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Anchor Down

Opinions are like noses.

Don't even think wood. Those romantic impulses are for guys with inexhaustible time and money. Didereaux gives the most sound advice. For $15k cash, these "classic plastic" boats from the early days of fiberglass construction can be a good value. Their innate durability means you get a good hull that would cost you much more to get in the later production models you mention. You don't explicitly mention your intended use, but hint at coastal cruising ("exploring") the CA coast. Just the delta can keep you busy for a long time before you need to worry about going under the GG. If you're in it for the discovery instead of performance sailing, speed is not your primary requirement, those classic models can be everything you need. Here is a link to the site of a Pearson Triton owner who has exploited the liveaboard possibilities of this old cruiser: www.atomvoyages.com There is a Pearson Triton lying at Oxnard on Yatchworld.com asking 9k. It's a fair representation of what that's all about. OTOH, there are a couple of decent Catalina 30's lying down here in southern Cal. for under 15K. A bit thrashed, but nothing a steady trickle of cash can't fix to your taste. And they look very sailable. The advantages of this model over the Triton would be larger interior volume that will feel more spacious (they're wider, and the floor plan pushes everything to the outside of the hull), newer systems (including AC refrigeration) and possibly some decent replacement sails. Storage will still be inadequate and require your ingenuity. Whatever your choice, if you're planning on living aboard, you will need to know beforehand which features reallyy matter to you: many insist on standing headroom throughout (most of) the saloon; adequate storage space (but you'll still have to sell/store the majority of your possessions; an fully functioning galley, and likely AC refrigeration that will run off shore power that you plug into while in the slip. But only you know your own needs WRT creature comforts. I personally would want a functioning marine toilet. Most of my liveaboard friends walk up the gangway to the marina toilets/showers anyway, but I just couldn't live full-time on a boat with just the P-john. The internet is full of advice about the practical aspects of living aboard, and there are some very good books at Barnes N Noble. Names like Beth Leonard and Liza Copeland are worth finding and reading, but they are just the tip of the iceberg. This is a huge change in lifestyle; make sure you know what you're getting into. I'd spend at least a year educating myself and preparing for the transition first: reading everything I could get my hands on, researching possible boat choices online and in print, trying to narrow the field to 3 or 4 models, reducing my current expences drastically to boost my purchasing power, and beginning to eliminate all unnecessary possessions (the garage is a great place to start: be the yard sale king of your street). I assume you are in your wage-earning years, so can divert a significant portion of your income into upgrades/maintenance. Even if you use what you're paying now in rent, you will have a good bit left each month after slip fees/insurance, so you can upgrade as you go. Don't be in a rush. You only get to spend this money once, so do it as wisely as you can. Oh, and I'd definitely hire a surveyor, to protect myself. You can depend on luck, but prudence delivers more consistent results. Good "luck" then, and come back with questions. AD
 
Apr 6, 2004
16
Hunter 30_74-83 Solomans MD
Read.

There are a number of good books on boat buying and about what to look for. One that I used about ten years ago and found helpful is "How To Buy The Best Sailboat" by Charles Gustafson isbn 0-688-03981-2. Also, "This Old Boat" by Don Casey isbn 0-07-157993-1. Practical Sailor is a publication you will want to subscribe to. They also publish a buying guide that reviews many boats. Most production boats have owner's web sites, like this one. You can read owner's reviews of their boats and ask them specific questions by e-mail. All of this will make you an informed buyer. Good Luck. You are into an exciting, expensive passtime/obsession.
 
Jun 16, 2004
203
- - -
Time well spent is the ultimate investment

Buy the boat this winter while prices are better and sail it as quickly and often as possible. Gold and silver may rise...but time does nothing but decrease. To me, a moments joy sailing today is worth more than awaiting fiscal benifits tommorrow.
 
B

Bob

Priorities

Rather than looking for a specific brand, you should be looking for a good boat in your price range (I agree, for you $7,500 is a reasonable number that will buy a decent boat in the 25 to 30 foot range.) Don't be in a hurry, talk to a lot of other owners of various brands in those sizes and ask them what they like and don't like about their boats, buy a copy of Practical Sailor's 2 volume publication reviews of used boats, spread the word at local marinas that you are a serious buyer looking for a well-kept boat in that range. Sooner or later you will find a finicky owner who has kept his boat in real good shape and who, due to other circumstances (age, health, moving, etc.) is willing to sell at a good price for you. A good survey will pay for itself - even if it doesn't reveal problems with the boat that you can use to talk down the price, it will zero in on things that you need to upgrade, or at the very least reassure you that everything is perfect (never happens.) And you can refer to it in the future when you decide to sell. Above all, notice how many (or few) wood boats you see at any given marina. There is a reason. If you are dying to do some woodwork, take a night class in furniture-making. Then you will only have to finish it once. You will sail in inverse proportion to the amount of wood on your boat.
 
