New Outboard

[tgrass462]

Currently - Grasshopper III (our 1999 H-260) is powered by a 1999 vintage Tohatsu 2 cycle - 8 HP Outboard. Very reliable, it does drink gas and is quite loud. We're thinking of upgrading to a 4 - stroke 9.9 HP outboard (w/remote control and electric start) for next sping. My question for the fourm is what brand of outboard do you recommend?

Tohatsu (or Mercury)?
Yamaha?
Suzuki?
Honda?

I'm getting quotes on a Honda and a Tohatsu 9.9 4-Cycle OB from a couple of dealers in the St. Louis region. I'm assuming that the Honda will be somewhat more expensive. Is it worth the extra expense? What is your opinion? Is it (the difference between Tohatsu & Honda) comparable to the difference between a Chevrolet and a Ford automobile (or between a Nissan and a Toyota) - (essentially no difference) - or - is it more on the lines of the difference between a Toyota and say a Neon (quite a large difference)?

Thanks for your input.

Tom Grass
Creve Coeur, Missouri

 

[kenkindy1]

A lot more issues are discussed regarding Honda outboards on this board than other brands. I just moved from a 2 cycle to a 4 cycle with electric start and alternator. A very nice upgrade. Gets rid of the greasy smoke stains from the back of the boat as well!

 

[Johann]

I've had 2 Tohatsu outboards and love them. A 6HP on a 23.5, and now a 9.8 on a Achilles RIB. If you're getting quotes check this site out...

http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohatsu-9-8-hp-MFS9-8A3EFUL.html

I got both my motors there...

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Probably the two outboards with the absolute best reputations are Yamaha and Honda. Also, they are the most expensive, but are considered the best. Nissan and Tohatsu (the same exact motors) are the lightest 4 stroke outboards of all and sailors like light. I have owned several Nissans and like them. I also have owned and own several boats now. I have a Honda 5 HP 4-stroke, which is a dream machine, but it is too heavy for my 22-ft race boat, so I use a much lighter Nissan 5 HP 2 stroke, which is super reliable. Racers like light too and to the point that they are searching out 2 cycle engines because they are so much lighter than 4 strokes. But, not all of us race, I understand, and so 4 strokes are nice for cruising, fuel saving and for being quiet and not so smokey. Again, Nissan and Tohatsu are the lightest 4 strokes and Tohatsus are typically cheaper than Nissans, but are the exact same outboard with different wrappings. I also own a Boston Whaler with a couple of 115 HP Yamahas on the back and they are wonderful outboards. My dinghy for my cruising boat has a Nissan 8 HP 2 stroke and it is light in comparison to a 4 stroke of the same HP and it runs starts immediately and runs very well. So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[tgrass462]

Thanks Bill

Thanks Bill for the reply. In your honest opinion - IF you were not racing - but planning on some extensive cruising (i.e. the Loop for example - or the North Channel) would you be more comfortable with a well maintained Tohatsu 4 cycle - or a well maintained Honda 4 cycle - or would there be no difference in your mind?

Tom G.

Probably the two outboards with the absolute best reputations are Yamaha and Honda. Also, they are the most expensive, but are considered the best. Nissan and Tohatsu (the same exact motors) are the lightest 4 stroke outboards of all and sailors like light. I have owned several Nissans and like them. I also have owned and own several boats now. I have a Honda 5 HP 4-stroke, which is a dream machine, but it is too heavy for my 22-ft race boat, so I use a much lighter Nissan 5 HP 2 stroke, which is super reliable. Racers like light too and to the point that they are searching out 2 cycle engines because they are so much lighter than 4 strokes. But, not all of us race, I understand, and so 4 strokes are nice for cruising, fuel saving and for being quiet and not so smokey. Again, Nissan and Tohatsu are the lightest 4 strokes and Tohatsus are typically cheaper than Nissans, but are the exact same outboard with different wrappings. I also own a Boston Whaler with a couple of 115 HP Yamahas on the back and they are wonderful outboards. My dinghy for my cruising boat has a Nissan 8 HP 2 stroke and it is light in comparison to a 4 stroke of the same HP and it runs starts immediately and runs very well. So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[tgrass462]

