Eh, I'm totally new to this. I'm trying to figure out the best boat to trade my mountain cabin for, or purchase upon sale. What's the minimum size bluewater boat advisable for circumnavigation? The budget might be between $60 & 90k. I grew up with sailboats on Useless Bay & circumnavigated the globe on a few carriers but I'm new to hardcore sailing. Thanks, Terry
Minimum bluewater?
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Can of worms
You'll really have better luck digging through the archives reading, than just reading what answers come as responses to your post. I'm just going to guess at this, but quite a few knowledgeable people have answered this very question, and probably don't want to do it again. So read what is already written!
You'll really have better luck digging through the archives reading, than just reading what answers come as responses to your post. I'm just going to guess at this, but quite a few knowledgeable people have answered this very question, and probably don't want to do it again. So read what is already written!
There is no best boat
But there are quite a few good boats in your price range. You can get from NY to Ca. in a donkey cart or you can get there in a car. Its up to you to pick your level of comfort. Most people will choose the car. Same as with boats. You can get there with the living space of a volkswagon or you can get there in reasonable comfort. I opt for the reasonable comfort and here are my suggestions: $60K will get you a good older boat in the 35 to 40 ft range and the other $30K will get you all of the upgrades you will need. This will give you a fairly decent amount of fuel and water capacity and a fairly comfortable living area. Island Packet, Pacific Seacraft, Allied and Choy Lee are good starting points. Of course there are the really high dollar names that wont fit into you budget and the low dollar names that lack the comfort required on these trips. Tony B
But there are quite a few good boats in your price range. You can get from NY to Ca. in a donkey cart or you can get there in a car. Its up to you to pick your level of comfort. Most people will choose the car. Same as with boats. You can get there with the living space of a volkswagon or you can get there in reasonable comfort. I opt for the reasonable comfort and here are my suggestions: $60K will get you a good older boat in the 35 to 40 ft range and the other $30K will get you all of the upgrades you will need. This will give you a fairly decent amount of fuel and water capacity and a fairly comfortable living area. Island Packet, Pacific Seacraft, Allied and Choy Lee are good starting points. Of course there are the really high dollar names that wont fit into you budget and the low dollar names that lack the comfort required on these trips. Tony B
Here's a good list to start with..
This is from a cruising boat thread on another forum.. Monohulls Able 32, 42, 48 * USA Superb quality, expensive. Chuck Paine designs. Alajuela 33 * USA Good value, well built Alberg 35 * USA Early f /g boats. Well proven, not expensive.Narrow, short waterlines, graceful overhangs. Alden 38, 43, 44, 46, 48, 54, 58 USA Classy, well built, beautiful & expensive. Allied 30, 32, 33, 35, 36, 39, 42 * USA Good value. Functional, practical. Amel 36 53 www.amel.fr FRA Strong, well designed. Excellent passagemaker, great value. Low maintenance. Amazon 29, 37, 44 * CAN Steel boats, attractive modern designs. Amphitrite 43 * FRA Waquiez built, strong & roomy with good storage.Odd deck design, but great boat and good value. Annie 28 * USA Every boat built by Morris is a work of art! Bayfield 29, 30 32, 40 * CAN Good value. A bit “plasticy” interiors but ok. Bluewater 60 * USA Modern, top quality Chuck Paine design. Bowman 36 58 * ENG Strong boats. Excellent passagemakers. Brewer 42 * CAN Improved version of Whitby 42. Bristol 27 45 * USA Good boats. Later models were better quality. Bristol Channel Cutter 28 USA Well built, not my personal choice. Good company. Cabot 36 * CAN Ted Brewer design Cal 2 30, 34, 36, 39, 40, 2 46, 3 46, 48 * USA Bill Lapworth designs. Many 2-46’s have circumnavigated. Comfortable, reasonably priced but look very carefully at bulkhead attachment. Caliber 28, 33, 35, 38, 40 www.caliberyacht.com USA Fairly well built. Michael McCreary designs. The 47 is not an attractive boat. Cambria 40, 44, 46 * USA Fast, well built, gorgeous and expensive. Camper Nicholson 31, 32, 35, 38, 39, 40, 43, 47, 56, 58, 70 * ENG Out of business except for shipbuilding. Watch for serious blister problems on all models. Canadian Sailcraft (CS Yachts) * CAN 36T, 36 Merlin, 