My Boat Sunk!!

[Don Bodemann]

Lock the swing keel?

If I picture my typical swing keel like a C-22, and the boat gets knocked down. Now the mast is horizontal as well as the keel. Only after the boat turtles will there be any gravity force pulling the keel down into the boat. These keels are not mounted in ball bearings but rather a large, crude, pin. I would guess the mast would have to be pointing down into the water approx 20 degrees or more before the keel would start to retract...and at this poin t you're in deep **+^! anyway. We could ask Mr. Butler why there is no lock on the C-25? From my discussions on the C-22 e-mail list, there are as many lockers as non lockers. Many times sailors have tryed to retract the keel forgeting they had locked it. Again, this can and will cause a nasty leak. there are many C-22s with the lock removed and glassed over for this very reason. So should you lock? After all, why did they put that thing on the boat if you shouldn't use it.The choice is yours!

 

[Tom]

Jerome, i have one more thing you could have tried

in this situation.....Obviuosly 1) Reduce canvas “REEF” sooner. But that has to be done BEFORE the gust sneeks up on you instantly. The second thing (as someone mentioned) is 2.Be ready to dump the main sheet (and possibly jib sheet) in gusty conditions ----- yeah, it'll create a racket and possibly rip your sails, but its better than your boat going over..right!?But the third thing (that I think no one really mentioned) is when the "big gust" hits don't try and fight the helm and keep you course, but rather turn your boat Dead-Down-Wind (That is of course if you have sea room to do so). When a big Gust comes along most skippers tend to try and fight the helm and keep your course or possibly head up. But all that will cause if the winds are high enough is to make your boat start to broach . (I think thats what happened to you).This happens even to better skippers, I was on the Around Block Island race this memorial day and the exact same thing happened, but we were a 37' boat with our spinakker up when a huge gust of wind came up on us (The same race a well known and run boat lost thier Skipper Jimmy Boeckal SP?). The person at the helm tried to fight the helm and keep a straight course (which was a mistake) and boom, the boat started to broach and the owner almost went flying over the side towards the bow (thank god for the netting up there). All I really remember is standing straight up on the Port side hugging the midship wench with my toes in the water but still on the toe rail....Bascially, this big boat had its mast in the water, something I won't forget......After this experience and everything was cleaned up we all agreed, the person at the helm should have instantly headed downwind (if he had sea room, which he did) and while he was doing it the boat would have been more stable, the apparent wind would have been reduce (by 7-9 knots!) and the sails might be a bit more blanketed and we would have tried to reduce sail.So if it ever happens to you again, try *instantly* heading downwind.......even your relatively small boat would less likely go over.

 

[Dan]

Dead down wind?

Hmmm...not so sure I would go for that option.Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)

 

[Tom]

Dan why not ?

Just temporarily turning your boat DDW (Dead Down Wind) for a moment can do wonders when your boats going over like that. It gives you a moment to recover the boat and if the winds keep going you have a better apparant wind. If the winds steadily increase and stay strong for too long then this might not be the best. In that case the best is reducing sail. I recall the same thing happening to my old 11,000 lb 27 footer, if I was doing something stupid and had too much sail up and was hard on the breeze, it was amazing how the boat would just "pop-up" and level off when I turned the boat DDW. As you go from a hard on the wind, to beam reach to broad reach to down wind, you can actually feel the boat coming back up to level, Obviously you must keep letting out your sheets, and you don't want to go to far and have an accidental jybe. Maybe instead of DDW, maybe just on a very broad reach.Obviously this can't be done in a narrow channel or near hazards, but if you have the room I think it works well.Any other skippers out there have experiences with using this technique with sudden gusts and having too much sail up.

 

[Shane]

Down Wind?

When a big gust hits me in My C-15 it trys to round me up. If it does that It luffs my sails. I figure if the boat wants to do that it is okay with me... no accidental jibe or knockdown. Am I doing something wrong?Shane.

 

[Roland]

My Boat Sank

The solution is simple....when a strong and overpowering gust of wind hits your boat from the side, you simply release the main sheet partially or completely depending on the strength of the gust. You may want to check the length of your main sheet to make sure that it is long enough to allow the main sail to swing around and position itself parallel to the gust of wind. When I sail a small boat such as yours or say an 18-20 foot Hobbie Cat, I always have the main sheet in one hand and the rudder control in the other hand. A Hobbie Cat is very light and easy to capsize with a strong wind, which is why I am always ready to relieve tension in the main sheet.

