New Jabsco Regular Installation

pan zagloba · Aug 12, 2013

my W&C was holding together, but i needed some more real estate. so i swapped out the W&C compact bowl for a Jabsco regular (household size) bowl only. those extra 3 inches are great. and the measurement you are looking for, 15 inches of knee room from bowl to wall. i hope it works for you.

pan zagloba · Aug 12, 2013

You are welcome. Regarding the edge, i did not move the base, I used it just where it was. As you can see, the seat cants back a bit and stays up on its own.

MarkZ · Aug 12, 2013

I messed with replacing parts in my W&C for the first few years that I owned my 310 and it worked satisfactory. Then I decided to quit all the nonsense and bought a Raritan PHII. That was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I've had it for five years now and have not had to work on it at all since I installed it!

Witzend · Aug 13, 2013

The biggest issue with the Jabsco is not to use the cheep stuff to winterize, the alcohol raises hell with the rubber parts, especially the joker valve.

paulj · Aug 13, 2013

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|51|2234284|2234289&id=1343014

I replaced my WC with this in July 2013.

paulj

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Aug 20, 2013

IRISH ROGUE said:
Well got it installed. Went with the Jabsco Regular, more comfortable. I had a number of discussions with Caribbean Cruisers and they swear that Maintenance, Maintenance and continuous Maintenance is the KEY. They said that the best cure was Mineral Oil and Vinegar. Some of the Heads where well over a decade old.

Cheers & THANKS

IRISH ROGUE

With the Jabsco, their joker valves are kind of crap. The are week and let fluids come back in after a year. This can lead to black water back flowing into the head and ending up on the flour. I recommend you buy a Raritan joker valve to replace the jabsco one. More money but better quality.

The odor problem that most have that the vinegar is supposed to cure is that when you use salt water to flush, micro organisms end up in the hoses and die. The decaying micro organisms gives off an awful odor. The vinegar helps cure this but you need to add it in the right location. Simply dumping it in the bowl doesn't get the ones in the supply side and pump. The best modification to address this is to add a Y valve that would allow you to choose to suck water from the sink. Then you can close the thru-hull and pour vinegar in the sink and pump it down through the whole system. Another take on this would be to add a tee on the sink drain line and make that the new intake for the head.

Mineral oil? I am guessing that they said to use this to lubricate the head. There is also head lube sold at West Marine. We use vegetable oil. Cheaper than both and mineral oil is not something you should discharge through your macerator. Mineral oil is still a petroleum distillate and should not be dumped into the environment.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse

rpwillia · Aug 20, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
With the Jabsco, their joker valves are kind of crap. The are week and let fluids come back in after a year. This can lead to black water back flowing into the head and ending up on the flour. I recommend you buy a Raritan joker valve to replace the jabsco one. More money but better quality.
...

On the Ask All Sailors forum about a week or two ago someone mentioned Practical Sailor had tested them all and said the Jabsco joker valves were the top rated? Anyone got that issue, as I am very curious. I can't remember if I used Raritan or Jabsco last time as they were both the same price.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Aug 21, 2013

I don't get practical sailor anymore so i didn't see the article.

But just feeling the two the Raritan is much stiffer and seems to be better made. From what I remember of cost it was like $6 for the Jabsco and $21 for the Raritan.

Solstice · Aug 21, 2013

rpwillia said:
On the Ask All Sailors forum about a week or two ago someone mentioned Practical Sailor had tested them all and said the Jabsco joker valves were the top rated? Anyone got that issue, as I am very curious. I can't remember if I used Raritan or Jabsco last time as they were both the same price.

PS did test the Groco, Raritan and Jabsco Joker Valves. They did determine in their testing and on their test boat that although both valves were good, they found the Jabsco to be the 'Best Choice' in terms of its ability to open wider (tri-cuspid), greater clog resistance and didn't leak. They found the Raritan to be excellent at chemical resistance (made of Nitrile vs Neoprene), it didn't resist stale urine as well as the other valves; "it became stiff, lost resistance and leaked (in the lab and test boat)". From their statement that "The Raritan valve is generally considered to be the most durable, but in our testing..." it seems that the results were a bit of surprise.
I've owned two Jabsco heads (manual) and two Raritan's (PHII and Sea Era) and there is no question to me that the Raritan's are far superior overall, but these results did surprise me. I know that many don't give much weight to PS, but to me it is another valuable data point along with personal experience and the experience of others....I carry a spare Raritan, but may pick up a Jabsco as well. They are interchangeable....hope this helps..

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Aug 21, 2013

Did they talk about winterization at all?

My biggest problem with the Jabsco came after winterization. From my experience and what I have read the issue is the Jabsco isn't resistant to the alcohol used to winterize the heads. So after our spring launch, it started back leaking. Replaced it with another Jabsco, same thing next season. Replaced it with a Raritan, and no issues this season.

We live aboard in the summer (and soon full time) so the stale urine isn't an issue for us (always refilling it with fresh

) but I could see that being an issue for weekend users. I will agree that based on the design, the Jabsco seems less likely to clog. However, we haven't had any issues with the Raritan and like I said, we live aboard, so we do everything onboard as far as the head is concerned.

