new keel winch cable

[GDTRFB]

I just picked up a new winch cable I had made. I showed the shop my old cable and wanted a new one just like it. I noticed when I got home the 316 stainless they used is a much stiffer cable than my old cable. I am not sure if it is going to be flexible enough on the winch drum. Any thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Ken]

Doesn't sound like they used soft cable for winch use. Take it back let them do it over.

 

[jfrench]

Stainless is going to be harder than galvanized steel, which is usually used for winch cable. Also, there are several combinations of winding the wires: 7 x 7, 7 x 19, 1 x 19 (see the link below). More strands yields more flexibility, but at the expense of lower "chafe" resistance. A 7 x 19 will wind better on the winch and lay straighter when let out, but its thinner strands will cut more quickly if caught on something sharp. A 1 x 19 won't operate around a pulley, but is better for rigging and lifting work. See cross sections at this link:

http://www.eriggingsupply.com/ESHOP/CATEGORY.ASP?depth=2&ct_lcode=2&ct_mcode=10&ct_sub=14

 

[Clark]

It's a little hard to tell from the picture but Catalina Directs keel cable looks to be either a T-316 Grade 7x7 or a 7x19.

 

[Bilbo]

I had an issue with this a year or so ago. There has been a change in what they've been selling at C.D. from what I understand: The new cable that I bought is C.S. Johnson part # 12-224 Aircraft Fork 3/16 (MS667-6) with a load capacity of 1600 lbs. it is made of 316 SS and swedged onto 5/32" 7X19 SS wire BL=2,400 lb. I think that the last larger diamater cable that they sold me was: 304 Stainless Steel Aircraft Cable, 3/16" diameter, 7x19 construction, 3700 lb Breaking Strength.
The reason that they went to 316 is that it doesn't corrode as quickly as 304 but corrosion isn't my concern in fresh water. I see a lot of meat hooks where the wire rests on the turning ball because I can't rest my boat with the keel full down.

 

[GDTRFB]

I'm going back there today...It pisses me off when I show them my old CD cable and say I want a new one exactly like this but they must have written the wrong wire on the order. They did get the right aircraft 316 stainless fork with 5/16" cb. I buy from Fisheries Supply because they have an extensive sailboat department, been in business since the '40s, are local and I get a discount. My cable was 1/2 of what CD charges, but I guess it doesn't matter if I get the wrong product! :bang:

They obviously carry it: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=142145&did=14245&keywords=&km=&sb=

Paul

 

[Bilbo]

I'm going back there today...It pisses me off when I show them my old CD cable and say I want a new one exactly like this but they must have written the wrong wire on the order. They did get the right aircraft 316 stainless fork with 5/16" cb. I buy from Fisheries Supply because they have an extensive sailboat department, been in business since the '40s, are local and I get a discount. My cable was 1/2 of what CD charges, but I guess it doesn't matter if I get the wrong product! :bang:

They obviously carry it: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=142145&did=14245&keywords=&km=&sb=

Paul

Hi Paul,
My two most recent cables have this same swaged fork (They both have 667-6X stamped on the side and appear to be identical) but the cable diameter is different between the two.

What is the diameter of this 316 cable that you just purchased? I'm curious.

Also, For the winch, one may want to try increasing the diameter of the winch drum by adding extra cable underneath the functional one. BUT the pint of concern for me is at the turning ball and not so much the winch. The smaller diameter is actually about 3/4 of an inch right there where my winch is at least 2 1/2" diameter. Most of the damage to my cable is in broken strands and I believe that this happens at the turning ball because it also shows grooves in the brass that match the cable strands. My keel wags at the dock from waves and it costs me in a lot of wear on the cable and turning ball. I need a deeper dockage.

 

[GDTRFB]

Hi Paul,
My two most recent cables have this same swaged fork (They both have 667-6X stamped on the side and appear to be identical) but the cable diameter is different between the two.

What is the diameter of this 316 cable that you just purchased? I'm curious.

Also, For the winch, one may want to try increasing the diameter of the winch drum by adding extra cable underneath the functional one. BUT the pint of concern for me is at the turning ball and not so much the winch. The smaller diameter is actually about 3/4 of an inch right there where my winch is at least 2 1/2" diameter. Most of the damage to my cable is in broken strands and I believe that this happens at the turning ball because it also shows grooves in the brass that match the cable strands. My keel wags at the dock from waves and it costs me in a lot of wear on the cable and turning ball. I need a deeper dockage.

The cable I got is 3/16". I showed them the order, and said they mistakenly wrote 1/19 cable down instead of 7/19 cable. They were super cool about it. Said it was their fault and will rush the job. They don't do swaging during the day, but have a "night swager' that comes in at 6 and takes care of all the orders. Just like the ski shop I worked at; i was a night tuner! Anyway, it should be ready tomorrow. I wonder if the switch to 5/32nd cable would help with the chaffing? Slightly smaller dia for the turning ball.

Having a turning ball made from UHMW (or teflon) would be the smarter choice imho than using brass (and it would be easier to replace instead of the cable) and cheaper too.