40 Out of business. Cabo Rico 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 45, 47, www.caborico.com CRI Crelock and Paine designs. Expensive, semi custom. Cape Dory all models * USA All models are well designed & built. Cape George Cutters 31, 36, 38 USA Some owner completed. Strong & fast. Sometimes great value. Cascade 36, 42 USA 1965-67 design still being built. Narrow. Many owner-finished. Centurion by Wauquiez (not Beneteau) 36-59 FRA Centurion’s built before Wauquiez sold to Beneteau are solid, but w/limited tankage. Later Beneteau-built models are not appropriate or impressive except for dockside living. Cherubini 44, 48, 62 * USA Semi custom boats. Beautiful, great sailing& expensive Contessa 26 & 32 * CAN, ENG Tania Aebi & B.J. Caldwell both circumnavigated in 26's. Contest 31, 35, 36, 38, 40, 41, 42, 44, 46, 48, 55, 60 www.contestyacts.com HOL More common in Europe. Well built, new boats are very attractive. Countess 44 by Pearson * USA Ancient John Alden design. Corbin 39 * CAN Roomy and strong, but watch for hull blisters. Crealock 31, PH 32, 34, 37, 40, 44 by Pacific Seacraft * USA Good value and well built. Graceful overhangs, canoe sterns, short waterlines means these boats may hobbyhorse upwind. CSY 37, 44 * USA Sturdy, roomy & reasonably priced but old. Dana 24 by Pacific Seacraft USA An solid and expensive (for the size) slow pocket ocean cruiser. Deerfoot Yachts * Var Fast & innovative, aluminum & fiberglass hulls. Dickerson 36, 37, 40, 41, 50 * USA Nicely proportioned & well built boats. Earlier 36’s are very reasonably priced. Durbeck 46 * USA Big and roomy, long overhangs, short waterline. Endurance 35, 38, 40 * Var Peter Ibold design, some owner completed. Built by various yards in ENG, USA & Canada. Esprit 37 by Nordic * USA Perry design. Comfortable, well proven, good value. F & C 44 * ARG Modem Frers designed cruising ketch. Farr Pilot House 50, 56, 60, 63 www.farr-pilothouseyachts.com SWE Sexy, powerful, fast and glamorous. Excellent quality.First boats were built by Najad. Fast Passage 39 USA Some built in Canada, some by Tollycraft. WA. Excellent boat. Fisher 30 46 ENG Sturdy and slow motorsailers. Great for high latitude cruising. Flicka 20 USA Solidly built Mini ocean cruiser, but slow, slow, slow. Francis 26 * USA Beautiful design from Morris, an excellent yard. Fraser 41, 46, 50 * CAN Good modem cruisers. Freya 39 * USA Good value. Many owner-completed, so quality varies. FAST, full-keel design capable of 200 mpd! Garcia 46-50+ FRA Gorgeous, fast, semi custom, high quality aluminum. Gladiateur 33 * FRA Very sturdy, short on tankage, Waquiez built. Goderich 35, 37,41 * CAN Attractive Brewer steel boats. Short production run. Gozzard 31, 36, 44 CAN Good design & construction. Totally committed quality company. Hallberg-Rassy, 31,312,33,35,352,36,38,382,39,41,42,42F,43,45,46,4 9,53,62www.hallberg-rassy.com SWE Well built, comfortable, with good tankage & storage. Newer Frers designs have better sailing performance than earlier Enderlien boats. Excellent resale value. Excellent systems integration and detail. Halmatic 30 * ENG Similar to Nicholson 31. Watch for blisters. Hinkley 30-64 USA Attractive, highest quality, and expensive. Hold theirvalue well. Modest tankage & storage. Hood 38 * FRA Waquiez built, Hood design. Strong, fast, & attractive. Short on tankage. Centerboard rattles downwind. Solid choice. Hylas 46,49, 54, 54 Raised Saloon TAI Frers & S & S designs. Good sailing qualities, tankage & storage. High quality on later Jachney-era models. Island Packet 32, 35, 350, 37,38, 40, 420, 44, 45 www.ipy.com USA Roomy & comfortable with good tankage & storage but some odd features. Continually improving. Good value, exc. company. J-Boats/32, J/42; J/44, J/46, J/160 www.jboats.com USA Fast, light. Excellent sailing performance. Minimal tankage and storage. Fast downwind, pound heavily upwind. Ck keels! Jason 35 from Miller Marine * USA Some owner completed. Several have cruised extensively. Jongert 50, 55, 60, 67, 73 HOL Heavy, expensive, extremely well built steel and aluminum yachts. Not going to win any races, though! Justine 36 * USA Gorgeous Paine design, Morris built cruiser. Kaiulani 34, 38 * USA Lovely steel Brewer & Yohe designs. Very limited production. Kanter 42, 45, 60, 65 www.kanteryachts.com CAN Steel & aluminum boats, semi custom. Highest Quality. Chuck Paine & Ted Brewer designs. LM 27, 28, 290, 30, 315, 32, 380 DEN Some have inside steering. Well built and impressive. Linda 28 * USA Gorgeous design, Morris quality. Leigh 30 * USA Very well built, attractive Morris. Little Harbor 42-90 TAI & USA Ted Hood