Restatement

Let me restate my question regarding outboard motors - which statement is most correct?

a. All Outboards (Honda, Tohatsu, Suzuki, Mercury, etc.) 9.9 HP 4 cycle are of comparable quality and durability.

or

b. 9.9 HP 4 cycle outboards can be segregated into tiers of quality and/or features - the top being Honda, Yamaha, ________ ; the lower contains Mercury, Tohatsu, etc.

Tom Grass

Currently - Grasshopper III (our 1999 H-260) is powered by a 1999 vintage Tohatsu 2 cycle - 8 HP Outboard. Very reliable, it does drink gas and is quite loud. We're thinking of upgrading to a 4 - stroke 9.9 HP outboard (w/remote control and electric start) for next sping. My question for the fourm is what brand of outboard do you recommend?

Tohatsu (or Mercury)?
Yamaha?
Suzuki?
Honda?

I'm getting quotes on a Honda and a Tohatsu 9.9 4-Cycle OB from a couple of dealers in the St. Louis region. I'm assuming that the Honda will be somewhat more expensive. Is it worth the extra expense? What is your opinion? Is it (the difference between Tohatsu & Honda) comparable to the difference between a Chevrolet and a Ford automobile (or between a Nissan and a Toyota) - (essentially no difference) - or - is it more on the lines of the difference between a Toyota and say a Neon (quite a large difference)?

Thanks for your input.

Tom Grass
Creve Coeur, Missouri

 

[twodzusfittings]

I have researched these 9.9's and made my decision after physically seeing the units at the Annapolis Sail Boat Show. My goal now is the Yamaha 9.9 with an electric start. The Tohatsu/Merc/Nissan had one thing that caught my eye which for me decided my direction. There is a small exposed shaft, I beleive it is the shaft which controls F/N/R. Being exposed and only about 1/4 inch thick, it makes me a little leary. Honda are nice as they have filters. Resale Hondas and Yamahas fetch a pretty penny.

 

[Rick Webb]

Not enough of a Difference to Discriminate on Just the Brand

Two factors I would consider other than of course price.

Dealers near you, Ask around about the reputation of the local dealers it would be unfortunate to pick a motor which did not have a local dealer for parts and maintanence or a dealer that you would not want to deal with. Everything else equal this is a big deal.

Second, features, there are not many features on motors this size but my Mercury has one I love. The grip shift, turn it one way to go forward back the other to go in reverse. No need to turn around to look for the shift lever and let go of whatever is in your other hand to shift.

 

[Steve Dion]

I am not sure about the new 4 Stroke Tohatsu/Nissan, but we have a newer Merc in the harbor and it is the worst engine that we have to deal with.

Years ago the Yamaha was normally considered the best OB followed by Honda. These things may have changed due to the emissions controls that have been placed on them.

Just because Tohatsu makes the small engines for Mercury does not mean that they are the same motor. Get some local advise and find a dealer that can assist you if you need TA, service or warranty.

PS: Be sure that you drain the the fuel from the engine and hose after each use regardless of what you select.

PSS: Our Tohatus/Nissan 2 strokes usually start on the frist or second pull. As much as I don't like mixing fuel/oil it's not that bad.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I think all the major outboards are good units, but I do believe Yamaha is considered to be numero uno and Honda probably 2nd, but they are more money too. Nissan/Tohatsu are the lightest and 4 strokes are heavy - much heavier than 2 strokes. Also, Nissan/Tohatsu makes one of their engine models designed specifically for sailboats, moreso than all of their other 4 strokes with long shafts. I currently own two Nissan outboards (3.5 & 8 hp), one Honda outboard (5 HP) and two Yamaha outboards (115 hp). They all start right away and run very well.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I believe tohatsu is the oldest engine manufacturer now since OMC is gone unless British Seagull is still around. Tohatsu has been building the Nissan orginially for name recognition as well as the smaller Mercuries. In fact they use to build the small Mariners but I beleive they are gone. Additonally, I have seen Tohatsu parts incorporated in Yamaha and Honda as well.

