Nav Lights Mental Babble... *o

[Rick D]

I have long been a little annoyed at the amps consumed by my nav lights on overnighters. During one long offshore voyage, I was happy the boat we were on had a masthead nav light. It made me sleep easier knowing it was more likely we'd be seen by ships and by other boats when we were in large swells. Anyhow, I am getting a rigging survey since the boat is twelve years old. There is an LED masthead light / anchor that weighs in at 18 oz which can replace my anchor light using a reversing polarity switch and this would be a good time to install it. Soooo I was all set to order it ($280 with mount) when I had a brain-check. Last year, in the second night of a race, I was startled to see a boat off my starboard without lights. It was a dark night, so he was *this* close before I saw him. Fortunately, it was very light conditions. Anyhow, he did have his nav lights on, but they were on his masthead, and we just didn't see it because we were't looking up. We had seen him long before, but he had tacked and we lost him. Since that is a more likely senario, I am thinking instead of just replacing the bulbs with the LED ones sold on this site ($150-ish for three). What do you think of this decision? Don't tell me to order both... I'm a tad cheap for that. Rick D.

 

[duality]

i replaced my bulbs with led.......

but not with coast guard approved lights, i bought automobile bulbs since i figured that the incadescent bulbs were the same as automobile. i bought them on ebay for about 4 to 5 bucks each, (some were bayonet style) i took some flak here last year about it but since the fixture is cg approved i figured that the lens would diffuse the light to meet their requirements, i still think that i meet the requirements and am happy that i changed them. (do alot of night sailing (in the summmer)and havent been hit yet)mike

 

[Dan Johnson]

Rick...

Back here in the east on the Chesapeake Bay, hardly anyone uses a masthead tricolor. Big waves are only 4 footers. Nobody looks up, especially on the go-fast boats that seem to think they can run as fast after dark as in daylight. I would opt for the biggest and brighest deck level running lights that LED's can provide for the safety factor alone. Especially if you do a lot of night sailing (I don't anymore).

 

[Colin16557]

Red over green: Saiing Machine!

I've thought about this problem of being seen by nearby boats vs larger vessels and it seem like the answer is in the COLREGS: At least for those of use under 65-feet, sailboats may use the deck-level running lights in combination with red over green all-around lights on top of the mast. This would seem to have the best of both worlds except that, since you have to have something like a meter of vertical seperation between the two all around lights you obviously can't do it with a single light source. So now, everybody can see you, but you've got 4 or 5 bulbs lit, which is why nobody actually does this.Now, with good LED nav lights becoming available, it begins to make be much more reasonably to think about the red-over-green-plus-running-lights approach. In fact, I think I saw some 180-degree LED navlights specifically designed to be mounted on the mast (mount a pair on opposite sides of the mast to get an all-around). This obviously isn't the low-cost route (4 180's, two red and two green, plus converting port, starboard, and stern lights to LED's) but it addresses the near/far issue and keeps you on the right side of the regs.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Flack

Do yourself a favor and do a some research on LED's vs incandescent bulbs.Incandescent bulbs radiate 360 deg from the filament. LED's radiate about 30 deg. Thus you need an array of 9 LED's to get 360 deg of light.Sailboat running lights (Navigation Lights are found on Navigation Aids not boats) must be visible for their rated distance when the boat is heeled. This is one reason that Perko and Hella have LED Sidelights and Stern Lights for power boats but not for sail boats.Aqua Signal has a range of LED running lights that are approved, but they are a completely different fixture. They are NOT the old fixtures with LED "bulbs". If an LED replacement for the festoon bulb in an Aqua Signal fixture was available, wouldn't make sense for AS to sell them? Why would they go to the expense to design whole new units if a LED would work?Another thing about LED's and amperage draw. The LED's in an array are usually wired in series, they must be matched if the fixture is to perform properly. LED's are also amperage sensitive and they require a regulated power supply to operate as designed. Cheap (not inexpensive ... Cheap) LED replacements for automotive bayonet bulbs use LED's in series and a resistor. A marine LED must operate over a wide voltage range so the array will operate as designed when the power supply goes from 13-14 volts under power to 11-12 volts when sailing.Matching the LED's in each array and including a voltage regulator costs money. If you look at the Approved Lights from Orca Green and Lopolight you will find that they include the proper circuitry.Bebi Electronics http://www.bebi-electronics.com/index.html Has several pages that go into detail about LED's and the problems that LED's have getting approved for marine use (Their lights are NOT approved). If everything on my boat was as well thought out as Bebi lights, it would be wonderful. Unfortunately, they are not certified, so I can't sell them to customers, but there is nothing keeping anyone from using them on their own boat.

 

[Rick D]

Hey, Moody, Some Feedback, Please...

...these ARE USCG approved, and arrayed for replacement and have the proper voltage range, at least according to the spec's. So... what am I missing??? If I am, please let me know before I run off the end of the dock.... BTW, Phil thought they were USCG approved when he first began to market them. They were not, but got the certification soon later, as I recall. So, again, where is the downside. 6-7 amps/hour for 12 hours vs. .05 amps / hour for three. That's a big diference, no? Rick D.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Fine Print

"Dr. LED™ Introduces its Low Current (0.09A) 2nm Certified After-Market LEDReplacement Bulb for Aqua Signal series 40 Anchor Light.The New and Only 2nm Certified After-Market LED Replacement Bulb for Aqua Signal andOther Anchor Lights from Dr. LED Reduces Power Drain for Boats at AnchorSeattle, Washington, December 18, 2006 – Dr. LED today announced that it’s WhitePolar Star 40TM after-market replacement LED light bulb for the Aqua Signal series 40anchor light has been certified by a U.S. Coast Guard (USCG) listed independentlaboratory to be compliant with the USCG COLREG 1972 (International MaritimeOrganization, “IMO”) standards and verify conformance with the navigation lightregulations of ABYC A-16. This is the only after-market navigation replacement lightbulb that has received such certification.This is the first of a series of certifications for its Polar Star 40™"Notice that the replacement is only certified in an Aqua Signal Series 40 Anchor Light.It *MAY* pass certification in other Series 40 Aqua Signal fixtures ... but it has not been certified yet. BTW- Series 40 are usually found on 40-65 ft boats. 2nm sidelights and 3nm stern light.