designed, heavy displacement. Semi custom. Expensive and solid as a rock. Luders 33, DOVE * USA Older, well built by Allied. Malo 36, 38, 39, 45 www.maloyachts.se SWE Quality offshore boats with good sailing performance. Attractive, reasonably priced. Strong company, good service. Mariah 31 * USA At least one circumnavigation. Pacific Seacraft built. Mason 33, 43, 44, 53, 54, 63 * TAI Some of the very best Taiwan built boats. Mercator 30 * USA Inexpensive, obscure. One has circumnavigated Moody 38, 42 , 47, 54, 64 www.moody.co.uk * ENG Good designs but some quality-control issues. Morgan 382, 383 * USA Excellent Ted Brewer design for around $60K. Morris 26, 28, 30, 32, 34,36, 42, 44, 45, 454, 46, 48.6, 52 www.morrisyachts.com USA Chuck Paine design. Superb quality, highest quality US yard building cruising boats. Expensive. Semi-custom. Mystic 57, 60 * ENG Dubois design, Bowman built, beautiful. Najad 330, 361, 370, 390, 420, 490, 520 www.najad.com SWE Quality, attractive boats. Excellent sailing performance. Good tankage, storage and high level of craftsmanship. Nauti Cat Motorsailers 35,40,43, 53, www.nauticat.com FIN Later S & S designed models are much better performers than earlier tubby models. Niagara 31, 35, 42 * CAN Well built & roomy. Superb value. Nordic 34,40,44,45 * USA Attractive boats, some solvable problems with mast step deflection on the 40 & 45. Norseman 400,447 * TAI Strong, fast, and attractive. Have held their value well. North Wind 43,50, 58 jawod@northwind.es SPA S&S designs, quality construction, good company. Ocean 60, 71 * ENG Powerful boats, many have had blister problems Ocean Cruising 42 * USA Only a few built by Hank Hinkley. Classy. Orion 27 * USA Offshore capable. Pacific Seacraft built. Oyster 42, 45, 485,49,53, 55, 56 61, 62, 63, 66, 70, 82, 100 www.oystermarine.com ENG NZL Some have inside steering. Attractive, expensive and first class! Weak resale value and larger models make this an excellent, though expensive choice. Pacific Seacraft 34, 37, 40, 44 * USA Well built boats, good resale. Graceful overhangs. Pearson 35, 365, 422, 424, 520 * USA Fairly well built, not flashy but reasonably priced. Passport 41, 415, 435, 44, 456, 470, 50 www.wagnerstevens.com TAI Modem Perry cruising design. Good storage/tankage. Pretorien 35 * FRA Strong, fast & attractive. Built by Waquiez. Best value for a boat under $85,000. Modest tankage. Rhodes Bounty II * USA Ancient Pearson fiberglass design, classic but very old, so will need tons of upgrading. Is it worth it? Regina of Vindo, 38, 43, 49 www.reginayachts.se SWE Attractive, well built, quality deck saloon. In a class of their own for quality and design. Rival 36 41 * ENG Strong, good-looking and sailing boats. Rustler 36, 42 ENG Totally impressive, quality boat and company. Sabre 34, 362,38, 402, 42, 402, 425, 452, www.sabreyachts.com USA Built in Maine, great quality, but limited tankage and storage. Sadler 34 * ENG Unsinkable, fast, great performance. Good choice. Saga 35, 43, 48 www.sagayachts.com * CAN Modern Perry design. Fast innovate and narrow. The 43 is a very tried and proven design. Santa Cruz 52 USA Strong, fast and fun! Saturna 33 * CAN Attractive, Bill Garden designed pilothouse cutter. Scanmar 35 * SWE Limited production but good design. Sceptre 41, 43 CAN Modem pilothouse with good performance. Seawind 30, Seawind II 32’ * USA Excellent boats. Good value. First. Built by Allied Yachts Seguin 44, 51 USA S & S design. Excellent boats. Semi Custom. Shannon 32, 36, 39, 43,43 II, 47, 53. www.shannonyachts.com USA Good reliable boats. Hold their value well. Skye 51 * TAI Similar in appearance to Swans. Deck problems. Southern Cross 28, 31, 35, 39 * USA Good boats. Attractive designs. Fairly well built. Spencer 35, 42, 44, 54 * CAN Older, solid boats, built in Vancouver, B.C. Stellar 52 TAI Total quality S&S design, well built, great detail work. Sundeer 56, 64 * USA Excellent & expensive. Innovative design & incredible performance. Good systems layout. Built by TPI. Swan FIN Newest designs aren’t well suited for ocean cruising. Shearwater 39, 45 RSA Strong, traditional and attractive. Sweden Yachts www.swedenyachts.se SWE Expensive & well built. Racer cruiser designs, short on tankage and storage. Tartan 3500, 37, 3700, 41, 4100, 4600, www.tartanyachts.com * USA Well proven several 37’s have circumnavigated. Some designs have centerboards. Taswell 43, 49, 56, 58, 60, 72 www.yachtworld.com/taswell TAI Quality, attractive, good sailing performance. Excellent tankage, storage and design. Tashiba 31, 36, 40 * TAI Perry designs. From the best yard in Taiwan. Topper Hermanson 40+ * USA Semi custom steel or aluminum Van de Stadt designs. Trintella HOL Roomy and well built. Newer designs are aluminum and exp. Triton 29 by Pearson * USA Good value, sturdy. Earliest F/g production boat. Valiant 32, 37, 39, 40, 42, 47, 50 www.sailnet.com/valiant USA Major blister problems on Valiant 40 hull numbers 116 250. No problems with any of the excellent Texas built boats. Proven designs, strong company. Vancouver 27 * CAN Also built in Taiwan & England. Vangard 32 * USA Good value. Phil Rhodes design, built by Pearson Vega 27, by Albin Marine * SWE At least six have circumnavigated. Inexpensive, fast. Victoria 30, 34 ENG Chuck Paine design, Morris built. Vindo 29, 34, 38, 39 SWE Attractive, well built, but high maintenance. Vineyard Vixen 30, 34 * USA Attractive design. Westerly 26 36 ENG Not flashy, but fairly well built boats. Westsail 28, 32, 39, 42, 43 * USA Sturdy boats. 39’s are rare & attractive. Perry design. Whitby 42, 44 CAN Brewer designs that sell for $85 120k. Good value. Roomy and fairly well built. Windship USA Expensive custom boats. Yankee 26, 30 * USA S & S designed. Inexpensive and capable. Great value. Passport 40 USA
This is from a cruising boat thread on another forum.. Monohulls Able 32, 42, 48 * USA Superb quality, expensive. Chuck Paine designs. Alajuela 33 * USA Good value, well built Alberg 35 * USA Early f /g boats. Well proven, not expensive.Narrow, short waterlines, graceful overhangs. Alden 38, 43, 44, 46, 48, 54, 58 USA Classy, well built, beautiful & expensive. Allied 30, 32, 33, 35, 36, 39, 42 * USA Good value. Functional, practical. Amel 36 53 www.amel.fr FRA Strong, well designed. Excellent passagemaker, great value. Low maintenance. Amazon 29, 37, 44 * CAN Steel boats, attractive modern designs. Amphitrite 43 * FRA Waquiez built, strong & roomy with good storage.Odd deck design, but great boat and good value. Annie 28 * USA Every boat built by Morris is a work of art! Bayfield 29, 30 32, 40 * CAN Good value. A bit “plasticy” interiors but ok. Bluewater 60 * USA Modern, top quality Chuck Paine design. Bowman 36 58 * ENG Strong boats. Excellent passagemakers. Brewer 42 * CAN Improved version of Whitby 42. Bristol 27 45 * USA Good boats. Later models were better quality. Bristol Channel Cutter 28 USA Well built, not my personal choice. Good company. Cabot 36 * CAN Ted Brewer design Cal 2 30, 34, 36, 39, 40, 2 46, 3 46, 48 * USA Bill Lapworth designs. Many 2-46’s have circumnavigated. Comfortable, reasonably priced but look very carefully at bulkhead attachment. Caliber 28, 33, 35, 38, 40 www.caliberyacht.com USA Fairly well built. Michael McCreary designs. The 47 is not an attractive boat. Cambria 40, 44, 46 * USA Fast, well built, gorgeous and expensive. Camper Nicholson 31, 32, 35, 38, 39, 40, 43, 47, 56, 58, 70 * ENG Out of business except for shipbuilding. Watch for serious blister problems on all models. Canadian Sailcraft (CS Yachts) * CAN 36T, 36 Merlin, 40 Out of business. Cabo Rico 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 45, 47, www.caborico.com CRI Crelock and Paine designs. Expensive, semi custom. Cape Dory all models * USA All models are well designed & built. Cape George Cutters 31, 36, 38 USA Some owner completed. Strong & fast. Sometimes great value. Cascade 36, 42 USA 1965-67 design still being built. Narrow. Many owner-finished. Centurion by Wauquiez (not Beneteau) 36-59 FRA Centurion’s built before Wauquiez sold to Beneteau are solid, but w/limited tankage. Later Beneteau-built models are not appropriate or impressive except for dockside living. Cherubini 44, 48, 62 * USA Semi custom boats. Beautiful, great sailing& expensive Contessa 26 & 32 * CAN, ENG Tania Aebi & B.J. Caldwell both circumnavigated in 26's. Contest 31, 35, 36, 38, 40, 41, 42, 44, 46, 48, 55, 60 www.contestyacts.com HOL More common in Europe. Well built, new boats are very attractive. Countess 44 by Pearson * USA Ancient John Alden design. Corbin 39 * CAN Roomy and strong, but watch for hull blisters. Crealock 31, PH 32, 34, 37, 40, 44 by Pacific Seacraft * USA Good value and well built. Graceful overhangs, canoe sterns, short waterlines means these boats may hobbyhorse upwind. CSY 37, 44 * USA Sturdy, roomy & reasonably priced but old. Dana 24 by Pacific Seacraft USA An solid and expensive (for the size) slow pocket ocean cruiser. Deerfoot Yachts * Var Fast & innovative, aluminum & fiberglass hulls. Dickerson 36, 37, 40, 41, 50 * USA Nicely proportioned & well built boats. Earlier 36’s are very reasonably priced. Durbeck 46 * USA Big and roomy, long overhangs, short waterline. Endurance 35, 38, 40 * Var Peter Ibold