New battery wiring.

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Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
This is copied from a long thread on the Cherubini forum. After discussions with Maine Sail, Stu, and others I am upgrading the battery wiring. Never really had problems with the original five AGMs and all #4 wires but it certainly would not have met ABYC certification. So here is the new wiring with 1/0 cable, battery fuses, new Blue Sea switch, alternator directly to 12v bus bar, and 6v golf cart batteries in the bilge. For your examination and comments.

"Does that look like $370. worth of cable and assorted? I just hope at $5.40 a foot that I got the lengths right. I am not happy with the Blue Seas battery switch. It does not fit flush on the bulkhead, has legs. Maybe I bought the wrong one. The terminal strip will replace one for the mast wiring.

And here it is all wired to the new panel and ready for the boat. Everything is there but the batteries. And the cable from the charger. The 1/0 cable sure looks excessive. Will the next owner be impressed? Lower right is the fuse for the house batteries that will be fifteen feet away in the bilge. You can see that I kept a #4 wire for the direct alternator connection. The combiner wiring is #6. The Link 2000 shunt with all the new 1/0 ground wiring will be just a foot to the right of this panel. There are covers for everything so there are no exposed voltages. Snow is forecast so it might be 2012 before this sees the boat".
 

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Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Perhaps I'm dense. Do you have a combiner AND a 3-way switch? and what woudl be the point of this redundancy. Perhaps it is to automate the charging of the other bat when the engine is on?
A nice implementation though
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Bill Roosa said:
Perhaps I'm dense. Do you have a combiner AND a 3-way switch? and what woudl be the point of this redundancy. Perhaps it is to automate the charging of the other bat when the engine is on?
A nice implementation though
Click to expand
This is done for automation and ease of use mostly. It helps greatly to avoid HEF (human error factor). Both banks are automatically connected when a charge voltage is present, and more importantly, automatically disconnected or isolated from each other when no charging is present.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Bill, it is redundant. But works just fine, it's exactly what I have and it's been working for 13+ years. Put battery switch on house bank (for me #1, VERY important if you have a Link 2000 like Ed has), and just run the boat. The #2 is a reserve bank. Gets charged from the combiner with the switch on #1. If the combiner dies, use B, but only then.

MS and I have been promoting this design for over 10 years. Newer echo chargers work a tad better, but a combiner is just fine for normal use. I put a toggle I/O switch on the ground line from my combiner (says so in the installation manual) to avoid overcharging the reserve bank if you motor for extended periods.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I was under the impression that having a backup start battery was not the best utilization of your battery capability. A single large bank does not discharge as deeply as a smaller one. By placing all your batts in one bank you get longer battery life. If you really think you need a dedicated start battery then just isolate it when you are going for a long sail (very long) or are on the hook overnight.
This and the fact that diodes and solenoids will not give any indication of fault until that dedicated start battery does not start the engine are reason enough to just have a 3-way and manually control the banks. I don't recall ever hearing of a 3-way failing without some sort of event that the captain or crew were already aware of. There are lots of "call tow-boat-US" examples of diodes and solenoids failing though.
I guess I just don't mind flipping the switch on those occasions when I think I might drain the house/start bank below being able to crank the motor.
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Schematic-wise this new wiring is exactly what I have had for twelve years. The only exception is wiring the alternator directly to the house batteries(via the new bus bar) instead of to the common and back through the battery switch. Because of that change the combiner is required where before I could select charging with the switch.

My start battery is #1 and the house is #2. I will continue to do what I have always done, get on the boat and select #2. I have always started on the house bank.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Bill, no diodes are involved in this design. And Ed is right about the alternator output going directly to the house bank.

Ed, please, please, please, change your house bank to #1 to use your Link 2000 properly. Read the manual about the F11 function. If you have any questions about it, let me know, I have all the answers to that one after numerous discussions with Donalex and Rich Stidger. We understand how it works and can guide you through it. If, however, you don't have a Freedom inverter/charger, it may make no difference, but I'd suggest using #1 for the house anyway.
 
Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Ed Schenck said:
.. So here is the new wiring with 1/0 cable,...... I just hope at $5.40 a foot....
Click to expand
All that you posted looks great :). I'll bet besides any future owner you will also be happy with that wiring.

I've been getting my wiring from here....

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine Grade Wire/Marine Battery Cable/0 AWG Battery Cable UL/

...and they are slightly cheaper at $5.24 a foot. Not that much to worry about. If you don't mind sharing I'd like to know who you bought the wire through in case I'm looking for another source at some time.

Are your house banks single 12 volt batteries or 6 volt pairs in banks?

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
woodster

woodster

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Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Sumner said:
All that you posted looks great :). I'll bet besides any future owner you will also be happy with that wiring.

I've been getting my wiring from here....

http://shop.genuinedealz.com/Marine Grade Wire/Marine Battery Cable/0 AWG Battery Cable UL/

...and they are slightly cheaper at $5.24 a foot. Not that much to worry about. If you don't mind sharing I'd like to know who you bought the wire through in case I'm looking for another source at some time.

