Need source for boat plumbing parts

sail sfbay · Aug 6, 2021

Local ACE hardware is my go-to store for plumbing parts. I recently purchased similar parts for a couple of fresh water toilets I installed.

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 6, 2021

As @sail sfbay said, any large big box hardware store.

-- Tee with 25 mm fittings - PVC Tee with barbed fittings.
- Tee with 20 mm inline and 25 mm at 90 degrees - two possible solutions here. Solution #1 - 25 mm. female threaded Tee with two 25 mm threaded X 20 mm barbed adapter and one 25 mm barbed X 25 mm threaded adapter. OR Solution #2 - one 25 mm female threaded Tee with two 25 mm X 20 mm threaded bushings plus two 20 mm threaded X 20 mm barbed adapters plus one 25 mm threaded X 25 mm barbed adapter.
-- A foot or so of 25 mm hose - white PVC hose
-- Valve with 25 mm fittings - 25 mm threaded PVC valve plus two 25 mm threaded X 25 mm barbed adapters.
-- Bunch of hose clamps - all SS construction.

You'll want to keep all of these fittings above water level to keep the installation kosher.

Here's a quick look at my recent installation with fresh water rinsing:

Tally Ho · Aug 6, 2021

I just use the shower head to do a nice clean fresh water flush at the end of the day.

But I like your idea.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Aug 6, 2021

Dr. D said:
So I will do it myself. If I could find the parts. The head sink drain is a 25 mm (ID) and the raw water intake is 20 mm. So I need:-- Tee with 25 mm fittings
-- Tee with 20 mm inline and 25 mm at 90 degrees/-- A foot or so of 25 mm hose
-- Valve with 25 mm fittings-- Bunch of hose clamps

When you installed this system on your previous boat, both you and Ralph apparently thought it necessary to run a second line off the head intake line to the sink drain line instead of just re-routing the head intake line to tee into the sink drain line...waaaaay over-complicating this job! I would never have advised you to do it that way.

You don't need all that stuff...the ONLY thing you need is the fitting to tee the head intake line into the sink drain line. Because it has to be metric to fit your plumbing, you may have to order it from a European source (try Canada first) It's just a relatively small PVC fitting, so you should be able to get it via airmail.

Instructions: Remove the head intake line from its thru-hull (close the seacock first!) and re-route it to tee into the sink drain line (you should be able to shorten it considerably). That tee needs to be below-waterline as close to the seacock as possible. This alllow you to flush with sea water as usual. To rinse all the sea water out of the entire system (anything poured into the bowl just goes out the toilet discharge line), close the sink drain thru-hull, fill the sink with clean water (never use gray water to flush toilets), flush the toilet. Because thru-hull is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the intake line, toilet pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the toilet discharge line. If find yourself in waters that are skanky enough that you don't want to flush with raw water, simply close the sink drain thru-hull and flush using water from the sink.

And btw, Ralph...I didn't see an intake vented loop in any of your photos. It needs to be between the pump and the bowl--to replace the short piece of hose toilets mfrs use to connect 'em--and at least 6-8" above waterline AT MAX HEEL, not just when the boat is at rest, which on most sailboats put it 2-3 FEET above the bowl.

--Peggie

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 6, 2021

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
When you installed this system on your previous boat, both you and Ralph apparently thought it necessary to run a second line off the head intake line to the sink drain line instead of just re-routing the head intake line to tee into the sink drain line...waaaaay over-complicating this job

Can't say I'm 100% clear on your layout for running a separate clean water line from the sink drain and Teeing it into the Sea water line. The sea water line was already in place so it made sense to do it this way rather than run the sea water line to the back wall, through the wall and into the drain from the sink. With the lines I already had into the back wall, this was the best looking install. In addition, if I had left the valve out in front of the bowl, my greatest fear was having some woman snag her unmentionables on the red handled valve or one of the many hose clamps. At that point, my life wouldn't be worth the powder to blow it to hell

.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress said:
And btw, Ralph...I didn't see an intake vented loop in any of your photos. It needs to be between the pump and the bowl--to replace the short piece of hose toilets mfrs use to connect 'em--and at least 6-8" above waterline AT MAX HEEL, not just when the boat is at rest, which on most sailboats put it 2-3 FEET above the bowl.

It's what you CAN'T see that tells the real story. This is a picture of the old Jabsco monster showing the pump discharge going into the rear wall, up to the height of the deck (about 4 ft. above the bowl), fitted with an anti-siphon device (inside the wall), and heading back down into the bowl.

When I installed the Raritan, I piped the anti-siphon with a 1/4" tube off the top and down into an out of sight location.

If the anti-siphon device should ever leak, it will show rather than soaking the interior wall. As far as the tube plugging, the inlet to the bowl is 2" above water line so it won't siphon while the boat is upright. May case a damp floor while heeled, but will stop once the boat is upright again.

And that's it for this year.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Aug 7, 2021

Ralph Johnstone said:
Can't say I'm 100% clear on your layout for running a separate clean water line from the sink drain and Teeing it into the Sea water line

Read the instructions again... "Remove the head intake line from its thru-hull (close the seacock first!) and re-route it (iow, just aim that end toward a tee in the sink drain line) (you should be able to shorten it considerably)." You don't need ANY additional hose...although if your head intake hose is old or clear water hose was used, you might consider replacing it.
Some boat builders used to plumb their toilets this way to eliminate one hole in the boat and also to save the cost of a thru-hull and seacock. I learned about it from a Tartan owner in the mid-'90s whose head was plumbed this way, fell in love the with idea and have recommending it ever since.