 

[Roland]

Proper response to an over-powering wind gust

By the way, turning downwind is definitely NOT the solution. Believe me, in a strong or over-powering gust of wind, you do not have time to turn the boat from a perpendicular position relative to the wind to a parallel position. Besides, depending on the actual angle of the wind relative to the main sail, i.e. if the wind is anywhere between 0 to 90 degrees from the bow, turning the boat away from the wind would actually worsen the situation by presenting more sail area to the wind. The quickest and most effective way to avoid this situation is to completely release all tension on the main sheet (i.e. dump the sails as others have mentioned). Which is why on a small craft such as this when sailing in strong winds you should always have the main sheet in one hand and the rudder in the other. This will allow you to instantly react and release the main while maintaining control of the boat direction with the other hand. May I suggest that you consider practicing these skills on a Hobbie Cat (small catamaran). This little boat will allow you to fine tune these skills to the point where you will be able to sail on one pontoon while the other is up in the air. You learn to master the balance between the two main forces affected by rudder control and main sail trim.

 

[Tom]

Yes Roland you & all others are correct

I mis-stated my solution. If you just turned downwind without easing out the sheets you are most probably making things worse. I automatically release the sheets without thinking when going down wind, I guess that is not inherently obvious. Thanks for pointing that out.But most would admit if all you did was release the sheets without changing your course in a heavy wind they will be making a *huge* racket and potentially ripping the sails and knotting the sheets...... So I guess let the sheets out AND THEN if you have to or you can do it, turn your boat down wind a bit to keep your sheets from ripping up. Or take the time (if you can) to reef them in.and....practice....practice....practice....until your boat feels like an extension of yourself.

 

[Don Bodemann]

weather helm Shane

Hey Shane,No you're doing fine. A boat's tendency to round up when over powered is called weather helm. I think all sloops have it to a certain degree. A little can be a good thing. Too much is a pain because the boat is going out of control prematurely. A broach or knock down happens when the sudden strong wind pushes the boat over before it has a chance to round up. When you find your boat rounding up frequently on a sail, it is a strong indication that you should have already reefed (shorten sails). Sometimes when trying to get the most speed from a boat we will leave as much canvas up as possible when in reality, the boat may actually sail faster with less canvas and the boat heeled less. Usually makes for a more pleasant ride also.

 

[Bob]

Conditions and Judgement

Any time you skipper a boat on which others are passengers or crew, their lives are in your hands and thus at the mercy of your experience, intelligence, and judgement. Reflecting on your harrowing ordeal, I wonder how you'd respond to the following questions:1. Was the boat too far offshore for conditions that day? Wave height, current, wind speed, time of day, and skipper's ability to deal with these all enter into how to calculate this answer.2. Did you experience strong puffs previous to the knockdown? If so, did you instruct crew on appropriate seating and weight distribution? It sounds to me as if most of the crew were on the lee side.3. Did you consider reefing?4. Why were not at least some PFDs in the cockpit? 3 miles offshore in a 20 footer means this is automatic.5. Was the mainsheet cleated down, difficult to get at, fouled, or tangled? Many a small boat has dipped her mast in the water because the skipper tried to dump the main only to have the sheet hang up.6. Were hatchboards in and locked, were lazarette covers latched? Again, 3 miles out in a 20 footer would strongly recommend this precaution. Though I know that most of these points have been raised by other respondents, my message is that if these questions did not occur to you at the time, you were "over your head" in that situation. We've all been there, and learned some of what we know the hard way. Next time you will be more cautious, and thus a better skipper.

 

[Tom]

Bob from Mt Lake VA. Good solid points...

(nm)

 

[Rick Webb]

I Would Say Jerome Did Good

While the conventional wisdom is to stay with the boat the fact that the crew had not been rescued when Jerome returned with help does not support the convention in this case. If another boat had not come by in five hours how long might it have been? There are many cases where the one swimming for help is the fatality while the waiting to be rescued crew is picked up shortly after the soon to be dead swimmer has gone for help. All Jerome lost was his rudder, tiller and sails. His crew, boat and he are all still with us today because of his heroic swim. There is a fine fuzzy line between bravery and stupidity but Jerome has been chastised enough already. It took some really big balls to post what had happened I commend Jerome for that. The only question I have is would it have been possible to dive for the PFDs?

 

[JD]

Jack Aubrey would have been awed!