design, some owner completed. Built by various yards in ENG, USA & Canada. Esprit 37 by Nordic * USA Perry design. Comfortable, well proven, good value. F & C 44 * ARG Modem Frers designed cruising ketch. Farr Pilot House 50, 56, 60, 63 www.farr-pilothouseyachts.com SWE Sexy, powerful, fast and glamorous. Excellent quality.First boats were built by Najad. Fast Passage 39 USA Some built in Canada, some by Tollycraft. WA. Excellent boat. Fisher 30 46 ENG Sturdy and slow motorsailers. Great for high latitude cruising. Flicka 20 USA Solidly built Mini ocean cruiser, but slow, slow, slow. Francis 26 * USA Beautiful design from Morris, an excellent yard. Fraser 41, 46, 50 * CAN Good modem cruisers. Freya 39 * USA Good value. Many owner-completed, so quality varies. FAST, full-keel design capable of 200 mpd! Garcia 46-50+ FRA Gorgeous, fast, semi custom, high quality aluminum. Gladiateur 33 * FRA Very sturdy, short on tankage, Waquiez built. Goderich 35, 37,41 * CAN Attractive Brewer steel boats. Short production run. Gozzard 31, 36, 44 CAN Good design & construction. Totally committed quality company. Hallberg-Rassy, 31,312,33,35,352,36,38,382,39,41,42,42F,43,45,46,4 9,53,62www.hallberg-rassy.com SWE Well built, comfortable, with good tankage & storage. Newer Frers designs have better sailing performance than earlier Enderlien boats. Excellent resale value. Excellent systems integration and detail. Halmatic 30 * ENG Similar to Nicholson 31. Watch for blisters. Hinkley 30-64 USA Attractive, highest quality, and expensive. Hold theirvalue well. Modest tankage & storage. Hood 38 * FRA Waquiez built, Hood design. Strong, fast, & attractive. Short on tankage. Centerboard rattles downwind. Solid choice. Hylas 46,49, 54, 54 Raised Saloon TAI Frers & S & S designs. Good sailing qualities, tankage & storage. High quality on later Jachney-era models. Island Packet 32, 35, 350, 37,38, 40, 420, 44, 45 www.ipy.com USA Roomy & comfortable with good tankage & storage but some odd features. Continually improving. Good value, exc. company. J-Boats/32, J/42; J/44, J/46, J/160 www.jboats.com USA Fast, light. Excellent sailing performance. Minimal tankage and storage. Fast downwind, pound heavily upwind. Ck keels! Jason 35 from Miller Marine * USA Some owner completed. Several have cruised extensively. Jongert 50, 55, 60, 67, 73 HOL Heavy, expensive, extremely well built steel and aluminum yachts. Not going to win any races, though! Justine 36 * USA Gorgeous Paine design, Morris built cruiser. Kaiulani 34, 38 * USA Lovely steel Brewer & Yohe designs. Very limited production. Kanter 42, 45, 60, 65 www.kanteryachts.com CAN Steel & aluminum boats, semi custom. Highest Quality. Chuck Paine & Ted Brewer designs. LM 27, 28, 290, 30, 315, 32, 380 DEN Some have inside steering. Well built and impressive. Linda 28 * USA Gorgeous design, Morris quality. Leigh 30 * USA Very well built, attractive Morris. Little Harbor 42-90 TAI & USA Ted Hood designed, heavy displacement. Semi custom. Expensive and solid as a rock. Luders 33, DOVE * USA Older, well built by Allied. Malo 36, 38, 39, 45 www.maloyachts.se SWE Quality offshore boats with good sailing performance. Attractive, reasonably priced. Strong company, good service. Mariah 31 * USA At least one circumnavigation. Pacific Seacraft built. Mason 33, 43, 44, 53, 54, 63 * TAI Some of the very best Taiwan built boats. Mercator 30 * USA Inexpensive, obscure. One has circumnavigated Moody 38, 42 , 47, 54, 64 www.moody.co.uk * ENG Good designs but some quality-control issues. Morgan 382, 383 * USA Excellent Ted Brewer design for around $60K. Morris 26, 28, 30, 32, 34,36, 42, 44, 45, 454, 46, 48.6, 52 www.morrisyachts.com USA Chuck Paine design. Superb quality, highest quality US yard building cruising boats. Expensive. Semi-custom. Mystic 57, 60 * ENG Dubois design, Bowman built, beautiful. Najad 330, 361, 370, 390, 420, 490, 520 www.najad.com SWE Quality, attractive boats. Excellent sailing performance. Good tankage, storage and high level of craftsmanship. Nauti Cat Motorsailers 35,40,43, 53, www.nauticat.com FIN Later S & S designed models are much better performers than earlier tubby models. Niagara 31, 35, 42 * CAN Well built & roomy. Superb value. Nordic 34,40,44,45 * USA Attractive boats, some solvable problems with mast step deflection on the 40 & 45. Norseman 400,447 * TAI Strong, fast, and attractive. Have held their value well. North Wind 43,50, 58 jawod@northwind.es SPA S&S designs, quality construction, good company. Ocean 60, 71 * ENG Powerful boats, many have had blister problems Ocean Cruising 42 * USA Only a few built by Hank Hinkley. Classy. Orion 