Statements about pricing are true but over 30 years I saw issues with all makes. Many did not service their engines, flush them out but now with ethanol are not adding the additives which creates issues which is why if you can find straight gas being sold, then buy it. There are other issues but the main issue is to service the engine and if a problem starts to happen, your local dealer whom you bought it from will be willing to help you.

One of the comments about workiing with a local dealer is highly suggested. When someone who bought an engine off the internet and had warranty issues, my policy was to charge them but reimburse whatever was sent back to me by the manufacturer. Most dealers also will put you on the back burner for those enignes bought off the internet as their customers come ahead of those.

When you look at an engine, make sure your will have the control cables being able to go up to the pedestal on a 260. They use series 3300 cables. Years ago when Honda went with the new style engine from the old style, they changed the cable connections to a remote control only which prevented from using that engine on the 260. NOt sure about that now as many voiced concerns with Honda. (I am retired) With the four stroke, they are heavier and you will need to beef up the outboard motor bracket. When traveling, I would leave the engines in the down position with an additonal line tied to the handle and tied up onto the transom somewhere to keep it from bouncing on the outboard motor bracket.

With proper care, all makes are good.

crazy dave condon

 

[tgrass462]

Beef up Motor Mount

Thanks Dave. You said in your post that "you will need to beef up the outboard motor bracket" presumably when going from a 2 cycle to a 4 cycle Outboard. I thought the motor mount on a Hunter 260 was adequate for any motor as long as it was less than 10 HP. (I've seen folks with 15 HP outboards on their 260's - but that may really asking for trouble). If indeed we do have to 'beef up the bracket' - what would you suggest?

Thanks,

Tom Grass

I believe tohatsu is the oldest engine manufacturer now since OMC is gone unless British Seagull is still around. Tohatsu has been building the Nissan orginially for name recognition as well as the smaller Mercuries. In fact they use to build the small Mariners but I beleive they are gone. Additonally, I have seen Tohatsu parts incorporated in Yamaha and Honda as well.

Statements about pricing are true but over 30 years I saw issues with all makes. Many did not service their engines, flush them out but now with ethanol are not adding the additives which creates issues which is why if you can find straight gas being sold, then buy it. There are other issues but the main issue is to service the engine and if a problem starts to happen, your local dealer whom you bought it from will be willing to help you.

One of the comments about workiing with a local dealer is highly suggested. When someone who bought an engine off the internet and had warranty issues, my policy was to charge them but reimburse whatever was sent back to me by the manufacturer. Most dealers also will put you on the back burner for those enignes bought off the internet as their customers come ahead of those.

When you look at an engine, make sure your will have the control cables being able to go up to the pedestal on a 260. They use series 3300 cables. Years ago when Honda went with the new style engine from the old style, they changed the cable connections to a remote control only which prevented from using that engine on the 260. NOt sure about that now as many voiced concerns with Honda. (I am retired) With the four stroke, they are heavier and you will need to beef up the outboard motor bracket. When traveling, I would leave the engines in the down position with an additonal line tied to the handle and tied up onto the transom somewhere to keep it from bouncing on the outboard motor bracket.

With proper care, all makes are good.

crazy dave condon

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Generally the brackets could handle the engines but only a few got out using a thinner steel plate which was corrected. It is that I am referring to.

However, I found when bolts were not kept tightened on a regular basis where the plate is bolted and also to the transom could cause issues later. But one major issue iis not supprotring the engine with an additonal tie up to the boat during transport as the engine bounces causing strain on the outboard motor bracket. With the additional tie up, that is eliminated.

