Need advice on how crazy this idea is..... steel boat, unfinished.... MAJOR PROJECT

rgranger · Apr 17, 2020

hahahaha

Okay... I've actually looked at that same boat about 6 years ago.

First question...Yes.... you are crazy.... but maybe just crazy enough.

But if you decide to do it, I have a bunch of boat fixing and building books I could lend you and I have a book of Robert's designs.

But you will have to get it from NC to WI? It would cost as much to move it and then finish it and rig it and put a motor in it, and buy electronics etc. than to simply buy one already to sail and well equipped.

Go to sailboatlistings.com and do a search on 40-50' boats under $50,000. You will find a bunch that have over $50K of stuff already on them. You can basically get a boat today for the cost of the gear.

I got my eye on two right now...

sail sfbay · Apr 17, 2020

I have considered it but instead have always purchased sail and power boats that were sound and but required replacing older, failed or tired components. I find that gratifying and I can use the boat while I am working on it. Sounds like you understand the risk and have the time and $$$ so go for it!!

PaulK · Apr 17, 2020

Well...lead is going for about 35 cents/pound... 6000 pounds... with the winches and engine...could be worth $8K. The seller is right about the deck needing repairs, reblasting and repainting however, and everything below decks needs to be built. Do you have $100K to finish the interior? Or the skills and years of time to do it yourself? Plus it has to be moved practically immediately - which might cost more than the boat itself. Luckily the mast, rigging and sails are included...maybe mostly. That alone could easily cost more than $20K. And when you’re done in xx years, you have... a Bruce Roberts Maritius 44. There do seem to be some of them around in various places, in various stages of completion. If you have the money, your time might be better spent sailing. If you don’t have the cash but do have the time, it could be a good way to break up a marriage or family. You pick! The seller, by his pricing, is letting you know how it has worked out for him and what his choice is.

dlochner · Apr 17, 2020

Have you ever talked to someone who is sailing his/her second steel boat?

Probably not, as once you own a steel boat you never buy a second one.

At the moment I am involved in a steel boat restoration project. Mind you it is not my boat, rather it belongs to museum which acquired it after it took ~25 years of volunteer work to get the hull finished with no interior. We are in the process of hiring a Naval Architect to help with the completion. Currently we are estimating about $250K to finish the boat. The boat is a little larger, about 65 feet and is a schooner.

One of the big issues we found was the volunteer labor was not all that "boat aware" and made lots of mistakes in the construction. Including having to take all the hull plating off and putting on new plating. What little wiring there is has to be completely replaced and wired correctly, not like a car.

If you should consider this boat, all the welds should be carefully inspected and the plating tested to make sure it is up to spec. Hidden rust can be an issue.

We plan on having our schooner USCG inspected for passengers and eventually an Adventure Sailing Program for adolescents. If anyone would like more information on our program, PM me.

Jim26m · Apr 17, 2020

I can weld, own a welder, have a wood shop, a sand blaster; and this project is daunting. As said above, if you have a pile of cash and want to create a personalized boat, this is an opportunity. But, it will not be quick or cheap.

I would have to do a detailed inspection of it before I would even consider it. Photos may be deceiving. Text says it was professionally done, and photos generally look like the lines are right; but it could be a mess. Bad welds, poor structural attachments, etc, don't show up in these photos. The text indicates that some sections may need to be cut out and replaced. So, they are admitting severe damage in some areas. Not keen that it has been foamed inside either.

You are likely looking at years to get this boat in the water, in sailing condition.

Do you have jobs, or are you retired? If you are still working, this will eat all of your free time.

