Need help with refinishing deck plan

CaptDon01 · Apr 2, 2015

James,

Take a look at the WEST epoxy website on a preferred way to fill the old holes and re-bed hardware. I use a Dremel tool to under-cut any coring under the fiberglass. Then with the back taped, and the epoxy warmed so it flows better, the hole is filled and left to cure. Then the hole is re-drilled. The coring is now sealed and saturated with epoxy. This way "if" there is any leakage down the road, the water passes through the hole, and not into the coring. Any hole I drill in our boat to mount, or reinstall some hardware is done this way. And as a preventive maintenance task, I'm slowly filling and sealing all the factory hardware holes. Just a hint, make sure you have extra epoxy available. There are voids between the outer surface and the liner. When I was re-bedding my mast step, the epoxy kept flowing and flowing. I ended up using almost a quart of resin to fill the 3 mounting holes. Yup, takes a lot longer, but it saves the potential for a huge project down the road.

Attached are some photos taken when I was installing railings on the cabin top several years ago.

Don

CloudDiver · Apr 2, 2015

Don's trick with the Dremel tool to undercut core material is cool, I didn't think of that, but I also had very liitle if any water intrusion into my core material. I drilled and epoxy filled every single hole in my deck. I have not painted yet but you will see it in my resto thread in the coming weeks after I get the hull flipped back up-right. I made notes directly in your list below.

jmczzz said:
I have searched and read a lot about refinishing the top deck. Honestly, it's a lot more than my old brain can absorb. So I would appreciate guidance for simple steps, 1, 2, 3, etc.
What I gather is:
Step 1; strip off stanchions, rails, mast step, cleats, winches, port frames, all things screwed or bolted to the deck. (make sure you completely remove any sealant or bedding compound residue, especially butyle tape. Goof Off adhesive remover is great for this. Get the liquid, not the aresol can, better deal.)
Step 2; fill all holes with epoxy - silica mix & re-drill (unsure?: ) Yes, fill and redrill. The best way to tell if you had any water intrusion into the core material is during this process. I over-bored all my deck holes by one size, so drill out 1/4" holes with a 5/16" drill bit. When you drill and have clean, fresh wood drill shavings coming off the drill bit you will know that hole is clean and didn't have any water rot. If the shavings are dark/black and moist, bad news. If you have that result you need to determine if there was extensive soaking and rotting of the core material which will require a re-core job before proceeding. If there was only light water intrusion around the fastener, let the deck dry out for a few days. If you are getting nothing but clean wood shavings you are good to go. Tape off the backs of the holes like Don's pic and fill with epoxy. Use just a little Colloidal Silica which helps reduce bubbles but not much, you want it to stay thin liquid not thicken it. When the epoxy cures and you re-drill the hole to the original size you'll have a nice 'collar' of epoxy around the bolt that is waterproof. I recommend just drilling a small 'pilot divot' to mark the location of the hole and wait till after painting to drill through. Check Stingy Sailor's web page about using drill guides to ensure your holes are straight through, and counter bore the holes just a little (The West System Guide will explain why this important, critical actually)
Step 3; treat spider cracks with tullys crack sealer. (San everything with 80 grit on an orbital sander and de-wax with laquer thinner or acetone before you do this, then sand again after glue cures).
Step 4; coat deck with 1 - 2 coats of Interlux Pre-Kote. (Use 2 coats, then sand with 220)
Step 5; apply 1 coat of Interlux Topside Polyurethane. (Use 2 to 3 coats, this is a sensitive process and we can compare more notes when you get to that stage. You also need to consider what, if anything, you will do with the nonskid areas).
Step 6; final - use butyl tape to re-bed all deck mounted hardware, rails etc, and use CD kit to reseal ports.
This is a basic approach and I want to keep it to the basic best practices for service and appearance.
I know the "use search" reply so save it please. I've already got red eyes and frontal lobe short circuits from all that.
I am seriously looking for a thorough but simple plan to get this job done.
Thank you for helping me un-muddle brain and organize this project.
Please advise if I am missing somthing or need to add significant details.
James

Tobydaisy · Apr 2, 2015

OK, Now we need pictures

hawk232 · Apr 2, 2015

James- I felt the same way about "there must be an easier way"! Then I realized that my boat was 40 years old (it has 10 years on me!!) and had NO rot at all (I know, I cut 2" holes in every surface!!) so I am going back the same way they did it from the factory, except with better sealant (bed-it butyl). If it lasts another 40 years ill be good!

CloudDiver · Apr 2, 2015

Wow, you put in some work on that structure... good stuff.

Yes, WEST epoxy is a great brand. There are other epoxies that are equally good and roughly I find most around the same price, but what makes the West system better is the Pump set for $16, it measures out the exact amount of resin and Hardener needed with each pump (1 pump resin to 1 pump hardener). If you are doing general repairs you can probably get away with 1 gallon of resin to fix just about everything, but that all depends on how much you have to fix in total. I had to do a complete blister repair job, a keel refurbishment, and various other repairs... I am on my 3rd gallon! I was not very conservative...