27 * USA Offshore capable. Pacific Seacraft built. Oyster 42, 45, 485,49,53, 55, 56 61, 62, 63, 66, 70, 82, 100 www.oystermarine.com ENG NZL Some have inside steering. Attractive, expensive and first class! Weak resale value and larger models make this an excellent, though expensive choice. Pacific Seacraft 34, 37, 40, 44 * USA Well built boats, good resale. Graceful overhangs. Pearson 35, 365, 422, 424, 520 * USA Fairly well built, not flashy but reasonably priced. Passport 41, 415, 435, 44, 456, 470, 50 www.wagnerstevens.com TAI Modem Perry cruising design. Good storage/tankage. Pretorien 35 * FRA Strong, fast & attractive. Built by Waquiez. Best value for a boat under $85,000. Modest tankage. Rhodes Bounty II * USA Ancient Pearson fiberglass design, classic but very old, so will need tons of upgrading. Is it worth it? Regina of Vindo, 38, 43, 49 www.reginayachts.se SWE Attractive, well built, quality deck saloon. In a class of their own for quality and design. Rival 36 41 * ENG Strong, good-looking and sailing boats. Rustler 36, 42 ENG Totally impressive, quality boat and company. Sabre 34, 362,38, 402, 42, 402, 425, 452, www.sabreyachts.com USA Built in Maine, great quality, but limited tankage and storage. Sadler 34 * ENG Unsinkable, fast, great performance. Good choice. Saga 35, 43, 48 www.sagayachts.com * CAN Modern Perry design. Fast innovate and narrow. The 43 is a very tried and proven design. Santa Cruz 52 USA Strong, fast and fun! Saturna 33 * CAN Attractive, Bill Garden designed pilothouse cutter. Scanmar 35 * SWE Limited production but good design. Sceptre 41, 43 CAN Modem pilothouse with good performance. Seawind 30, Seawind II 32’ * USA Excellent boats. Good value. First. Built by Allied Yachts Seguin 44, 51 USA S & S design. Excellent boats. Semi Custom. Shannon 32, 36, 39, 43,43 II, 47, 53. www.shannonyachts.com USA Good reliable boats. Hold their value well. Skye 51 * TAI Similar in appearance to Swans. Deck problems. Southern Cross 28, 31, 35, 39 * USA Good boats. Attractive designs. Fairly well built. Spencer 35, 42, 44, 54 * CAN Older, solid boats, built in Vancouver, B.C. Stellar 52 TAI Total quality S&S design, well built, great detail work. Sundeer 56, 64 * USA Excellent & expensive. Innovative design & incredible performance. Good systems layout. Built by TPI. Swan FIN Newest designs aren’t well suited for ocean cruising. Shearwater 39, 45 RSA Strong, traditional and attractive. Sweden Yachts www.swedenyachts.se SWE Expensive & well built. Racer cruiser designs, short on tankage and storage. Tartan 3500, 37, 3700, 41, 4100, 4600, www.tartanyachts.com * USA Well proven several 37’s have circumnavigated. Some designs have centerboards. Taswell 43, 49, 56, 58, 60, 72 www.yachtworld.com/taswell TAI Quality, attractive, good sailing performance. Excellent tankage, storage and design. Tashiba 31, 36, 40 * TAI Perry designs. From the best yard in Taiwan. Topper Hermanson 40+ * USA Semi custom steel or aluminum Van de Stadt designs. Trintella HOL Roomy and well built. Newer designs are aluminum and exp. Triton 29 by Pearson * USA Good value, sturdy. Earliest F/g production boat. Valiant 32, 37, 39, 40, 42, 47, 50 www.sailnet.com/valiant USA Major blister problems on Valiant 40 hull numbers 116 250. No problems with any of the excellent Texas built boats. Proven designs, strong company. Vancouver 27 * CAN Also built in Taiwan & England. Vangard 32 * USA Good value. Phil Rhodes design, built by Pearson Vega 27, by Albin Marine * SWE At least six have circumnavigated. Inexpensive, fast. Victoria 30, 34 ENG Chuck Paine design, Morris built. Vindo 29, 34, 38, 39 SWE Attractive, well built, but high maintenance. Vineyard Vixen 30, 34 * USA Attractive design. Westerly 26 36 ENG Not flashy, but fairly well built boats. Westsail 28, 32, 39, 42, 43 * USA Sturdy boats. 39’s are rare & attractive. Perry design. Whitby 42, 44 CAN Brewer designs that sell for $85 120k. Good value. Roomy and fairly well built. Windship USA Expensive custom boats. Yankee 26, 30 * USA S & S designed. Inexpensive and capable. Great value. Passport 40 USA
Thanks for narrowing it down for him
Hi guys I'm back from Iraq Seems things have not changed much. Same questions, same responses. That's what I like about this group, always willing to answer the question one more time. BTW Iraq stinks, and I'm glad to be back. The outhouse living was getting to be quite the drag. I mean even my boat has indoor plumbing and electricity. Kinda hard to believe that living on a boat in the US you are batter off than most Iraqis who have been living there for 3000+ years. Simply amazing.
