I fell in love and was trying to get together the money. A friend looked at the boat and pointed out the the wooden hulled boat was rotten. The bilge pump was keeping it afloat. About 2 years ago a I talked to a man with a steel hulled ketch.Wewere talking price and he said real cheap 5k finally he said that the slip was costing himand he wanted rid of the boat and that I could have it for free.....that was too much IMHO the boat was worthless and would cost for disposal. It was a home made boat with severe rust problems.
Guy in our area...
just sold a 41' cutter for $4000. Oh yeah, it was fero cement...enough said. Lots of garbage out there, but be realistic, keep after it, and you'll find what you're looking for. The more you see, the more you learn.
just sold a 41' cutter for $4000. Oh yeah, it was fero cement...enough said. Lots of garbage out there, but be realistic, keep after it, and you'll find what you're looking for. The more you see, the more you learn.
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