There but for the grace of God go I!! Good of you to fess up amidst the cascade of criticism--it brings out a lot of good lessons learned. I'm a helicopter pilot by trade and a novice sailor. As a commander of a squadron I cherished those lads that had "close calls"--they became the most valuable learning tool for everyone else and their experience was invaluable. As far as the swim goes I think you were incredibly lucky--But I'd rather be lucky than good any day. I wouldn't advocate that swim again--the lucky charm, the angel on your shoulder, God might be otherwise engaged the next time. I'd say go sailing--you'll be a much better sailor because of your experience--pass it on.

 

[Brad]

Did you release the sheets?

I haven't heard the begging question.....but it sounds like you never released the sheets. If not, with water covering those sails you don't have a prayer of self righting. And then it becomes that vicious cycle....boat takes water then it's too late.It's kinda like "last man out, release the sheet" Or, swim around and do it before the boat takes on so much water.I suspect you won't leave the pfds out of reach again, so I won't chastize. Read the end of the book "message in a bottle" (movie ends differently). The hero makes the sad realization that his pfd is out of reach much like you did just before he starts that hopeless swim towards shore. Brad on the Willy T

 

[Paul Green]

Stranger things have happened

I had my 42 footer sink out from under me in a matter of minutes after side swiping one of three very large and long break waters at night.I had been boating in This harbour for 15 years.Did I have radar? Yep. Was it on? Nope. Loran?Off. Intoxicated? No way. Inclement weather? Sorry. Excuses? Not one worth my boat. Pfd's you ask? Burried in lazzerate as I'm sure a lot of other complacent boaters keep theirs. (be honest now) Shit happens and it happens fast and allways when you least expect it and unexplicably at the worst time possible.In emergency situations we make decisions without having the bennifit of arm chair hind sight. I for one, can see the (My boat sunk) senario with no problem at all.One more side note THREE CHEERS FOR USCG STATION NEW HAVEN, GROUP LONG ISLAND SOUND. The boat crew working on my night of nights were EXCEPTIONAL.Let's start the New Year a bit more open minded and hopefully we'll learn from all this.Have a great 2003 all!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Right compas heading

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

Question for Paul

Thanks for telling us about an incident that must be little fun re-calling. This nightmare scenario could happen to all of us. Therefore, I would like just a bit more info (in order to learn more from it myself; not to try and be a Monday morning quarterback).Did the hull itself get holed or did you pop one or more thru-hulls?What kind of 42-foot vessel was this?Thanks again.Flying Dutchman

 

[Bob]

Arm Chair Quarterbacks

There is a difference between being a Monday morning armchair QB and commenting rationally on well-recognised safety procedures. ANY time you are on the water there should be a PFD on you or in the cockpit. Sure, they can get in the way, they are hard to dig out of the lazarette, etc. Wonder how valid those excuses sound when you are in the water and the boat is going down. We've all done dumb things on the water, and if we were lucky we didn't get hurt or dead, only scared. But a wise man learns from the mistakes of others, and there is plenty of info out there available about proper procedures. After a December swim in COLD lake water some years ago, you can believe I check frequently to see that sheets are not fouled when the wind is up. I no longer try to singlehand a spinnaker (small boat) when the wind is over 10 kts after a windshift-caused backwinded main and boom whacked me in the chest, etc., etc. It's not about being critical, it's about using good judgement, and the more I sail, the more conservative I get when safety is involved. It might not be quite as exciting, but those on board have a little higher probability of getting back in one piece.

 

[Dave]

PFD System

One of the requirements on commercial vessels which I think should be mandatory on pleasure craft is that PFD's must be stored in a locker with a lid that will float open in case of a sinking and release the PFD's. They may be floating around randomly but at least they are available to people thrown in the water to grab. Having mandatory PFD's on board in an inaccessible location doesn't help much in an emergency. Dave

 

[Lamar]

wear pfd, it's sails very fast if floating...

We dumped a Nacra Catamaran in a downbrust. I had my pfd on. My buddy Mike had his laying on the trampoline. The wind went from 10 to 25 knots instantly. Every sailboat on the river was one it's side. Mike almost couldn't catch up with his pfd, as it was sailing away as fast as he could swim. (it takes a few seconds to recover from the capsize before you can start looking for your pfd). Glad your are all ok.

 

[Chuck Wayne]

PFDs

Good point! we've taken to routinely wearing the Sospenders belt pouch inflatables-mandatory for anyone who leaves the cockpit- even in calm conditions. you can be in the water in an instant, even in a large boat, and having your pfd on is a major safety help while (hopefully!) the boat comes back to get you. the pouches don't get in the way,aren't hot, and at $60 aren't much more than a good std pfd