I get chunks of UHMW from a belt and rubber supplier out of their scrap bin all the time. I think I will see if my machinist will turn a few for me and test out the durability. I formerly was a commercial fisherman in Alaska, and we used UHMW everywhere on the boat where we needed something slick and as a replaceable wear item. It is tough stuff. Often we would use it as a bearing and add a Zirk too.
Paul

 

[Clark]

Check with CD on that ball; it may be bronze as opposed to brass. Point being, bronze is a LOT tougher than brass and you may need that strength at a high-load point. They also suggest replacing the ball every other year as regular maintenance. Good luck with your tests.

 

[Bilbo]

I'm pretty sure that the turning ball is brass.
One of the issues with it is that if the keel hangs with weight on the cable, the ball will wear a flat spot and eventually when you raise lower the keel, the ball won't turn. If this is going on, the cable will wear much faster.
I don't think that a smaller cable would help. I think that it would concentrate the chafing.
Here's something interesting. The 2001 tech manual online.?!?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/55988109/02-Keel

 

[Ken]

That's for sure part of the first tech manual... I'm sure there are many other parts of it out there too...

 

[Chris Patterson]

Yepper, that is some bonafide information there, just about a "must read" for any new Catalina owner. In regards to the hose, I put an 1 1/4" PVC coupler in the top of the hose, (with a clamp of course), to slow down the wear on the hose. Bearing in mind that the S.S. cable will wear through the coupler as well, it's a little insurance, and replacing a 50 cent PVC part ain't nothing.
One needs to do it with the keel down, and the cable off the spool of course, unless you intend to cut it lengthwise, and put it in in two pieces. And it is the perfect fit as well..

EDIT: WRONG SIZE. It's 1 inch even. Sorry if you ran out and bought the wrong size. Send me the receipt for it, and I will gladly refund your 50 cents.
Course, shipping and processing is 75 cents, so that'll make you owing me 25 cents. I think..

 

[Bilbo]

Yepper, that is some bonafide information there, just about a "must read" for any new Catalina owner. In regards to the hose, I put an 1 1/4" PVC coupler in the top of the hose, (with a clamp of course), to slow down the wear on the hose. Bearing in mind that the S.S. cable will wear through the coupler as well, it's a little insurance, and replacing a 50 cent PVC part ain't nothing.
One needs to do it with the keel down, and the cable off the spool of course, unless you intend to cut it lengthwise, and put it in in two pieces. And it is the perfect fit as well..

Could one cut this PVC coupler lengthwise with one slot wide enough for the cable to pass through?

 

[GDTRFB]

I'm pretty sure that the turning ball is brass.
One of the issues with it is that if the keel hangs with weight on the cable, the ball will wear a flat spot and eventually when you raise lower the keel, the ball won't turn. If this is going on, the cable will wear much faster.
I don't think that a smaller cable would help. I think that it would concentrate the chafing.
Here's something interesting. The 2001 tech manual online.?!?
http://www.scribd.com/doc/55988109/02-Keel

How do I download that doc? I can see it on my phone, but can't download it on my desktop?

 

[Chris Patterson]

I had kinda thought about that as I was posting it, and the gist of it is, is I don't now. But I don't see why not. I mean, all it's for is a wear item/anti chafing if you will. But I put mine in prior to cable install, and man, it was a fit like it was made for it. The only thing that's wrong with it is, is I gave the wrong size, it's 1 inch even. What a moron....

 

[Bilbo]

How do I download that doc? I can see it on my phone, but can't download it on my desktop?

I'm not sure. It seems that there is a log-in procedure. One could make their own log-in or use a facebook. One could also copy and paste much of the txt and Dl the images but that may take some time and work.
To point out the legality...This is also part of the Catalina 22 Association CD ....> Go to the bottom of this link:
https://www.catalina22.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=7

 

[Bilbo]

I had kinda thought about that as I was posting it, and the gist of it is, is I don't now. But I don't see why not. I mean, all it's for is a wear item/anti chafing if you will. But I put mine in prior to cable install, and man, it was a fit like it was made for it. The only thing that's wrong with it is, is I gave the wrong size, it's 1 inch even. What a moron....

Hmmmm. my cable hose is 1 5/8" here (I have a spare in my bed room...) One of the things that I've been meaning to consider is that there is a fiberglass shelf with a hole that the hose runs through at about the 1/2 way point on my new style. This hole (see the top jpg= http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/988pjgo1xcz11p1/images/6-ce83fc682e.jpg) could be enlarged as it doesn't quite line up the hose with the side of the winch. That would take a fair amount of chafe from the cable/hose contact point on mine.

 

[jfrench]

That Tech manual is certainly worth the price of joining their association:
https://catalina22.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=40

Looks like $25 to join and $15 to download the Tech manual.

 

[CaptGregg]

Hey Chris,
Got a question. The cable cutting into the PVC over time, couldn't the grooved PVC grab the cable and the cable snatches the hose up?

Hey jfrench,
I think you're right on the pricing, that's how much I paid, just got my 2013 sticker and wallet card...

 

[Chris Patterson]

Depends on how you do it. My hose at the bottom is so secure, Hercules couldn't snatch it off. And the coupling just has a single clamp just snug on it, it's going to come out WAY before the hose comes off. And while the hose is only $9.95, the coupling is 30 cents. You could replace the coupling while afloat, but a man better have some great big hairy ones to try and replace the hose afloat..