 

[Rick Webb]

I think I Remember

Some folks had an issue with the motor having room to tilt up due to the larger cowling on the new Hondas.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Oops, I forgot about that as it definitely would not work on a Catalina 250 too

 

[Paladin27]

I have had a real nightmare of an experience with a used Honda 4 stroke 8HP I bought last year. Worst engine ever. I've had it serviced 5 times in the past season and two different Honda dealers just can't seem to fix it correctly (but happily charge me hundreds in the attempt). I am contemplating what I will do for 2013, but right now I am strongly considering just ditching it and buying a Mercury because the Mercury dealer is just a few hundred feet from my slip, unlike the Honda dealers who are over an hour drive each way. I wish I had never bought a used Honda engine. The "certified" Honda mechanics don't seem to really know what they are talking about half the time (and they all trash on each other when you switch shops) plus the parts are all more expensive than other brands. Anyway, that's just my personal experience, I'm sure others will say how much they love Honda, I'd question how old their Honda engine is and ask them if they've ever had to deal with ordering Honda parts and service.

 

[teacher63]

I had a 3 hp Tohatsu on a 21 foot San Juan I found it to be a pain. It was the wrong motor as it had the tank in the top and no reverse. The slip I had was so far from the river it took more than a tank of gas. At times it was hard to start and I had a couple problems of which I can not remember. I just remembered one problem and that is it would not go from neutral to forward and had to be fixed. I bought a Honda 5 4 cycle. I love it, it starts every time with no problem. It is quiet clean and it sips gas. I have it on a Hunter 23 and it moves it fine. The problem though, it is heavy and I have the original mount on the boat which is a fiberglass U and it low on the transom. I can not get the motor on or off for the spring or fall. Let me put it this way 2 of us can not get it off safely. I need to get a spring loaded motor mount. Another thing is a 20inch shaft which I have and it stays in the water. I wonder if I could have gotten a 25inch shaft so I could move it up he transom. My feeble opinion,

 

[canmor]

I purchased a 2012 Honda extra long shaft fully loaded 9.9 . Yamaha was my second choice. The Honda had a longer warranty. Honda had a 12 amp alternator vrs 6 amp.
Thirdly, Honda had a pull cord start if your battery connection failed. Yamaha you have to remove the cover and wrap a cord around the fly wheel....

I like the Honda. It will take upto 10% ethanol in the fuel.

I did beef up the motor mounts, it weighs 135 pound.

If I had to do it over again, I would go with a 15 HP; contrary to alot of postings on this site.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

So often many motors were brought in for repairs. What I found was the carb was not clean. Gents, one good suggestion. When you turn off the engine, disconnect the fuell line or shut off the fuel to the engine and let it run until no more gas in the carb. It is called an oil by product which over time can coagulate and gum up the fine jets in the carb.

Secondly, use all your fuel in the car at the end of the season so you will buy new fresh fuel at the beginning of the boat season. Stale fuel goes bad. Not good on the engine.

Now with ethanol or I call it corn crap, put the additives in to combat it or it can clog up the carb and destroy hoses particualry on the older engines. The new fuel line materials are being designed to thwart that.

crazy dave condon

 

[C Jones]

I have a Nissan 5hp 4stroke 20" long shaft on my 86 h23. It was on my boat when I purchased it. I had to have the carb rebuilt shortly after. The local Nissan dealer charged me $200 for the carb rebuild, fluid change and tune up. I always ran Marine Stabil, midrange unleaded fuel and always disconnect the fuel line and run the engine dry. This worked fine for 2 years but my carb was gummed up again. It would not idle. I was told to run a fresh tank of midrange gas with 5 capfulls of Starbrite Startron fuel treatment/ stabilizer thru the engine. This a clean up dose. After a 5 mile run, at half throttle with Startron in my fuel, the engine idled again, starts first pull after 2 weeks of sitting on the boat and I saved $192 on another rebuild/ clean up. Several others have tried this on my dock and it has worked well for them. The regular treatment is one capfull per gallon of gas. I now run this in all my small engines with good results.