If you guys really enjoy protracted challenging projects, go take a look at it and size it up. If you just want a bigger boat to go sailing in, don't give this one a second thought. That boat would not be a deal if it was free.

nightowle · Apr 17, 2020

I've been involved in the sale of a steel BR recently. This type of boat requires a seriously knowledgeable person to handle the rebuild. First and foremost is ultrasonic testing of the steel for thickness and decomposition. Without that starting point, all this is moot. Are you opposed to a BR made of fiberglass? There's one in Seattle in sail away condition right now. The owner would like it gone, so it will likely sell for under asking in our current economic environment. It's Swedish yard built to ABYC recommendations. Overall, you'll spend way more than the 40k+ asking price than the one you're currently looking at.

capta · Apr 17, 2020

I have known a few people over the years who prefer to work on boats than sail them. Several have been absolutely gorgeous, but after finishing them the builder goes for one or two sails and then puts them on the market and starts all over again.
I've also seen project boats like this go through a half a dozen 'dreamer' owners with the last one, who probably got it for free, on the hook to find a way to dispose of it, because by then it was only a dream, and not practical to actually continue the project.
Someone posted they'd seen this boat for sale six years ago. Do you imagine it has gotten better over those six years of sitting?
But, it is your choice. Would you rather pick up a bit more expensive boat up front, or pick up this one, or one like it, and spend years and beaucoup bucks fixing a boat up, without sailing it once?

Will Gilmore · Apr 17, 2020

It boggles the brain that the owner is calling it a boat.

I love it.

That said, I wouldn't count on the "new, in bag" sails to still be in great shape. Mice, mold, age will destroy that stuff without the owner being aware anything is wrong. Have a close look at everything.

I appreciate the desire to build your boat. Maybe it's a decent deal, maybe you buy it to re-sell for salvage and start a fresh project. Either way, I'm a fan of steel and I want to follow along.

Thanks for posting.

-Will (Dragonfly)

dLj · Apr 17, 2020

I love steel hull boats. I would not buy this boat. You can buy steel hull boats that are either ready to go sail or at least much closer to go sail for a fraction of the cost it will take you to get this one going. I would be quite leary of the poor top of that boat. It does not make sense to me that it's got so much damage. That implies to me they did not use the correct painting system initially and I'm afraid you'd really need to sandblast that whole boat and re-coat it. Since that is what the outside is like, confidence is low for the inside work also. A foamed interior with the exterior looking like that would make me walk in a heartbeat. To have confidence in that boat I'd have to strip it to bare metal inside and out. You couldn't give me that boat for free. If I had a different hull that all the parts fit on, I might buy everything for the parts, then scrap that hull and get scrap metal price for it. But that would be a lot of stars aligning for that to be worthwhile. Just my 2 cents worth.

dj

markwbird · Apr 17, 2020

Don't do it. Unless you are a professional boat builder and retired it will take years. Also, in the end, it will cost you more than just buying a nice used boat that is ready to go. AND, what if the boat is a piece of crap in the end? It 's too big anyway.

bawlmer · Apr 17, 2020

I think this is a really bad idea. And I rarely comment on these types of posts.

jon hansen · Apr 17, 2020

well, like capta says it takes all kinds. when the yard i'm at was still the PJ's service yard. there was a 1948 S&S racer, wood, built by PJ's. sprit, boomkin, double head sail. tall rig yawl, hugely overpowered. in rough shape. this guy buys her and does a full restoration. he showed up in a private Provos bus with his porsche on a tow bar behind it. his BMW cycle was in the belly of the bus. he plugged into a dock post and lived at the yard. he watched as the yard did a full on restoration to this beautiful thoroughbred. while there he bought the aluminum PJ racer Love Machine, 39' that was in a famous photo 40 years ago of taking a full knockdown during a race as a breaking wave rolled the entire vessel. helicopter shot. i asked him (we had become yard buddies) what was he going to do with 'love machine' and he replied that his ex-wife, girlfriend, and son were going to race it that season in the chicago scene. (that's cozy i thought). well, they fixed ribs, planks, hardware, brightwork, canvas decks, .... everything. new sails too. after 7 months with a good crew working she was ready. he and a yard crew sailed her down to the end of the bay and back, prolly a total of eight miles, and when back at the dock he told the yard to sell her. he unplugged his bus and left. never saw him again. never got his name. the boat is still in town. a master sailor bought her on the cheap. fast boat. beautiful boat. 30 years have gone by. it's time to restore her again. some people just like the project

NOT ME, i like sailing and am only willing to do what it takes to do more sailing. aeolus is in killer shape. and so it goes