Hi guys I'm back from Iraq Seems things have not changed much. Same questions, same responses. That's what I like about this group, always willing to answer the question one more time. BTW Iraq stinks, and I'm glad to be back. The outhouse living was getting to be quite the drag. I mean even my boat has indoor plumbing and electricity. Kinda hard to believe that living on a boat in the US you are batter off than most Iraqis who have been living there for 3000+ years. Simply amazing.
Deja vu...
...I've seen that list before. Practically every boat ever made, even some real dogs, but nothing built by Beneteau, Hunter, Tayana, Juneau or Catalina. Whoever put that list together originally must of had something skewed in his head about production boats. If a manufacturer like Cal or Morgan went belly up, they made it to the list, but if they were still successfully selling boats, they obviously were not "bluewater" capable. Sheesh.
...I've seen that list before. Practically every boat ever made, even some real dogs, but nothing built by Beneteau, Hunter, Tayana, Juneau or Catalina. Whoever put that list together originally must of had something skewed in his head about production boats. If a manufacturer like Cal or Morgan went belly up, they made it to the list, but if they were still successfully selling boats, they obviously were not "bluewater" capable. Sheesh.
Deja vu...
I'm with you John. After all, if the old ways were better we would still be doing it that way, maybe. This is no reflection on Mainsail, he just copied the list. I think the list is rediculous to be that long. It should have at least been broken up into categories such as "high dollar dogs", "low dollar dogs", "very expensive", "comfortable", "Cramped", etc. This list seems like " how many manufacturers can I name?" Tony B
I'm with you John. After all, if the old ways were better we would still be doing it that way, maybe. This is no reflection on Mainsail, he just copied the list. I think the list is rediculous to be that long. It should have at least been broken up into categories such as "high dollar dogs", "low dollar dogs", "very expensive", "comfortable", "Cramped", etc. This list seems like " how many manufacturers can I name?" Tony B
Look at Cruise news
http://cruisenews.net/db/shipsatsea.php Here is a link to some people that are cruising. Many have photos to check out the boats http://www.solo-sailor.com/ShipLog.htm Here is a story of how not to sail around.
http://cruisenews.net/db/shipsatsea.php Here is a link to some people that are cruising. Many have photos to check out the boats http://www.solo-sailor.com/ShipLog.htm Here is a story of how not to sail around.
Production Boats
There is no evidence that I know of that today's production boats are any less seaworthy than so-called blue water boats. Evidence the sad loss of a 54' Little Harbor called Flying Colours last year off the North Carolina coast. Proof that even blue water boats are lost on occassion. When caught in 45' seas you better have a Coast Guard Cutter close by to rescue your butt no matter what your sailing.
There is no evidence that I know of that today's production boats are any less seaworthy than so-called blue water boats. Evidence the sad loss of a 54' Little Harbor called Flying Colours last year off the North Carolina coast. Proof that even blue water boats are lost on occassion. When caught in 45' seas you better have a Coast Guard Cutter close by to rescue your butt no matter what your sailing.
