Micro mainframe computer versus notebook in nav station

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Nov 25, 2010
50
hunter 35.5 catawba island
Sumner,

We use a compact disc drive which is only about 1/2" thick and is about 5" square. You need 2 USB hubs to operate it but does eliminate the need for a built in disc drive.

If you want to add AIS I suggest buying a Standard Horizon Matrix VHF radio. Practical Sailor rated it number one when it first came out. I saw someone in the classifieds had a slightly used one for $275. They can be bought new for about $350. It has an AIS receiver built into it (mainly because the frequency range is close to the VHF spectrum they already use and the cost to add AIS is minimal). The radio has 0183 inputs and outputs that hook on to your computer so you can get your AIS information. In turn you can feed your GPS information back to your radio which provides the information it needs for emergency DSC information. This way you only need one VHF antenna and no expensive dedicated AIS box. I gave an example of what AIS looked like on the free software we use. It also can be added to Open CPN another outstanding free program that does an excellent job with AIS displays on your chart.

If you are interested go to the Open CPN site and you can see how it can predict point of impact based on your speed and that of the ship you are trying to avoid. Since AIS information is right at your radio it is very easy to contact that ship by name. We tried it out in a real life test and it works very well.

We have thought about marketing our computer but we would like to have some other people test it first for feedback. Hopefully we can avoid unanticipated surprises. We are looking for testers who are sailors that have only average computer skills.This way we can measure how much difficulty they may have hooking up all their instruments in order for them to talk together. Our three lead RS 232 ports are easy to understand and can be quickly guessed at even if you do not understand how the signals work. This we think will be key to whether or not our computer is marketable.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
......If you want to add AIS I suggest buying a Standard Horizon Matrix VHF radio. Practical Sailor rated it number one when it first came out. I saw someone in the classifieds had a slightly used one for $275. They can be bought new for about $350. It has an AIS receiver built into it (mainly because the frequency range is close to the VHF spectrum they already use and the cost to add AIS is minimal). The radio has 0183 inputs and outputs that hook on to your computer so you can get your AIS information. In turn you can feed your GPS information back to your radio which provides the information it needs for emergency DSC information. This way you only need one VHF antenna and no expensive dedicated AIS box....
Thanks, that is great info. We were going to buy a Standard Horizon with DSC like we have in the Mac for the Endeavour next month for $130. I see Defender has the Matrix for a little less than $300, so it would only cost about $170 more to go with the Matrix and have the AIS and more. I think we will do that. It will be far cheaper than doing the VHF and then the AIS later and less complicated.

And here I'd just bought another Garmin 76 on e-bay for $60 for the input for the DSC on the radio. I think I might still keep it as backup for the DSC as I'd like to have another GPS source for the radio in case the computer when down.

Good luck with your project, I think there is a market out there for what you are doing,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Endeavour 37[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I forgot :redface:, I have Open CPN on the computer also, but so far like SeaClear better. It did a good job getting us all over southern Florida. It also has AIS, but I need to use CPN more and then make a better decision as to which we will use more,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Endeavour 37[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
 
Nov 25, 2010
50
hunter 35.5 catawba island
Sumner,

Here are some examples of actual AIS targets on charts. The first is with Polar Navy and the second is with OPEN CPN. I am sitting dockside so I can not show you the avoidance system. This was taken off a log file I did last summer using NAVMon PC. I can literally record a whole trip and play it back on any chart software I so choose in live animation!! The third shot is what another guy did using his NaVMon PC file to play back the weather conditions at the time of a deadly accident on Lake Michigan. This accident occurred during the annual race to Mackinac. As the graph shows a quick giant wind squall came through all at once which caused a racer to capsize.
 

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Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Sumner,

Here are some examples of actual AIS targets on charts. The first is with Polar Navy and the second is with OPEN CPN. I am sitting dockside so I can not show you the avoidance system. This was taken off a log file I did last summer using NAVMon PC. I can literally record a whole trip and play it back on any chart software I so choose in live animation!! The third shot is what another guy did using his NaVMon PC file to play back the weather conditions at the time of a deadly accident on Lake Michigan. This accident occurred during the annual race to Mackinac. As the graph shows a quick giant wind squall came through all at once which caused a racer to capsize.
Thanks, I like that. Do you have the Matrix AIS or AIS+. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out if we need the "+" or not? It looks like the "+" is around $354 from Defender and that is closer to the price you quoted. The AIS is $299 from them.

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Endeavour 37[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
 
Nov 25, 2010
50
hunter 35.5 catawba island
Sumner,

My radio is just the Matrix model. Apparently RayMarine's newer chart plotters did not work well with the original Matrix model. If you use a separate computer with its own gps communication, the information needed for the emergency DSC system on the radio can come from your computer. I am not sure about the AIS to a RayMarine chart plotter. I got a good deal on a 12" Standard Horizon chart plotter. I like the fact that I can add radar to it for about another $1000. Of course there is no problem with interface between the radio and the chart plotter. The other thing I liked about the Matrix is that I can operate the radio with a remote mic that I added at the helm. It's like having another radio on board, very handy. The tech support guys at Standard Horizon are very helpful. Just call them and they will be able to explain the difference. Incidentally I looked at your website and was very impressed with your Studebaker what an awesome race car !!
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
..The tech support guys at Standard Horizon are very helpful. Just call them and they will be able to explain the difference. Incidentally I looked at your website and was very impressed with your Studebaker what an awesome race car !!
I got it figured out, downloaded the manuals. The Matrix 2000 will show AIS, but you need to buy a separate AIS receiver.

