New Instruments

kappykaplan · Nov 8, 2022

redlegmsg66 said:
Should I have two chartplotters? One at the helm and one at the nav station

When I brought my boat into this century (electronically speaking!) to replace the defunct below-deck radar screen, I went for two chart plotters. Radar display below deck at the nav station is worthless when I'm at the helm. Congratulations on your new-to-you sailboat! :beer:

dlochner · Nov 8, 2022

The Vulcan will control the AP computer if it is a B&G/Simrad AP. The drive units are basically agnostic but the computer part and controller need to be from the same brand.

For the primary chart plotter I would not rely on a touch screen only model. I have a 9" Zeus3s at the helm and a 7" Simrad version of the Vulcan at the Nav station. Wet fingers and bouncing boats makes using the touch screen a bit of challenge. The 7" display at the nav station is fine as I mostly use it to monitor instruments or just run a track while at anchor. It is also handy when the weather is nasty and you want to see how hard the wind is blowing, no need to go out to the cockpit. Also, the smaller display draws a little less current.

Lots of folks use a tablet as a secondary or primary navigation tool. It works. Be aware though that the screens typically are difficult to see in bright daylight and battery consumption is very high, so there is a need for additional battery packs or a USB port where the tablet is being used. The AP cannot be controlled from a tablet. The B&G remote control for the AP is cool. A small fob gives basic control over the AP. This is handy when it is cold or when visibility is better when away from the helm.

Rather than mirroring the chartplotter on the tablet, we use a different Nav program, Aquamaps, on the tablet. The two devices and programs were quite complimentary, each program had different strengths and weaknesses which was helpful especially on the ICW.

WayneH · Nov 8, 2022

I have an older Vulcan 7 with built in wifi. We use the shared screen with a tablet in the cockpit. The chartplotter will be able to control the autopilot if you have a nmea2000 compass IIRC. On my system, the tablet can not control the autopilot via WiFi for safety reasons. It would be ugly for someone to hack your system and steer your boat into the path of a ship. So an AP controller at the helm will need to be hardwired, not wireless.

We use a mount to hang the tablet off one of the bimini bows. When not in use, it makes a great rearview mirror.

dlochner · Nov 8, 2022

redlegmsg66 said:
So based on what I am reading so far I am thinking a Zeus 3 at the helm, a Vulcan at the nav station, the triton 2 instrument package, the halo 20 radar and appropriate B&G AP. Does that sound right.

Basically, that is the same system I have, except the radar, I have a 4g radar.

dlochner · Nov 8, 2022

redlegmsg66 said:
What accessories do I need or does everything come with the respective systems, instruments, radar, auto pilot etc

For the most part you will get everything you need, except for the trunk cable. You may need some other wiring, that will depend on your boat what's there.

There is very little mark up on electronics, so shopping for a deal won't save much. Talk to West Marine and Defender see what prices they will give you. If you have a WM Gold Membership you'll get 5% back in store credits.

If you intend to hire an installer to install them, buy the electronics from the installer they will treat you much better and it won't cost much, if any more than had you bought the devices online.

Davidasailor26 · Nov 8, 2022

I know multiple Zeus’s can share charts among each other, and I think multiple Vulcan’s cannot. Can a Zeus at the helm share its charts to a Vulcan in the cabin? Just thinking that might be a consideration in some cases.

dlochner · Nov 8, 2022

Davidasailor26 said:
I know multiple Zeus’s can share charts among each other, and I think multiple Vulcan’s cannot. Can a Zeus at the helm share its charts to a Vulcan in the cabin? Just thinking that might be a consideration in some cases.

I don't know. Good question to ask B&G. All the units come with a baseline world chart, but those aren't very detailed.

BarryL · Nov 9, 2022

Hi,

You have received a lot of good information here. I will just a few bits here and there.

You didn't mention a VHF radio or AIS. You must have a VHF. I recommend you also get an AIS Transponder (so you are broadcasting your information and are able to receive AIS information as well). B&G makes that as well so you should just stick with one manufacturer.

I can't really think of a good reason to have two chartplotters. I have a Zeus 9 mounted at the helm. I use Navionics charts on the Zeus and the Navionics boating app on my iphone, ipad and Samsung Andriod tablet. When I did my two week sailing trip to Maine I did all of my charting work in the Ipad or Tablet and then transferred the route to the Zeus. I also ran the Navionics app on the Samsung and I could mirror the Zeus display if I wanted too.

Some other electronic gear you should consider is battery management. How are you going to charge the batteries? How are you going to monitor the batteries?

What about your transducers? The latest Airmar DST (Depth Speed Temperature) models can be calibrated with bluetooth, compensate for heel, and do all sorts of amazing things. What about SONAR so you can see the bottom you are anchoring in (and maybe find some fish too)

Good luck,
Barry

LloydB · Nov 9, 2022

One reason why you might want an installer has already been mentioned and that is they might be able to get equipment and parts at nearly a similar price as you would pay for them separately. Their dealings with manufacturers would also provide an inventory of bulk purchased and trusted connection hardware. Another reason is that they could best advise you on out of country repair and replacement parts and technical support if you got in a pinch away from home because they would understand your system software and hardware connectivity. It probably wouldn't hurt post this question on the cruiser forum too.