Ralph Johnstone said:
This is a picture of the old Jabsco monster showing the pump discharge going into the rear wall, up to the height of the deck (about 4 ft. above the bowl), fitted with an anti-siphon device (inside the wall), and heading back down into the bowl.

You do have one...I missed it. You certainly do like using a LOT of extra hose!

--Peggie

Stu Jackson · Aug 7, 2021

Ralph Johnstone said:
Can't say I'm 100% clear on your layout for running a separate clean water line from the sink drain and Teeing it into the Sea water line.

OK, here's pictures. Couldn't be simpler.

Head Odors 101.1 - "T" into sink drain: Head Odors 101 & Fresh Water to Head from the Sink in the Head FLIX

Ralph Johnstone · Aug 8, 2021

Dr. D said:
I remove the head sink drain line off its thru hull and Tee it just above the raw water intake thru hull.

In my opinion, a resounding yes. Let's wait for the ballots to be counted before making any moves.

Others (Peggie in words and Stu in pictures) have tried to explain this but I was still not getting the full picture. With the two in agreement and both against one, I can only conclude that my being blind in one eye and unable to see out of the other, may have contributed to my confusion.

In essence ................ use either your your sink drain thru-hull OR your head pump suction thru-hull but only the one. Whichever one is closest AND is below the water line. The one you don't use, cap it off (very securely) and save it for a rainy day. Run your drain line and pump suction line together into a Tee located on top of the chosen thru hull.

In my case, it would have made a bit messier installation with both hoses connecting at the head thru-hull in front of the bowl.

However, if the head pump suction thru-hull is to be used, as in the good doctor's case, this is the epitome of convenience. The sink drain line would not be tee'd but lead directly to the head pump inlet thru-hull and then ONLY the head pump inlet valve need be opened and closed along with the sink plug as required for flushing. No plug, no flush.

Yeah, maybe you kind of had to be there to get the full picture.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Aug 9, 2021

Dr. D said:
Peggie: We have a problem. The head sink thru hull is about a foot above the water line. Would this work: The raw water intake thru hull is (obviously) below the waterline. I remove the head sink drain line off its thru hull and Tee it just above the raw water intake thru hull.

Above-waterline drain thru-hulls are common on powerboats, but very rare on sailboats. Unless the head intake thru-hull is very close to the sink, I wouldn't do what you're suggesting for a couple of reasons: 1. it'll give you a too-long sink drain line. 2.All kinds of things--soap scum, toothpaste, body oils etc go down head sink drains that aren't very good for toilet pumps...the reason why flushing using gray water is a no-no.

There is a Plan B that'll give you a means to flush all the sea water out of the toilet and its plumbing. It's not as convenient as just closing a thru-hull and filling a sink with clean water, but it will work: a gallon milk jug full of water on a short line teed into the head intake line in an easily accessed location. However, depending on the location of the head intake thru-hull, closing it and also filling the jug to use it may be a bigger PITA than it's worth to you.

--Peggie

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Aug 10, 2021

How can one method be OK, but one method be not OK?
It's not a matter of which way is ok. The head sink drain thru-hull is usually close to the sink, so teeing the head intake line into it usually gives you pretty short head intake line which gives you a lot less hose to rinse out...iow, it's a lot simpler. It's also the way boat builders used to do it and when I learned about it, I saw no need to "re-invent the wheel."

But...it's your boat...Any way you want to do it is fine with me.

--Peggie

Tally Ho · Aug 12, 2021

Dr. D said:
Here is the head under sink space. I think rotating the sink drain hose attachment to the sink, then the hose will reach the raw water intake near that thru hull. The water level is below the PAR-MAX4 pump.

View attachment 197072

Dang, that is a clean, neat space!

very nice.

let us know how things turn out (and more photos).

Greg

Stu Jackson · Aug 12, 2021

I agree, can you come and make mine look like that?

Before you rotate that sink drain, be careful about breaking its seal with the bowl. It maybe easier to add a piece of hose to the end of the existing hose, maybe even a 90 degree elbow, to get it to go where you need it to go.

Good luck.

Remember, you ONLY need to use the sink for the LAST flush of the day before you leave. Otherwise, use seawater. Save you fresh water for onboard use.

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · Aug 18, 2021

Dr. D said:
After examining all the plumbing again, I'm going the simpler route. The sink drain hose is too short to reach the intake hose except near the pump intake, so what goes into the sink goes through nearly the entire intake hose. Replacing the sink drain hose with a longer hose gets into the "too long of a drain hose" situation.

That would be doing it backwards (which is the way a couple of people here have insisted on doing it). The last thing you want is a sink that drains into the head intake line, 'cuz gray water is not good for toilet pumps!

The right way: disconnect the intake line from its thru-hull (close the seacock first!) and reroute it to tee into the sink drain line below the waterline as close to the seacock as possible. That will almost certainly require shortening the head intake line.

--Peggie