Here's a list of (just) West Coast circumnavigators ....
and lists their boat type and design. This is 'just' West Coast boats but should give a representative sample of the (successful) 'blue water' boats actually chosen by these 'west coasters'. http://www.latitude38.com/features/circumnav.html Which boat is the most favored? Valiant, Tayana ... and then it seems all the other Bob Perry designs. From a purely 'structural' basis ...... a 'blue water' boat will be designed at 4 times the expected encountered strength/stress; Coastal boats will be closer to 3 times (or less) as structurally strong ... and most 'production' boats will fall into this category. Historically (scantlings from insurance records, etc. etc.), boats that are built 4 times (or more) as strong will have a better chance of surviving the 'worst' conditions than a boat built to only 3 times as strong (or less). That 3 or 4 times is the SAFETY FACTOR included in structural design. Interestingly and with respect to 'fatigue', universallly most critical (metal) structures need to be designed to *well above* an inbuilt Safety Factor of 3X to ensure their long service life .... for repetitive or cyclical loading. So it seems that marine designers also follow these 'rules of thumb' for 'blue water' boats where the repetitive/cyclic loadings are the greatest. At least thats what I back-calculate when stress analyzing the 'blue water' designers such as Perry, Creighlock, Harris, Garden, etc. etc. etc. ... and I keep 'deriving'/finding a Factor of Safety at 4 (or above) in assaying most of their work/design. When speaking to these folks they will acknowledge to this 4X *factor of safety* for 'offshore' design criteria. I own a specifically designed 'blue water' boat. To me, Its a 'redundant strength' or 'factor of safety' issue that separates a truly 'blue water' boat from .......... unsupported hype. All of this is notwithstanding the 'expertise', etc. of the sailor. ;-)
and lists their boat type and design. This is 'just' West Coast boats but should give a representative sample of the (successful) 'blue water' boats actually chosen by these 'west coasters'. http://www.latitude38.com/features/circumnav.html Which boat is the most favored? Valiant, Tayana ... and then it seems all the other Bob Perry designs. From a purely 'structural' basis ...... a 'blue water' boat will be designed at 4 times the expected encountered strength/stress; Coastal boats will be closer to 3 times (or less) as structurally strong ... and most 'production' boats will fall into this category. Historically (scantlings from insurance records, etc. etc.), boats that are built 4 times (or more) as strong will have a better chance of surviving the 'worst' conditions than a boat built to only 3 times as strong (or less). That 3 or 4 times is the SAFETY FACTOR included in structural design. Interestingly and with respect to 'fatigue', universallly most critical (metal) structures need to be designed to *well above* an inbuilt Safety Factor of 3X to ensure their long service life .... for repetitive or cyclical loading. So it seems that marine designers also follow these 'rules of thumb' for 'blue water' boats where the repetitive/cyclic loadings are the greatest. At least thats what I back-calculate when stress analyzing the 'blue water' designers such as Perry, Creighlock, Harris, Garden, etc. etc. etc. ... and I keep 'deriving'/finding a Factor of Safety at 4 (or above) in assaying most of their work/design. When speaking to these folks they will acknowledge to this 4X *factor of safety* for 'offshore' design criteria. I own a specifically designed 'blue water' boat. To me, Its a 'redundant strength' or 'factor of safety' issue that separates a truly 'blue water' boat from .......... unsupported hype. All of this is notwithstanding the 'expertise', etc. of the sailor. ;-)
I think it would take many hours to study that list
and re organize it into the most used to the least used brands and models. In a cursory reading I didn't see any brand that repeated with predictable frequency. The length also ranged from 20 to 200 feet.
and re organize it into the most used to the least used brands and models. In a cursory reading I didn't see any brand that repeated with predictable frequency. The length also ranged from 20 to 200 feet.
Start With Length
Your question asked about size. I have looked at many well-equipped bluewater sailboats and have concluded that for me, a boat around 42 feet in length would work. Once you have defined the length I would then consider certain types of about that length. Maine Sail's list confirms for me that I would not take my 39 foot Beneteau 390 offshore, preferring a more solidly-built boat. My boat is great round the coast, but way out there, no way. Those toe-rails would start leaking again in a heart-beat and that cranky main-furler would jam for sure at the worst time. Flexing and twisting in a coastal cruiser is way more prevalent than that in a true bluewater boat.
Your question asked about size. I have looked at many well-equipped bluewater sailboats and have concluded that for me, a boat around 42 feet in length would work. Once you have defined the length I would then consider certain types of about that length. Maine Sail's list confirms for me that I would not take my 39 foot Beneteau 390 offshore, preferring a more solidly-built boat. My boat is great round the coast, but way out there, no way. Those toe-rails would start leaking again in a heart-beat and that cranky main-furler would jam for sure at the worst time. Flexing and twisting in a coastal cruiser is way more prevalent than that in a true bluewater boat.
Start with weight maybe 6 ton minimum
When you are thinking blue water weight might be better than length. My boat weighs 12500#s 32' long and is considered a coastal boat.
When you are thinking blue water weight might be better than length. My boat weighs 12500#s 32' long and is considered a coastal boat.
Little Harbor
Little Harbor 42-90 TAI & USA Ted Hood designed, heavy displacement. Semi custom. Expensive and solid as a rock. Really? Ask the family of the crew of Flying Colours.
Little Harbor 42-90 TAI & USA Ted Hood designed, heavy displacement. Semi custom. Expensive and solid as a rock. Really? Ask the family of the crew of Flying Colours.
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