If I was in a warm climate that didn't require winterization, I would likely give the Jabsco another shot but if you have to winterize, go with the Raritan, IMHO.

Fair winds,

Jesse

Solstice · Aug 21, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Did they talk about winterization at all?

My biggest problem with the Jabsco came after winterization. From my experience and what I have read the issue is the Jabsco isn't resistant to the alcohol used to winterize the heads. So after our spring launch, it started back leaking. Replaced it with another Jabsco, same thing next season. Replaced it with a Raritan, and no issues this season.

We live aboard in the summer (and soon full time) so the stale urine isn't an issue for us (always refilling it with fresh ) but I could see that being an issue for weekend users. I will agree that based on the design, the Jabsco seems less likely to clog. However, we haven't had any issues with the Raritan and like I said, we live aboard, so we do everything onboard as far as the head is concerned.

If I was in a warm climate that didn't require winterization, I would likely give the Jabsco another shot but if you have to winterize, go with the Raritan, IMHO.

Fair winds,

Jesse

Jesse,
Actually they did quite a comprehensive analysis on everything from the glycols (ethylene and propylene) to oils, urine, acids, bleach etc, etc.
Your experience is in line with their findings--propylene glycol is not a good choice for Neoprene or Nitrile. It is even worse for Nylon strainers such as those on some raw water systems and fresh water pumps. Stale Urine seems to be the worst culprit of all.
We too live aboard for the most part over the summer and spend several weeks cruising. I have set up a fresh water flush option and we only use salt water to flush when we are away for more than a week to preserve our FW. As Peg Hall recommends, we flush with FW at the end of the day when using salt water...
One additional interesting result was CLR seemed to be a better alternative to Vinegar for removing scale with less swelling. Although the vinegar worked and the swelling was 'minor and harmless' in the neoprene valve but not the nitrile valve", the CLR was less so with much faster descaling.

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Aug 21, 2013

Very cool info. I might have to start getting PS again. I cut it when we cut paper magazine subscriptions as part of our live aboard plan. I think they have an electronic version though.

What did you do for a fresh water flush set up? Curious how other Catalina owners do it. I am thinking of changing mine. Currently have a Y valve system to go from the head sink or the thru-hull but mainly just use the shower hose to add fresh water.

A friend just bought a 89 C30 and it had a setup I like better. The head sink drain had a T installed between the thru-hull and the sink drain and that was connected to the intake for the head. If I did that it would free up the head intake thru-hull to use for an anchor/deck wash-down system.

We are getting the boat ready to go cruising (plan to leave in 22 months) and want to get some of the systems set up better for the long term.

Fair winds,

Jesse

Solstice · Aug 21, 2013

JK_Boston_Catalina310 said:
Very cool info. I might have to start getting PS again. I cut it when we cut paper magazine subscriptions as part of our live aboard plan. I think they have an electronic version though.

What did you do for a fresh water flush set up? Curious how other Catalina owners do it. I am thinking of changing mine. Currently have a Y valve system to go from the head sink or the thru-hull but mainly just use the shower hose to add fresh water.

A friend just bought a 89 C30 and it had a setup I like better. The head sink drain had a T installed between the thru-hull and the sink drain and that was connected to the intake for the head. If I did that it would free up the head intake thru-hull to use for an anchor/deck wash-down system.

We are getting the boat ready to go cruising (plan to leave in 22 months) and want to get some of the systems set up better for the long term.

Fair winds,

Jesse

I simply Teed the sink drain to the flush intake. When using fresh, we simply close both seacocks (sink and head intake) and fill the sink. This accomplishes a couple of things, it allows us to choose between fresh and salt and also allows us to keep our FW from going stale (101 gallons). This a fairly common mod and works great. I did this on our 320 and was literally the first change I made to the new boat. Note this does not tie the fresh water into the black water system, it simply diverts water going into the sink from going overboard. It also helps us determine how much water is going into the holding tank as our sink holds approximately 1 gallon of water. When using salt, just open the seacocks as you would normally do. Requires two T fittings, short piece of hose to connect the T's and hose clamps. If you would like pics and more details PM me.
Hope this helps...

JK_Boston_Catalina310 · Aug 21, 2013

That's similar to what I have now (I have a Y valve instead of a T between the sink and head intake) but I am thinking, why do I need the dedicated intake for the head? What if I just had the T on the sink drain? Wouldn't that allow me to flush with salt water when open, then close the thru-hull, fill the sink with fresh water (or a mix of fresh water and vinegar or CLR) and then flush fresh water through the system.

That would lessen my thru-hulls by one and I could then either patch one up or use it for a different purpose, like a salt water washdown for the anchor.

Just a thought.

Jesse

thinwater · Aug 21, 2013

Witzend said:
The biggest issue with the Jabsco is not to use the cheep stuff to winterize, the alcohol raises hell with the rubber parts, especially the joker valve.

The propylene glycol is the problem (pink stuff). Ethylene glycol (automotive) or ethyl alcohol do not affect the neoprene, and draining according tot the manual works well.

Stu Jackson · Aug 21, 2013

Head Odors 101.1 - "T" into sink drain: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5755.msg38216.html#msg38216

New Jabsco Regular Installation

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