I am having a survey done on an '88 Catalina 30 that I am looking to buy. I'd appreciate your feedback on some issues I am facing: 1) Just in front of the traveller, there is a foot-shaped crack in the exterior cabin top. If you press down with your foot in the middle of this circular crack, water gurgles up (it has rained quite a bit lately). Is this major trouble? 2) When all of the boats exterior lights are switched on, only the streaming lights come on. The stern light came on once, but went out and never has come back on again. Even the two red back panel lights sometimes don't come on when the batteries are turned on; sometimes only one comes. What is this about? 3) While under sail, the wheel is very resistent to being turned even though the brake is completely off. And when you do turn the wheel, it makes a noise as if a cat is being stangled. Will this be serious/expensive to fix? 4) And finally, to replace the impeller, must the boat first be hauled out of the water? Any feedback ya'll can give me with regard to what could be the range of problems with each and what it may cost me to service, would be greatly appreciated. Prompt replies would be welcomed as well. Thanks, shfrantz
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I have an 88 Catalina with none of your listed problems, and you should be concerned. However you are getting a survey, and all of them should [must] be answered by the surveyor. Most seem to be minor and the result of deffered maintainance except for the deck crack and water intrusion. That could be a real problem and why it occurred important to determine. I found my 88 cat to be of good quality and sound, and would purchase another. If this one fails survey, there are plenty of others to chose from. Good luck and good sailing Ron B
I have an 88 Catalina with none of your listed problems, and you should be concerned. However you are getting a survey, and all of them should [must] be answered by the surveyor. Most seem to be minor and the result of deffered maintainance except for the deck crack and water intrusion. That could be a real problem and why it occurred important to determine. I found my 88 cat to be of good quality and sound, and would purchase another. If this one fails survey, there are plenty of others to chose from. Good luck and good sailing Ron B
Survey
Keep in mind you are paying for the survey, not the current owner or broker. With that said you must put your trust in what the survey finds. Hopefully you have done your homework and have found a surveyor that has the the experience to perform a survey on an aging sailboat. Many of the issues you describe may be costly to repair, and the key word is maybe. The major issue is the crack in the cabin top. This can be an indication of rot in the decking, and mast compression post problems. To fix this problem can cost thousands of dollars and require some very skilled craftsman. The other issues sound like they may be easy to repair. The lighting could be nothing more than a poor ground, or could be an indication of an electrical system that needs to be totally overhauled. The steering could be an indication of a delaminated rudder and it would then be filled with water. This makes it heavy and difficult to turn. On the other hand it may just require some lubrication on the steering chain and sheave assemblies. The impeller can be easily changed while the boat is in the water, all you do is turn off the gate valve at the engine fresh water inlet. This job takes all of 10 minutes. It sounds like this boat is currently in the water. I am just a second year owner of a Cat 30, but I would not have a survey performed without this boat being hauled. I realize that you must bear this expense, but depending the the asking price, it is a small amount of money for the piece of mind. Do not get so intent on buying the boat until the surveor gives you a clean report, or an estimate of what it will cost to make the boat right. The Cat 30 is a popular boat, and although you may not think so another one will come along that will catch your eye. Some of the issues you mention are definitly "red flags" unless the PO or broker are giving the boat away be very careful. I would love to know what the survey finds, please post again and let us know what the outcome is. Good luck.
Keep in mind you are paying for the survey, not the current owner or broker. With that said you must put your trust in what the survey finds. Hopefully you have done your homework and have found a surveyor that has the the experience to perform a survey on an aging sailboat. Many of the issues you describe may be costly to repair, and the key word is maybe. The major issue is the crack in the cabin top. This can be an indication of rot in the decking, and mast compression post problems. To fix this problem can cost thousands of dollars and require some very skilled craftsman. The other issues sound like they may be easy to repair. The lighting could be nothing more than a poor ground, or could be an indication of an electrical system that needs to be totally overhauled. The steering could be an indication of a delaminated rudder and it would then be filled with water. This makes it heavy and difficult to turn. On the other hand it may just require some lubrication on the steering chain and sheave assemblies. The impeller can be easily changed while the boat is in the water, all you do is turn off the gate valve at the engine fresh water inlet. This job takes all of 10 minutes. It sounds like this boat is currently in the water. I am just a second year owner of a Cat 30, but I would not have a survey performed without this boat being hauled. I realize that you must bear this expense, but depending the the asking price, it is a small amount of money for the piece of mind. Do not get so intent on buying the boat until the surveor gives you a clean report, or an estimate of what it will cost to make the boat right. The Cat 30 is a popular boat, and although you may not think so another one will come along that will catch your eye. Some of the issues you mention are definitly "red flags" unless the PO or broker are giving the boat away be very careful. I would love to know what the survey finds, please post again and let us know what the outcome is. Good luck.