Are your house banks single 12 volt batteries or 6 volt pairs in banks?

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
Click to expand
how long sence you bought yours Sumner....copper has gone up of late....

there is no other source that will sell you exactly the linght you need...he will cut to your linght on order...the other ones sell in increments and you can also borrow his crimpers to do the work your self and pay the shipping back to him via a prepaid ups shipping lable that he sends to you with the crimpers....

regards

woody
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
I bought everything from GenuineDealz, was rounding up I guess. I do have a Link 2000. I do have a wiring diagram but obviously do not have a drawing program nor the time to adopt one. Supposed to be doing Christmas cards and printing labels. :( And finally I used to keep F-4 Phantoms flying off the carrier so am not totally incompetent. :)

About Stu's questions, if you could read the attached diagram it might answer some of them. The other picture was just showing location,
1. What kind of Link do you have? 2000 or 1000? You only show the reserve bank going to the shunt. If you only have a Link 1000 you should be measuring the house bank, not the start bank. It is a 2000, properly wired, has always worked with both banks.
2. There appear to be some thin lines going between the two bus bars. These would connect both battery banks. You DON'T want to do that. You asking about the combiner wires? Not sure.

3. You show the feed to the DC panel coming off the C post, but via the wire to the starter. I suggest you run the wiring direct from the C post to the DP and not all the way through the starter. Any Hunter I have ever worked on uses the starter post for the common and then on to the panel.

4. it's hard to read the A, B, C and D on your diagram. The + off your I/C should go to the PDP (your house bank bus bar). The A from your house bank should go there, too. I don't understand the D coming off the bus bar to the lower right of it, unless that's the negative from your house bank, in which case you're connecting + and -, not a good thing. I think questions 4 and 5 are just lack of detail.

5. If you have a Link 2000, you need to show more wiring at the shunt.

I guess I could finish that drawing(picture 1). But if you can read it I think the second picture is accurate. Do not understand why the Link 2000 cares which battery bank is house and which is starter.
 

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Sumner

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
woodster said:
how long sence you bought yours Sumner....copper has gone up of late..regards woody
Click to expand
Yep on copper prices. The prices I quoted above were from today on their site, but sounds like Ed 'rounded up'. I got all of my wiring from that place when I rewired the Mac and I need to get wiring for the Endeavour ordered soon. Didn't know about the crimper loan, thanks. I kind of came up with a system...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/inside-30.html

....that seemed to work ok and will probably use it again.

Ed Schenck said:
I bought everything from GenuineDealz, was rounding up I guess. I do have a Link 2000.....

..... And finally I used to keep F-4 Phantoms flying off the carrier so am not totally incompetent. :)...
Click to expand
I would guess not!! A very impressive plane.

I grew up just a couple miles from McDonnell Aircraft and the very first F-4's would come in right over our house on final approach. Then later I was on the USS Constellation and spent many an hour watching them do their semi-controlled crashes or at least that is kind of what it looked like as they landed on the flight deck. I'll bet you have some memories there :).

We have a link 2000 on the Endeavour also and I'm taking it out of the circuit when we go back, at least for a bit. Something is wrong on how the boat is wired and the batteries are being drained bad. I need to disconnect about everything and then start rewiring some of it with better components and see if I can get things back to working again.

We don't need the inverter at all, but I would like to get the battery monitor working again.

Good luck on your mods,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Ed,.

The reason for using battery #1 for the house is in the instructions for the Link 2000's FUNCTION F11. The default is for two equal battery banks, not a large house bank and a small reserve bank. You need to turn it to OFF to use #1 bank ONLY for avoiding turning the charger to float prematurely.

From the Link manual:

This will prevent the Link from making a premature transition to float based on the smaller engine battery meeting the charged parameters substantially before the house bank.
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
Now you have my attention. Wonder what I was doing to my batteries for ten years?! Have the book right here. Was looking forward to finishing my Michael Connelly novel. Guess it can wait.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Ed, which one? I just finished Blood Work and Void Moon. He's great. You could have been undercharging your house bank. Any ?s let me know.
 
Ed Schenck

Ed Schenck

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Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
The first one Stu, The Black Echo. I had read five Robert Crais' novels in Nov. when my stepson put me onto "Harry Bosch". And I lied, I did not read "Link 2000" last night. But I am reading it right now. And I see that you are right(of course). All that I ever read was the F11 function in bold print: F11 - BATTERY #2 USED FOR CONTROL, DEFAULT ON=BATTERY #2 USED FOR CONTROL, OFF=BATTERY #2 NOT USED FOR CONTROL. So I thought bank #2, my old house bank, was the controlling bank. Reading further I see that is not what is meant at all. Thanks again for catching that. Gonna' be hard to get used to using switch position #1.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Ed Schenck said:
Thanks again for catching that. Gonna' be hard to get used to using switch position #1.
Click to expand
Well, you have a new switch, so maybe it won't be so hard.

Think of the manual as a good new novel...just another plot twist...wish they could write manuals as well as Michael writes. :)
 
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