 

[Rick D]

Good Point, Moody

I guess I just read right over it. I thought the red and green LED's for 40 series (in my case Hella) were also certified. Thanks for adding another variable to my decision . Aw, heck, for about 6 amps overnight vs. 70+, it seems to be worth the PITA value. Thanks for the feedback. Good research and reporting. Rick D.PS: if you were me, would you buy standing rigging from SECOSOUTH (OEM for Hunter) or trust a local rigger to make it up (understanding that I have no way to know the origin of the cable nor the swaging expertise)?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Many do install BOTH

but there was this brain-dead idiot in a next door marina with a beautiful Pacific Seacraft 37 and one day was hanging out after dark with both his deck level AND top of the mast running lights lit at the same time!Use the deck level near harbors and use the top of the mast offshore.

 

[Rick D]

Stu, You Are Right, Of Course.

I just have a hard time justifying a masthead when i think the larger danger is close-in work at night between recreational and smaller commercial craft for 95% of my sailing. When alone and way offshore, I do have my radar. Still, it would be a must-have for a long offshore passage. Rick D.

 

[jimq26]

Turn masthead running lights off when motoring.

When under power, a sailboat must show its steaming light and deck level running navigation lights. A masthead tricolour must not be on when under power.

 

[Rick D]

Yes, and it is really annoying...

...when people motor with a masthead, and even more so when they motor or sail with the anchor light on! That's a nasty habit of racers so they can see the masthead fly. RD

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Aqua Signal 32's

Just in case people think I'm anti-LED ...I like LED'S! I'm putting an Orca Green Tri-Colour/Anchor on the mast when it goes back in the boat.If you have an older boat and the running lights are 20-30 years old, I would seriously consider The Aqua Signal Series 32 LED's as replacements. One of the ORC (Offshore Racing Council) rules that makes great sense is requiring running lights to be at the level of the upper lifeline or higher. Getting those old Perko's off the deck or out of the sides of the anchor locker is a good upgrade.LED cabin lighting is a great power saver too.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Confusing lights on passengers ships maybe

but the working stiffs usually have it right. You need to check the lighting patterns for other vessels, look 'em up in a book.

 

[Hunter voyager]

strobe

I'm thinking of fitting a strobe light somewhere on the boat to make me more visible. ( perhaps at the mast head ? )I will also use the nav lights which I think is OK providing the strobe doesn't obscure the nav light.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Strobe:

From the USCG:"Can I use Strobe Lights to be more visible at night? For any other lights beyond those specifically defined within the Navigation Rules they should be such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules, or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out (Rule 20). Displaying a strobe for “higher visibility” would confuse other vessels as to your navigational status (many aids to navigation use a strobe or flashing). Also, lights provide direction and aspect information to other boat operators. For example, if while operating my vessel I see a red light on my starboard side I know I am the give-way vessel (Rule 16, 17). The use of a strobe light could overwhelm a vessel’s navigation lights and cease to provide such crucial direction and aspect information to other boat operators. Also, Rule 36 of the International Rules addresses signals to attract attention and for the purpose of [that] rule the use of high intensity intermittent or revolving lights, such as strobe lights, shall be avoided.Rule 37 of the Inland Rules addresses strobes in regards to distress signals so that when a vessel is in distress and requires assistance she shall use…a high intensity white light flashing at regular intervals from 50 to 70 times per minute. Since strobe light use is to be avoided (International waters) or used as a distress signal (Inland waters), it cannot be used to routinely mark vessels operating on the water."http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules_faq.htm#0.3_13

 

[Hunter voyager]

Flashing Light

Thanks. should have said a flashing light not strobe. And not at 60 flashes per minute.any problems?

 

[Les]

A quick flashing yellow light is for one boat.....

Here is sorta a trick question (had it on my Coast Guard exam). What does a quick flashing yellow light mean in the water? It means a submarine is coming to the surface. And subs have running lights when on surface and sometimes a steaming light but never lights at either end. I've watch them come into the Strait of Juan de Fuca on two occastions. Very impressive.

 

[Red]

Les, No lights? Sink it...

...then report you sighted and sunk a terrorist attempting to sneak in with no running lights. If the Department of Homeland Insecurity people want to keep spreading FUD it is only fair we fulfill their dreams.Rick, just installing LED "replacement bulbs" may leave you with running lights that are illegal since the entire FIXTURE must be USCG approved, and that approval is based on the correct bulb type installed in it. There's quite a variety of LED masthead and running lights available now, some use many more bulbs and have a much wider beam spread than others, even among the USCG approved ones. And of course some are most miserly with power. With those prices, I'd want a good warranty and I'd still be worried that having just one LED, no matter how good it is, means just one failure and I've got an expensive replacement to make. I'd be happier with an array of LEDs in it so one could fail and be ignored. What you say about masthead lights being unseen up close is true, if you will be in close quarters it pays to have a second set of auxiliary lights or some deck lighting that is visible from close in, when the mastheads are unseen.

 

[sand sailor]

OK what about spreader tip lites

can you advise or point to some good ones 1-1/4"