A
Allen
Some Answers...
Hey shfrantz, I bought my fist boat, a '77 Catalina 30 about 4 years ago & I know what you're going through. Here are some answers to your questions: 1. Water in the deck core. This is a major problem if the core is soaked as your description suggests. It's possible (though unlikely) that the water is between layers of fiberglass, but even that is a red flag. Here's why: The deck has a wood core that is sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass, one is the deck on the outside of the boat, and the other is the headliner inside. Boat builders do this because it creates a relatively light but very strong deck. The problems happen when water finds its way into the wood core. This usually happens where a fitting is drilled into the deck, like a stanchion or perhaps (in your case) the mainsheet traveler. At any rate, when enough water seeps into the deck core the wood will eventually rot & ruin the structural integrity of the deck. It's a messy expensive job to fix & it's a good reason to walk away from the boat if you think that's happened. If you're not sure, have a qualified surveyor take a look. It will be $$ well spent. 3. Wiring: My lights have needed work over the years, too. It's a fact of boating especially if you're in salt water. The good news is that running new wires isn't too difficult for the running lights, and oftentimes all you need is a new bulb. The only wires that are a real pain to run are those that go up the mast. Does your anchor light work?? If so, this isn't cause for concern. 3. Sticky wheel: It sounds like you either need to lube your steering cables or you may have a bad pulley. It may cost you more than you'd expect, but it shouldn't be a reason to walk away. You mention that this happens when the boat is "under sail". How does the wheel turn when under power? How does it turn when at the dock? Another possibility is that the boat has a worn rudder post. Again, this isn't too big a deal to fix. As a side note, it amazes me how expensive some of those parts from Edson can cost (I bought a new quadrant in '01 and it was over $200 if I remember right). On the flip side, I'm glad they're there because if I had to hire a machine shop to measure & fabricate one, it would have been a lot more. Oh well. 4. Impeller replacement: The boat does not need to be hauled to replace the impeller. All fittings that go through the hull (appropriately called thru-hull fittings) will have a sea cock valve that will allow you to close the opening in the hull for service & in case you have a broken or leaky hose below the waterline. Replacing an impeller is an easy job. While we're on the subject, make sure you check that all sea cocks open & close. Sometimes they can break and/or sieze over time. Overall, I'm guessing 2 things about your questions. First, it seems like you're new to sailing which is great! Just make sure you don't make the mistake of not getting the right support as you buy a boat. Hire a surveyor. After you've bought the boat take a coast guard class or one by the US Power Squadron. Perhaps the seller can "show you the ropes" (literally!). Many people try to figure it all out on their own and it can cost them BIG TIME either in a boat that hit the rocks, someone getting hurt or you might just look like an idiot. The second thing I'm guessing is that this boat has either been sitting unused for some time or at least hasn't had any maintenance for some time. That can be both good & bad. I wanted a fixer upper so I purposely sought out a boat that was neglected & I found one. I'm handy and I was happy to do the work myself & save a few bucks. This may not describe you, though, so figure out how much reapir work you want to sign up for & pick a boat with the appropriate price that meets your needs. That soggy deck is a major concern for me. If you absolutely LOVE the boat, then get a survey. If you're not in love with the boat, I'd walk. There are literally THOUSANDS of C-30's out there & you're better off being patient and waiting until you find the right boat. I'd go to www.yachtworld.com to see some C-30's for sale, even if you want to compare your boat to other in the marketplace. Good luck & let us know if you have any more questions!!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull#632
Hey shfrantz, I bought my fist boat, a '77 Catalina 30 about 4 years ago & I know what you're going through. Here are some answers to your questions: 1. Water in the deck core. This is a major problem if the core is soaked as your description suggests. It's possible (though unlikely) that the water is between layers of fiberglass, but even that is a red flag. Here's why: The deck has a wood core that is sandwiched between two layers of fiberglass, one is the deck on the outside of the boat, and the other is the headliner inside. Boat builders do this because it creates a relatively light but very strong deck. The problems happen when water finds its way into the wood core. This usually happens where a fitting is drilled into the deck, like a stanchion or perhaps (in your case) the mainsheet traveler. At any rate, when enough water seeps into the deck core the wood will eventually rot & ruin the structural integrity of the deck. It's a messy expensive job to fix & it's a good reason to walk away from the boat if you think that's happened. If you're not sure, have a qualified surveyor take a look. It will be $$ well spent. 