Nov 12, 2004
160
Hunter 37.5 Kemah, Tx
Now we're giving investment advise?

Wow, investment advise on a boating website, okay. I'd second Anchor Downs advise as well as Didereaux. I have spent a lot of time looking at boats and for what you seem to want the "classic plastics" are the way to go. I love the Pearsons, Cape Dorys and the Albergs but my wife did not want a project boat and doesn't really appreciate the classic designs. As for surveyors, it's you're call. For the amount of money you are spending you may want to find someone that has a good idea of the major pitfalls to watch out for and see if they will help. There are lots of very knowledgeable guys in the SF area on this site that might be willing to help out. Anyway you look at it you are going to spend some money to fix up the boat, you just don't want to start by replacing the engine or having major delamination issues. Also remember this, boating stuff is expensive but for good reasons. Salt water is a very corrosive element as you are well aware of from your Navy days. Most stuff you can buy at Home Depot will not last very long on a boat. Before spending money on stuff that is not marine designed to save so bucks you might want to check on this site first. I can guanantee you someone here has already tried it. Good luck and enjoy the search, it's part of the fun. Tom s/v At Last
 
Jun 7, 2004
383
Schock 35 Seattle
My Two Cents

I suppose some of my thoughts are a repeat of some above but here is what I think: 1. Get some lessons (You are doing that) and join a sailing club. This will allow you to try several different boats in your sailing area. You can get a feel for the balance of comfort, speed, safety you are happy with. 2. I would second the opinion of Louis above. The Mac 26 is a few feet shorter than your target boat, but it is hard to beat for a beginner. It also has the interior space of most 30 foot keelboats. If you get into trouble drop the sails and motor for home at 18 knots. It won't sail as well as a keelboat, nor will it motor as well as a motor boat, but it does both well enough to be ideal learn on. Another benefit is that when you sell it you will not lose very much if anything at all on it. I have bought and sold two of these boats and got back essentially what I spent on them. 3. When your ideas firm up about the performance you want check out the referenced site to compare boats. Personally I would stick with fiberglass, but I understand the appeal of wood and maybe you have lots of time to dedicate to keeping it up. (Not to mention cash! http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Wow,

I can't believe I read this whole thread with the goal of telling you to NOT BUY A WOOD BOAT! That makes the score 28 to 0. As far as reading; good advice there too. When you buy Don Caseys' 'Good Old Boat', you will open it and read the preamble. I'll save you the trouble. It says 'Never buy a wood boat'! Honest!:)
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,224
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
No way on a MAC 26.........

If you want a lot of room and want to cruise at 18 knots, buy a house boat. If you want to sail, by a real sailboat. If you want wooden, get a boat with a fiberglass hull and lots of brightwork, such as a cheoy lee. Fifteen thousand limit your choices, so go with the older fiberglass models and save some dough to fix it up. That Mac 26x is NOT what you are looking for. Sorry to insult the Mac crowd.... but that's my opinion.
 

Oktarb

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Dec 12, 2005
5
- - San Francisco
A follow up for the great people here.

First and foremost THANKS! You made this so much easier than I could have imagined. I've begune my shopping, mostly on boats.com, yachytworld and 38 degree's. here's a list of boats I'm looking at after reading the advive here: Catalina 27 1979 John Hanna Gulfweed 1958 - nice lines Ericson 32' 1969 Clipper Marine 32' 1975 Islander 30' 1974 Sloop 30' - waiting for more info Rawson Blue Water Cruiser 30' 1968 - have to have it shuttleed up here. Catalina 27 1972 Catalina 27 1977 Ericson 27 1973Catilina 27 1978 What ya think am I on the right track? Feel free to rip into them, the main reason I didn't provide links.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,187
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
All About Condition

...at those ages. I would pass on the Clipper 32 based on my personal criteria. Any of the Islanders, Catalinas or Ericsons are worth considering. Find out what the engines are, what the sail inventory is, what the electronics are and when the last bottom job was done. I like the Ericson 32 and Islander 30 a lot. Both are pretty boats too. However, they are a step up in price and maintenance from the 27's, so be aware of that before you fall in love with the accomodations. Remember to factor in your slip fees into all this. Have fun, Rick D.
 