Scott T-Bird · Nov 9, 2022

I would take a close look at the Defender pricing. I just bought a new 12" Zeus3 for about half price because it's not the latest model. I think they may have some left, so I would act fast if you can live with the model that isn't current. I networked with my Raymarine instruments, but decided to buy the Triton package for 2 displays anyway, based partially on the improved transducers as Barry described. I'm going with the wireless wind transducer. It requires a bluetooth antenna mounted somewhere on the boat (it comes with the package - as does the external ZG100 GPS Antenna). Basically, these packages come with a T-joiner with each component and a basic drop cable. I'm finding that the supplied drop cables may be too short. Also the cable from the S/T/D ducer is too short to reach the helm. You will need to plan out your wiring and supplement all the backbone cables and joiners as you find necessary. I'm going thru that now, with the added complication that I am networking a few other brands. I'm still sorting it out ... slowly. This is all plug and play, so I don't think it is necessary to hire an installer, unless you just don't have time to do it yourself.

You definitely want the Zeus at the helm for the reasons already stated. Defender had some left-over Vulcans, too, for super low prices that I think is a great idea for the nav station. They all come with C-Map on Zeus and Vulcan (from Defender) so there is no need to purchase a separate navigation chart package. Yes, the standard offering is the baseline chart, which is useless, but Defender puts C-Map on all the chartplotters regardless. I like Navionics very much but I'm perfectly happy with C-Map for now, so I've found no reason, yet, to purchase additional.

I didn't buy the B&G VHF with AIS transponder yet, but that may be a purchase next year. It's absolutely the way to go if you need a VHF radio. I'd guess that if you want redundancy in your autopilot, wouldn't it make sense to have an electronic system and a wind vane system?

I had a small Vulcan chartplotter with the Triton displays and a B&G VHF with AIS receiver . This was on my previous boat and I loved the system even though I had it only briefly. I'm starting to replace everything on our current boat with all B&G. But it will be a long time, if ever, that I tackle a project to replace the wheel pilot with below decks pilot. The wheel pilot is Raymarine for now.

FastOlson · Nov 9, 2022

For years I have patronized our (last) local bricks-n-morter marine electronics store. They do expert installs, and are knowledgable about these systems. While I could save a nickel or three buying off the "net", the "net" cannot come to my boat and trouble shoot problems when I get in a jam. I have observed a local technician do a whole install of a new plotter/radar/cabling setup in under a day. Having done this myself in the past I knew that I could do it, but not under a a week....
Most of You are all probably smarter and faster and younger and can work faster..... but watching a pro I could see that I was spending money wisely and saving a butt load of time by having it done. His results are guaranteed too. And they gave me a matching equipment discount against other local branches of national chain sale prices like WM.
They also allowed me to check for magnetic interference with our compass, and this disqualified several competing units.
Editorial: I believe that it's worth spending an extra $50. or so to maintain local business and the services they provide. ( 'Amazon' does not make house calls.)

We have a Lowrance 9" radar/plotter system with mated Simrad vhf/AIS. Aside: love the digital (very detailed) display on the radar.

Marmalade · Nov 9, 2022

BarryL said:
I can't really think of a good reason to have two chartplotters.

Not to discredit @BarryL, but I think the most simple reason to recommend two chartplotters is the stated goal for a full circumnavigation... wouldn't go all that way without a redundancy... a tablet w/ internal GPS is a good 2nd backup which would allow both screen share and a standalone chart plotter app.

Sounds like you're leaning that way anyway, so if I'm spending your money, I'd definitely keep both in the plan!

capta · Nov 11, 2022

redlegmsg66 said:
A little background first as I think that will impact answers.

Recently purchased my third and last sailboat. It will be my retirement home and take me as far as I can goand hopefully for a full circumnavigation. It is a custom built 51 foot, 40000 lb beauty who needs a little TLC.

One of those areas is the instruments, chartplotter etc. My plan is to replace everything, it is all very old and parts do not work. I am thinking a B&G Vulcan chartplotter, Triton 2 wired with full sensor pack, the Halo 20 radar and appropriate autopilot.

Questions. Will the chartplotter control the autopilot directly?

Should I have two chartplotters? One at the helm and one at the nav station or should I just use the share screen system and use a tablet?

I am trying to work out the total cost for this system and I am open to your ideas and experience.

Personally, I'd go with Garmin. I've been using them since they joined the market. As for two chart plotters, we had a 10" plotter at the helm and a 6" in our stateroom, that I could see from our bed, with one sleepy eye, connected to each other. I could yell at the helmsman that he was 1 degree off course and, if I was feeling mean, to get his sh*t together!
I've no experience with B&G since the '60s when they built great gear for navigating by sextant, except that I bought a brand new B&G autopilot motor that was 30 years old, and they didn't even know it existed. No records at all.