3. Wiring: My lights have needed work over the years, too. It's a fact of boating especially if you're in salt water. The good news is that running new wires isn't too difficult for the running lights, and oftentimes all you need is a new bulb. The only wires that are a real pain to run are those that go up the mast. Does your anchor light work?? If so, this isn't cause for concern. 3. Sticky wheel: It sounds like you either need to lube your steering cables or you may have a bad pulley. It may cost you more than you'd expect, but it shouldn't be a reason to walk away. You mention that this happens when the boat is "under sail". How does the wheel turn when under power? How does it turn when at the dock? Another possibility is that the boat has a worn rudder post. Again, this isn't too big a deal to fix. As a side note, it amazes me how expensive some of those parts from Edson can cost (I bought a new quadrant in '01 and it was over $200 if I remember right). On the flip side, I'm glad they're there because if I had to hire a machine shop to measure & fabricate one, it would have been a lot more. Oh well. 4. Impeller replacement: The boat does not need to be hauled to replace the impeller. All fittings that go through the hull (appropriately called thru-hull fittings) will have a sea cock valve that will allow you to close the opening in the hull for service & in case you have a broken or leaky hose below the waterline. Replacing an impeller is an easy job. While we're on the subject, make sure you check that all sea cocks open & close. Sometimes they can break and/or sieze over time. Overall, I'm guessing 2 things about your questions. First, it seems like you're new to sailing which is great! Just make sure you don't make the mistake of not getting the right support as you buy a boat. Hire a surveyor. After you've bought the boat take a coast guard class or one by the US Power Squadron. Perhaps the seller can "show you the ropes" (literally!). Many people try to figure it all out on their own and it can cost them BIG TIME either in a boat that hit the rocks, someone getting hurt or you might just look like an idiot. The second thing I'm guessing is that this boat has either been sitting unused for some time or at least hasn't had any maintenance for some time. That can be both good & bad. I wanted a fixer upper so I purposely sought out a boat that was neglected & I found one. I'm handy and I was happy to do the work myself & save a few bucks. This may not describe you, though, so figure out how much reapir work you want to sign up for & pick a boat with the appropriate price that meets your needs. That soggy deck is a major concern for me. If you absolutely LOVE the boat, then get a survey. If you're not in love with the boat, I'd walk. There are literally THOUSANDS of C-30's out there & you're better off being patient and waiting until you find the right boat. I'd go to www.yachtworld.com to see some C-30's for sale, even if you want to compare your boat to other in the marketplace. Good luck & let us know if you have any more questions!!! Allen Schweitzer s/v Falstaff C-30 Hull#632
Run, Don't Walk, Away!!
As has been mentioned, there are many Catalinas out there in much better shape. Unless you're a handyman AND the deal is super-sweet, this boat sounds like trouble. Look around at other similar year/price boats. Never jump on the first one you find. You'd be amazed at how much you THOUGHT you knew about looking at boats when you finally settle on one. Don't ruin the boat-buying experience by jumping early into something you'll regret later. Just my $.02. Jim
As has been mentioned, there are many Catalinas out there in much better shape. Unless you're a handyman AND the deal is super-sweet, this boat sounds like trouble. Look around at other similar year/price boats. Never jump on the first one you find. You'd be amazed at how much you THOUGHT you knew about looking at boats when you finally settle on one. Don't ruin the boat-buying experience by jumping early into something you'll regret later. Just my $.02. Jim
Check These Out
You have gotten lots of good advice. If I was in your shoes I'd go to one of the following sites...lots of good C30s out there: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com/ www.boatus.com/ www.sailnet.com/boatsearch http://www.ablboats.com/
You have gotten lots of good advice. If I was in your shoes I'd go to one of the following sites...lots of good C30s out there: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com/ www.boatus.com/ www.sailnet.com/boatsearch http://www.ablboats.com/
survey, survey, survey
last time I looked, a 88 C30 runs somewhere between 25k-32k depending on shape and equipment. find a good surveyor and let him tell you. make sure you take the day off and follow him every step he makes and ask lots of questions!
last time I looked, a 88 C30 runs somewhere between 25k-32k depending on shape and equipment. find a good surveyor and let him tell you. make sure you take the day off and follow him every step he makes and ask lots of questions!
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