new engine? Rebuild? Make do?

[adamv]

Hi, my newport 28 had a bad winter with high humidity (esp due to backed up drain + over dripping stuffing box + no shore power/heat) in the engine compartment which has led to some pretty serious corrosion across much of the lower half of the Universal M18 - just looking at the cost of replacement parts to make good is likely to run into the thousands for the parts alone. The front mount, the prop coupling and the dipstick are looking fragile plus plenty of other bolts heads that i question whether can be unscrewed.

I see a vetus M2.18 retails around $2700 USD - has anyone tried replacing the universal M18 with one of these in a N28II? The footprint is fairly similar but the shape is different enough to make me question whether it would fit well.

A second option would be a partial rebuild of the engine - it runs fine, but with so much paint on the bottom peeled away its only going to get worse.

I guess a 3rd option would be to leave the engine in place and try to replace all servicable parts / bolts and coat any exposed and corroded metal with some sort of preservative - of course the access ranges from great to diabolical in the N28 and parts like the front mount would require at very least the engine to be fully disconnected and lifted - at which point, would it not be easier to pull it all the way out and go for option 2?

Any thoughts or general advice would be most welcome, thanks!

 

[dmax]

You could pull it and treat and re-paint most of it - the oil pan metal is pretty thick and the rest is thicker. Replace just what's not repairable. You can fill in rust craters with epoxy. If it runs fine, that's what I would do. A project but not nearly the level of a rebuild or replacement. You can make it look like new fairly easily.

 

[adamv]

thanks - of course i'd like to minimise the level of project and of cost (and also long term maintence and added value). If all bolt heads were easy to remove and lifting the engine to replace the mounting brackets was straightforward, cheap and easy of course it would be a no brainer. The problem is that from what i can tell i may or at least repair have to replace: raw water pump ($USD450-$800), very corroded front mounting bracket (USD$800 ), the dipstick tube (USD$180), the three engine mounts ($200), the stop cable ($150), probably the prop coupling ($540 - i think) and this is all assuming the corroded bolt heads come off. So I'm already up to about the cost of a brand new vetus if i do have to replace parts.

Yes, apart from the pump which is weeping, the M18 is running perfectly fine, but with such expensive parts (which seem to get more expensive by the day as supply becomes limited), plus the chances of rusted boltheads not undoing and needing re-boring, it genuinely feels im near the crossover to pulling the engine, selling it as working or as parts and replacing it with a quieter, smoother model with zero hours. (Given that M18 parts seem like gold dust, i could actually make money from it)

I guess my question is: have I missed something? The equation seems obvious, but are there any hidden considerations, such as "will a vetus fit in a N28 easily?" Will fitting a new engine be a whole lot more work than pulling a corroded engine, replacing a bunch of rusty parts and refinishing and painting the ones that can be kept?

 

[dlochner]

Have you considered a Beta or Nanni? Both are based on a Kubota block with parts readily and inexpensively available. While Vetus is a reputable brand, they are not common in North America which may lead to expensive and difficult to find parts.

 

[David in Sandusky]

When we bought our '77 h27 in 2000, the Yanmar SB8 engine was working fine, and moved us well when there was no wind cruising all around Lake Erie. After about 10 years, we had to replace it due to repeated performance issues and a blown head gasket.

I later learned from Rick, (who owned the boat before the owner who sold it to us) that around 1996, our boat suffered a similar winter flooding that luckily did not cover the engine entirely. Rick got the boat for free, and restored the lower cabin and engine to good working order. These small diesel engines are amazingly simple and robust machines. Ours lasted 14 years after Rick cleaned off the rust.

Rust can look terrible without actually destroying the utility of the steel parts under it. I would encourage you to clean off the rust, then replace only the pump that malfunctions, paint it and use it. The fact that it runs OK says that it may have a long life ahead of it. Another idea would be to invite a good diesel mechanic to assess the engine after you clean off the rust and before you apply paint.

Remember that you have another power source if you lose your engine - the wind. So you can get to port for support and repair if your engine fails on you. I've done that twice, once on our boat and again on our friends' h30.

 

[adamv]

Thanks David and yes I am convinced there's life in the engine- it's just that someone has to do the work to remove or repair quite badly corroded parts

Rust can look terrible without actually destroying the utility of the steel parts under it. I would encourage you to clean off the rust, then replace only the pump that malfunctions, paint it and use it. The fact that it runs OK says that it may have a long life ahead of it. Another idea would be to invite a good diesel mechanic to assess the engine after you clean off the rust and before you apply paint.