The Matrix 2100 has the AIS receiver built into the radio, but you can have a problem with the NEMA in and out for the GPS if your chart plotter only has one input/output for NEMA, since the NEMA in/out for the GPS is 4800 baud and the AIS output from the radio is 38,400 baud. If your plotter has more than one in/out, with one being able to handle the 38,400 baud, you should be fine.

To sell to people with older plotters they modified the 2100 into the Matrix 2150 and it is more programable as far as the bauds on the in/out and should work with more older plotters. They also added a couple more small features that I'm not interested in. Since the SeaClear will work with the 38,400 baud coming in from the radio for AIS I think we are fine with the 2100.

I think that I'll still use the extra Garmin handheld we bought for the GPS into the radio. That way if the computer crashed the radio would still have our location just in case we needed to use the DSC for an emergency.

I've found the 2100 for as low now as $230-$240 and that is only $100 more than the radio we were getting and well worth it for the AIS features and a lot of other features it has such as being easy to contact any vessel that is sending AIS. Also it can direct you to up to 100 waypoints and/or a vessel that is emitting a DSC distress call and much more. Looks like a great radio. I think we will order one Monday.

I'm sure we will also add the Ram mike a little later when we can afford it for the reasons you mentioned. Thanks for making me aware of all of this,

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Endeavour 37[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,204
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Polar Navy

The navigation software I'm using so far is Polar Navy (a very inexpensive chart plotter) that also can display all my helm instruments and give me Active Captain information about various marinas and ports. I am using the free NavMon PC program for trending, wind information, AIS, ships log , anchor watch etc. Open CPN is also linked in for charting and planning purposes. I have all the NOAA charts integrated into these programs as well.
So, how do you like Polar Navy? I'm running SeaClear ll and Open CPN. I'm satisfied with both but find myself using Open CPN a bit more. Polar Navy seems to have some more powerful tools. For straight navigation, how do you like it and how does it compare (assuming you tried the two)?
 
Nov 25, 2010
50
hunter 35.5 catawba island
Rick D,

I like Polar Navy for a number of reasons. The Polar Com part is great for showing any NEMA 0183 sentence on your net. I think my example was showing only six parameters but it is possible to show up to 16 parameters. I am messing around with possibly trying to build a tank monitoring system. I think I can interface the sensor to an anduino board and use it's ports to link up to the rest of the system. The same should be true with engine temperature and oil pressure.

The Polar View part of it lends itself to using a touch screen, Open CPN was way to difficult to use with touch screen. I think the quilting on Polar Navy is much smoother than Open CPN and overall the charting and course setting seems easier to use.
The Active Captain is a great feature. I use it often when I am pulling into a new port.
There is an incredible amount of information you can look up before you arrive. You just have to make sure that you down load ahead of time the area you plan to visit. This way you do not need have an internet connection as you near your port. I can usually find out ahead of time which Marinas will best suit me best and then be able to call them on the VHF as I get near them.
The system even has grib file overlays.

Polar Navy gives you several keys upon purchase so you can hook up several computers with same software purchase.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Just an update on the Matrix 2100 with AIS. We ordered one this morning from the GPS Store and it was $249.95 with 2 day shipping. Thanks for putting us on to this!!

On the race car that is my friends car. I designed the hood and the data collection system and some other stuff with the car, but he did most of the work. Our 250 mph record got blown away this past year. I'm building...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bvillecarindexpage.html

...a lakester myself and if I can ever stop working on these sailboats will go back to work on it and hopefully finish it :),

Sum

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Endeavour 37[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Our MacGregor S Pages[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]
 
Jun 29, 2010
84
Beneteau 473 Rock Hall, MD
Very Cool!

That said, in 1982 we ran and entire nuclear submarine (637 class) on 128 k (yes that is K) of memory and a processor that was not quite as powerful as an 8088!
 
Nov 25, 2010
50
hunter 35.5 catawba island
In the late 1970's I landed an electronic tech job repairing Spacelab heart monitors. They got the name from the fact they invented telemetry used to monitor vital signs of at first monkeys and then astronauts sent into space. By the time I worked for them the monkeys were given to the Los Angeles Zoo and the space race to the moon was all over. The earliest monitors actually used long tightly wound springs (similar to heating coils) as a type of memory to slow electrons traveling across a CRT screen to give a sort of vapor trail or shadow so you could see a whole heart beat sentence across the screen. These were the first bouncing ball displays. Sound engineers also used the same idea for the old reverbs in radios, pre runner to stereos.
As things began to miniaturize our company engineers would put 2 circuit boards in an 12" by 8" module so two boards were sandwiched over each other. They would get so hot that the solder would melt and transistors would fall out of the circuit boards. Nixey tube displays were a sign of expensive high tech!!
 
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