For the non-skid areas; If there is no damage to the molded in tread and you don't sand it off, you can clean and dewax with acetone or whatever and just paint over it with some primer and then Interlux Interdeck which is just flat Brightsides with a nonskid additive (grit) premixed in. That would be the easiest way.

If there is damage to the gelcoat molded non-skid, or you just don't like it, de-wax it, sand it all down flat with 80 grit, and de-wax again. Paint it with primer, no need to put a Brightsides topcoat on that part, just roll on a new non-skid coating. Hawk and others got great results with Kiwi-Grip, and I'm leaning in that direction myself. I have enough damaged areas of my non-skid and I want to change the color so I think Kiwi-grip in grey is in my future plans.

jmczzz said:
Thanks Hawk, for your previous mesg and this. Yikes! you made me think... I am 29 years older than my boat. I hope we both can put in 10 or 12 more before Valhala... I gotta make that Keys and Great Loop cruise...

I apreciate all you guys giving me guidance. I feel more confident I can do the job now.
BTW what epoxy, and hardner do I use? Is it one of the West system products?
next question: do I mask off the area where non skid goes and just leave it with primer only or go ahead and paint it too then put the non skid over that?
James

CloudDiver · Apr 8, 2015

If pic #1 is what I 'think' I am looking at, your keel hangers were installed upside down. It looks from the pics like you have the old style hangers, you may want to consider new ones from Catalina Direct which will help take the slop out of your keel.
Yes, they are only 5/16 bolts but those are correct. You'd be surprised how strong they are, but just looking at them most people agree they seem small for the task. Anyway, when properly installed they have been holding up swing keels on Cat 22's for 40 years so they are proven to do the job.

Your Keel looks like it is excellent condition. Hopefully there are no big voids that are covered by paint and filler that you can't see. I would't waste your time with grinding and sanding, just take it out and have it professionally sand blasted for about $80 to $100. This saves you time and a big headache, then gives you cleanest substrate to apply an epoxy barrier coat. If you are lucky and don't find any major holes/voids you will need very little epoxy fairing compound.

My keel pin was stuck fast too (rust from the keel). I tried a few bangs with a hammer and it didn't budge. I thought hammering it too hard would crack the cast iron so I ended up drilling it out. Your Liquid Wrench soaking may loosen it up, but the drawback is that your cast iron might soak it up. Avoid exposing the keel to any kind of greases or oils.

hawk232 · Apr 8, 2015

as usual, my opinion differs from the majority... your keel looks pretty awesome compared to most! unless you are planning to keep the boat for a REALLY long time I think I would just stick it back in there as is. most people seem to get blasting for ~$100, mine was $240. it takes a TON of filler to get it back in shape, figure at least a gallon of epoxy, then you have to barrier coat and paint it!

DavidGC · Apr 9, 2015

I'm with hawk -- that keel looks in amazingly good shape. Unless there is some major issue that we are not seeing in the photos, I'd put it back just the way it is.

hawk232 · Apr 9, 2015

jmczzz said:
Thanks Hawk, our minds tend to run along the same tracks. I wonder if I could just clean off the spots of chipped paint and barnacles and repaint, replace the pin, refit w/ new hangers and fit the CD shim centering kit. It does have some rough spots and wouldn't win many races or beauty pageants. But those aren't my goals. My only concern would be can we make the keys next fall / winter then around the great loop the next year will we (the keel and I) last that long? What about some epoxy & filler over the existing paint to smooth out the worst spots? Will it stick? Anyway I want to focus on deck strength, reseal, & paint, sailing rig strength, sailability, ground tackle, and reasonable live aboard accommodations. I don't want to cut corners on safety or serviceability, but don't want or need a "cocktail at the club” boat. We’ve done that on our prior H-30. I do want her to look nice (for the mate), but none of the three of us is ever gonna be (or look) new again. Keeping my personal goals in mind my priorities may be different than you next generation young Turks as well as the C-22 old hands. I do appreciate all you guys input and value your opinions and judgment. Only a fool would ignore wise council. (I’m not the government).
Thank you, Cloud and David.
James

hmmm any closer pics of the keel? the presence of rust MIGHT change the deal... if it were me, I would grind down some of the rusted areas and see if the rust is spread out underneath the paint. common myth is that it will be but that was not the case on my boat. I went for the myth and removed all of the old filler and found the only rust was where there was rust showing prior. would have saved ALOT of time and money by just grinding those areas out and touching up from there. if you find that the rust extends beyond the point of exposure then you have to decide if you want to go through the rebuild process or just limp it along. the pin hole and the eye bolt are the only things that would affect the integrity. ANY other rust is just cosmetic at this point...

will the boat live on a trailer or in the water? if on a trailer I would lean to leaving it, if in water (especially saltwater) I would more strongly consider sealing it up as tight as possible

Need help with refinishing deck plan

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