DArcy · Apr 17, 2020

I wouldn't jump right in and say no. Sure the deck is pretty sketchy but the hull may be sound. There is likely a lot of welding to do so if you either know a guy that will do it for cheap or are willing to weld it yourself it might work. If you are planning on doing the work yourself you can get a pretty good idea of what will be required by looking at the Hunter 40 repair thread. That thread has been going on for over 3 years and he still has some work to do before it's ready to launch. That is about as fast as you will be able to finish the boat working nights and weekends.
A bunch of people have said it will be cheaper to buy a finished boat, and normally that is good advice, but this boat has a very full inventory of parts so $8k is a great deal IF the parts are still sound. The demolished storage shed may mean the parts are no longer usable.
As a sailing friend told me, if you love the boat it may be worth it. If you don't, ~~walk~~ run away. Just make sure all those parts and the hull are sound.

Mr. Dave · Apr 17, 2020

Dude! What the **** are you waiting for? Buy the boat and all the fixings, 8k is a bargain! Move it a few miles to some farm near a southern river, rent the barn from the out of work farmer, seek his advice and share your whiskey, set up shop, and throw yourself wholeheartedly into the project. 100k to outfit the interior?!? That's ****ing daft! Functional and comfortable is a low bar, and that doesn't have to be expensive. It's a sailboat, it's an adventure, and it's a ****load better than a wooden boat! And, if you die of the covid-19, you'll regret at your last breath that you were too chicken to do something ****ing cool! And don't listen to those stupid sons of ******* telling you to play it safe...

dlochner · Apr 17, 2020

Mr. Dave said:
Dude! What the **** are you waiting for? Buy the boat and all the fixings, 8k is a bargain! Move it a few miles to some farm near a southern river, rent the barn from the out of work farmer, seek his advice and share your whiskey, set up shop, and throw yourself wholeheartedly into the project. 100k to outfit the interior?!? That's ****ing daft! Functional and comfortable is a goddamn low bar, and that doesn't have to be expensive. It's a sailboat, it's an adventure, and it's a ****load better than a wooden boat! And, if you die of the covid-19, you'll regret at your last breath that you were too chicken to do something ****ing cool! And don't listen to those stupid sons of b****es telling you to play it safe...

If it is such a good idea, why don't you jump on it?

You're kind of new here, so maybe we can give you a pass on the insulting language. This isn't Sailing Anarchy.

Many of the folks responding to the OP have decades of experience in and around boats. Could you enlighten us a bit about your experience with boats and especially steel project boats?

Jim26m · Apr 17, 2020

sbcwolff said:
Thanks for all the replies folks. I think I'm just attracted to the steel haul, since I've seen what fiberglass looks like after even "minor" trauma.... I'll keep looking and dreaming. We are still at least 3 to 5 years out from hopefully making the jump to cruising (keeping busy on a 17 acre hobby farm and weekend sailing on the river for now...)
I'll be sure to continue to "vet" my crazy ideas through SBO before I drive across country to buy my next dream boat

Your original post said you knew it would take years and tens of thousands of dollars. Then asked if the SBO group thought you were crazy for considering the purchase of a 40 ft steel boat project.

What you haven't divulged is your skill set, and financial capability (budget) to deal with such a project. With the very limited information we had (you own a Mac 26s and live in WI), a project of this magnitude does seem a bit crazy.

As several of us indicated, there are folks who find value in a project, sometimes at least equal to sailing. @DArcy referenced the 40 ft Hunter repair that is being well documented by @B757Captain. Read the posts where he was documenting the damage. Many told him that it would be financially better, and more expedient to get another boat. He was well aware of those facts. He has the skills and determination to pull off the rebuild, and is building exactly what he wants in the process. In other words, the project itself had value to him in the building of his exact wants.

If you have the skills, budget, and resolve to rebuild a 40 ft steel boat, as I posted, go look it over carefully; inventory the parts; hire a surveyor (if it passes your inspection); get bids on the work you can't do; and THEN, decide if you want to do it.

I can promise you this. If you make an informed decision to go for it, we will ALL be rooting for you to succeed. And we will be anxiously awaiting your every post of progress.

Nobody is trying to crush your dreams. We just don't want to watch you walk off a cliff.

Will Gilmore · Apr 29, 2020

Exciting!
Looking forward to more posts, and pictures, for sure.

-Will (Dragonfly)