J

jim

we live to be insulted

Hey Joe, we live to be insulted. It comes with the territory. We luv em for what they are anyway. Regardless, I agree with your recommendation.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
An Islander 30 is the boat

That I found advertized in 1989 and I liked the shape, Full keel, raised deck, a ton of work that needed to be done. Best of all after 9 years of work refitting her and six years of sailing my Wife still loves the boat and is sad when it is hauled in the fall and pushing to have it ready in the spring.
 
Feb 12, 2005
143
- - Lake Worth, FL
ive worked on the Ericsons before, they are

pretty good boats. I have a Morgan 35 right now, got it for 10,000$, and it is a nice boat. Also check boattraderonline.com, there are lots of good listings there too. heres a few i saw: 1980 CATALINA 30 SLOOP $14,945 1980 36 Lancer tall rig sloop $12,000.00 1974 Seafarer 34 $14,900.00 1973 COLUMBIA 34 $13,000
 
J

John Dawson

One simple point...

for living aboard is you can stand up and move around in most boats around 30ft and up. Most 27 footers fall short in these simple human requirements, and some ones that meet it have some quality issues (hey, no name calling). There are plenty of good boats at bargain prices and a little work, especially around old marinas with large yards. Many Cals, for instance, are way under-priced.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
If you want

full standing head room go on deck. I don't have the problem being shorter than the average bear at 5'5" I am able to stand where all of my brothers bump their heads. I often hear the term "vertically challenged" and I don't know if it refers to those that bump their heads when they walk around or those that must find a stool to reach the top shelf.
 
Jul 21, 2005
79
N/A N/A N/A
Sail someone else's boat.

Don't rush into buying your first boat. There's lots of variables and features to consider, and nothings better than first hand experience in helping you decide what you do and don't like. You don't have to try every make and model. Others have recommended joining a sailing club. Also, charter a boat for a week, and see what works for you while staying aboard. Cadge invites from sailing acquaintances. Walk the marinas and ask lots of questions. And unless your primary desire is racing, definitely go w/ classic plastic. I've got a '65 Islander 32, and it's bulletproof. Not sure when they started making them less solid, but I'm guessing mid to late 70s or earlier will be pretty solid (all else being equal). If you're PATIENT, (get your sailing fixes elsewhere), you can find some great bargains. Depending on how much skill and spare time you have, you could even find a solid boat for free, (I've seen ads for a few in the last couple months) and after fixing it up, have enough $$ left from your $15K budget to take off for an extended cruise. Just don't expect your first boat to be your last one. Once you get some more water under your keel, you'll know better what you do and don't like.
 
S

sailorbob

Take up butterfly collecting.

1). Dont buy a wooden boat. 2). Buy Classic Plastic for $7,000, spend the othr $8,000 fixing it up, and then try to sell it if you are not happy with it on Yachtworld for $7,000. 3) Buy a 27 footer made during the mid 1980's for approx. $7,000 to $8,000 in very good shape. Sail it the day you own it. Then IF you decise to upgrade in a few years, you will recoup approx. $7,000 back since the boat is not terribly old. 4) Find a boat for free. Spend 9 or 10 years of your life fixing it up and hope you are the one out of a hundred that actually does finish it up. Then find out you dont like that boat. By now its about 40 years old and worth about how much? You will be entering your golden years and still dont have the boat you want. 5) F**k it, you dont need a boat, invest in gold and silver. Aren't glad you asked?
 

Dennis

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Jun 4, 2004
316
Macgregor Venture 222 trailer
Go with your dreams,

From the time I was 15, I wanted to sail, but life has a way of getting in your way, or as the man said "Life is what happens to you while your busy making other plans! Finally at 50 I got my sail boat! My advise, dont wait, or you will be spending your life saying, why didnt I do it! My suggestion is dont spend all of your money for the new investment, but get something reasonable to start at least! If it needs a little work so what, I enjoy working on mine, and sail it at the same time! I find a boat owner is never totally satisfied anyway. Always want better and perhaps bigger! Maybe we are a selfish lot, I dont know! But do your dream, as life will pass you by, and you will wake up one day 50, and wondering! Personally I agree with the above statements, about going with the plastic boat!
 
S

steve rainey

what to Buy

When I was 19 I bought a 24'. Loved it but had to sell it. 30 years later I bought a 30'. All the time trying to determine what is the best size? I didn't want to buy something and have to sell it to trade up or down. Sometimes used boats are hard to sell. As for me, I enjoy working on them as much as sailing. I enjoy living on them and the perfect size for me is a 35 to 40'. Has the space to be comfortable and yet can sail it by myself. Lastly don't buy a wooden boat!
 
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