New sail, but should I keep it? w/ pics

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heath18703

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Jul 20, 2007
39
- - Lexington, KY
I've just received this new 150% genoa for my Hunter 27. As I'm opening the sail bag this is what I see...



As a new boat owner I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I don't know if it's normal for the head mount of a head sail to have as much material cut away from it as this sail has. Subsequent pictures show it seems a hot knife was used to cut the nylon material. This sail again is a 150 genoa that is supposed to fit a Hunter 27, with a mast height of just under 40 ft. With as much material as has been cut away, will this sail operate well on my boat or should I return it? We use a roller furling system if it makes any difference. As it was delivered to me far after the promised date I already have an offer for a full refund, so returning it shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks for the help everybody.





 
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Alan

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
Agreed!

I would not have used a metal cringle there at all. A webbing strap like the one that runs through it would have made a far better attachment for the halyard.
 
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heath18703

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Jul 20, 2007
39
- - Lexington, KY
Thats pretty much what I thought when I saw it. I don't have anything to compare this directly to because we sent him our old sail to copy. Now if I'm remembering correctly I believe the same part of our old sail was actually some kind of sturdy double plate that was possibly rivited onto the corner of the sail. This new one can't be sturdy enough, can it?

Thanks again
 
sailingdog

sailingdog

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Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
That's a hack job... Is this a brand new, from the loft, sail or a new to you sail??? I seriously hope no sail loft would send a sail out with that kind of modification on a brand new sail.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
It looks like someone has a sewing machine and some tools and thinks that makes him a sailmaker. NOT! I have seen better constructed tents.
 
B

bffatcat

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Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
new sail???

I agree with Ross and sailing dog. Ive bought lots of new sails over the years. Workmanship
is pretty shoddy. You say this is a new sail? looks like some kind of a cut down to me. If they offered a full refund I would grab it and than look elsewhere.
 
Ron20324

Ron20324

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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Perhaps they allow you the refund "due to the late delivery" as a scapegoat once they saw this piece of work. How do the other corners look?... There should have been enough fabric around the point to allow a binding to wrap around to protect the exposed edges then be stitched on.... Picture two you circled shows any back lock-stitch has been cut off.... If someone inspected this sail and wanted to cover this workmanship, they could have done wraps of twine through the grommet and around the lousey finishing of that corner. If they had, you probably would have thought nothing of it.... I wonder if there is someone who makes the sail then sends it over to the "Corner Finishing Department"... Yeah, send it back
 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Most of what you are seeing is 'cosmetic' as it involves only the chafe cover. However and most important is the cringle is not a SEWN-IN then pressed cringle ... its simply pressed into the fabric. A non-sewn but pressed cringle/grommet is for SMALL DINGHY sails!!!!! A hand-sewn then pressed grommet/cringle is FAR superior.

That webbing strap WILL fail due to chafe, as they didnt even fold the damn strap to make it pass through the cringle AND that cringle WILL eventually easily 'tear out' under heavy/repetetive loads. A single webbing strap .. simply will not do, for a sail that size you need SEVERAL straps .... PLUS, this is a 'mis-match' as if you use webbing reinforcement, you should use "D"-rings WITH a BAR, ..... NOT 'pressed-in' grommets with webbing.

This kind of connection is OK for small dinghy sails but is totally unsuitable for the size of sail for your H27. This will most probably fail.
BTW - the chafe cover on a 'well made' sail is usually pearl grey leather which is 'hand sewn' to the corner and sewn 'over' the D-ring and webbing. Webbing is NYLON and is subject to rapid UV degradation - should be UNDER the chafe cover.

Bought your sail from a deep discount offshore loft, did ya?
I'd demand that they take the sail back and install a PROPER connection - either sewn and pressed cringle/grommet OR strapped *D-ring with bar* .... and then do a PROPER chafe cover over all. What do the other 'corners' look like?
 

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Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

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Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
Not only should you send this sail back and get a refund, but you should post to name of the supposed sailmaker here so we can avoid him.
 
K

kendall

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Aug 2, 2005
374
pearson ariel grand rapids
Warren Milberg said:
Not only should you send this sail back and get a refund, but you should post to name of the supposed sailmaker here so we can avoid him.
Click to expand
Agree the workmanship looks shoddy, but he says the maker already agreed to a refund which means they aren't trying to squirm out of it. So we should await the outcome before placing the maker on the 'AVOID' list.

Even well respected companies ship out an occasional error. What makes them well respected is that they are willing to make it good.

Ken.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
The hand finishing work on a sail comprizes most of the labor cost and is not a skill learned quickly. From the little that I saw there is little or no hand finishing work on this sail. Reading "The Sailmakers Apprentice" will provide an education in what a properly made sail should look like.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,353
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Do genoas usually come with black plastic on the head of the sail? Hmm, mine always had the sail material going up to the cringle with appropriate reinforcement. Like, I don't recall seeing headboards on genoas! I thought it was a main sail until I reread the post.
 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Stu -
"Quality" sails will have hand sewn pearl grey leather. What you see is probably Sunbrella.

That they used Sunbrella and a 'pressed grommet', would suggest that there isnt proper 'patch reinforcement' at this connection. Usually in a 'quality' sail there will be so much reinforcing patches (THICKNESS) that a sewing machine simply cant push a needle through all the multiple layers ... and then one must attach the 'chafe cover' with a palm, sail makers twine and sail needle. Such 'finishing' by hand is expensive and time consuming.
 
Morgan30

Morgan30

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Dec 17, 2008
35
Morgan 30 Classic Long Island
Would like to know what they charged you. Also, looks to me that the stitching that I can see is sloppy as well as light thread was used.
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Hand Finishing

I think this is what Rich is referring to when he talks about chafe protection and hand finishing..

 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
THAT is a 'quality' sail 'finished' with elegant 'handwork', Maine. That hand stitching was probably done with either a sailmakers needle/palm or 'automatic hand-awl' - NICE !

I'd add a sun cover over those NYLON webs, though.
 
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