The oberdorfer pump N202M has no sealed bearings and uses a grease cup which is prone to dripping and maintence. Its been a constant source of pain on the boat
I guess a refined question from me is: over time, as prices for parts for these obsolete machines becomes more sparce and expensive (and bearing in mind I have already spent approaching the cost of a new engine on a pump rebuild kit and alternator bracked upgrade alone) does there come a point where one cuts losses? And even if not, what are the gotchas with fitting a new engine?

 

[capta]

Not having seen it in person, if it was mine and it is as I picture it from your description, I'd build an A-frame in place, raise the engine to whatever height you can get it, and de-rust, prime and paint the rusty parts.
It's not like these engines aren't built for use around salt water, a pretty caustic environment. A properly prepared and painted engine can last a pretty long time, if the engine doesn't get continually immersed.

 

[jssailem]

1. I am convinced there's life in the engine
2. does there come a point where one cuts losses?
3. And even if not, what are the gotchas with fitting a new engine?

I went through that same thought challenge 21 months ago. I am convinced there is no magic answer. Each owner has different feelings involved. If you are married to your boat, you will move mountains to keep it viable. Rebuild broken things, replace systems that can not be repaired, etc.
The depth of your wallet and what you are willing to commit to the projects also influence the decision process.

I owned a sailboat that met my expectations. The boat's sailing infrastructure, which included sails, mast, standing rigging, running rigging, and hull, had been renewed. The problem was a dead motor. Getting in or out of the marina was impossible. The boat's value was now 25% of its worth. The challenge

1. Scrap a perfectly good sailing boat tied to a slip for the parts that were worth more than the Whole.
2. Buy a new engine for north of $30K, considering the re-engineering of the engine plant and transmission and a 6-9 month delay before the engine can be shipped.
3. Try to rebuild the engine and transmission because they fit the engineered space and were projected to cost 45% of the new power plant costs.

I chose plan 3. It took twice as long as expected, yet the cost numbers were accurate. I am still in the final stages of cleaning up the damage associated with removing and reinstalling the engine and transmission. Yet, the repowered results are as good as or better than expected.

You have:

1. An engine that is running.
2. You may not be at the point of cutting your losses if all the rust is surface rust. The issues you mention regarding parts being replaced are considered expendable parts for a mature boat.
   1. The front mount, the prop coupling, and the dipstick look fragile, there are plenty of other bolt heads that I question whether they can be unscrewed.
   2. The problem is that from what i can tell i may or at least repair have to replace: raw water pump ($USD450-$800), very corroded front mounting bracket (USD$800 ), the dipstick tube (USD$180), the three engine mounts ($200), the stop cable ($150), probably the prop coupling ($540 - i think) and this is all assuming the corroded bolt heads come off.

I note that many of the priced items are listed with conditional wording "may," "probably," and "assuming." If you are ok with an old engine that is working on the boat, then replacing the original parts with new parts is an act of extending the life of the engine and boat. I would say that is a good thing, not a bad thing if you are pleased with the way the boat performs.

I try not to get ahead of myself about things that may go wrong on my boat. Live/Sail in the present. Rusted/corroded bolt heads can often be removed with little more than some penetrating oil and an impact driver. I found this to be true on many of the studs that held the head to the engine block of my 48-year-old engine.

Take the process one day at a time.
If, on the other hand, you are unhappy with the boat. If it is too small, or it sails poorly, then you might be better off selling the boat and finding something that better suits your needs.

 

[dmax]

Also, when pricing parts, get them from a Kubota dealer, not a Universal dealer. Often 1/4 the price, always way less. You just need to determine the Kubota block number for your engine.

 

[kloudie1]

A good read..
Gemini’s Open Heart Surgery | s/v Gemini (svgemini.com)

 

[adamv]

Also, when pricing parts, get them from a Kubota dealer, not a Universal dealer. Often 1/4 the price, always way less. You just need to determine the Kubota block number for your engine.

thanks Dmax i did ask a kubota dealer about a z600 dipstick tube but the diagram showed the shape is slightly different. I assume its different in the M18 to accomodate the front mount. FYI The price for the z600 part was only around 30% less so definately not worth trying and hoping for the best or adapting it.