MD17C rebuild
- Thread starter Mark Maulden
- Start date
Super Bowl Sunday: Went to the boat and turned the key. Did NOT want to start again. When I got it started it cleared up but still did not run "right". There is air in this fuel!!!!I have already replaced the fuel line from the primary filter to the engine. So, out of desperation, I pulled the quarter berth lid up exposing the fuel tank. I have some rescue tape which is a silicon tape of some sort that molds to itself creating a good seal. I just started taping connections up. I got to the flare fitting on the inlet side of the primary filter and the copper tube would slide in/out of the fitting. What the h @#$#??? Took it apart and literally all of the flare is missing. So, enough is enough. All the hard copper tubing gets ripped out and replaced with new hose. After this, if it doesn't start right, I'll really be at a loss cuz everything will be new (cept for filter itself. Hmmm). Not really a football fan, but I think I'll pop one and just turn the tube on....Can't buy fittings today...
Wed night: Stopped by the boat and tried to start... Again, did not want to start... Very exasperating. Went to the local shop and they loaned me a jug with diesel and some clear tubing. Pulled the output hose off the primary filter and hooked it into the clear tube. Got the engine started and it was not pulling fuel out of the jug. You'd think even with air in the tubing it would still pull fuel out along with air. Eventually, it died as expected. I think I'm just going to rip out the 30 yr old Volvo filter and replace with a racor 500 and an electric fuel pump. Question is if I can put an electric fuel pump ahead of the engine driven lift pump. The engine driven has check valves as all pumps do. I'd by pass it except for all the fancy Volvo fittings. I still might try and find a way with some advice. Problem is the injector return does not go to the tank. It goes back to the on-engine filter where the output of the lift pump goes. I have rebuilt this engine driven pump and the local shop also tells me that they have had issues with lift distance. Mine is not over 2' so not sure what's going on......This will be the last shot with the shot gun. Then, I just tell 'em to fix it. I'm out of ideas/time/patience.....
decided to replace the fuel lift pump with an OEM replacement.Naturally, it was redesigned and I had to get a hose to go with it and the hard tube would not fit the new pump. Also, have on order a Racor 500. If this doesnt work, then there's one more hose between the secondary filter output to the input of the inj pump. They only thing to try is spin the engine with fuel control to off for about 3 min. Then turn it on and see what happens. The engine has a lot more compression than the old one did as you can tell when you try to turn it over by hand. Put my hands over the breather vents when running and it seems pretty equal. POSITIVE THINKING ON THIS NEXT GO AROUND. Maybe this sat.
No Fed Ex shipment of fuel lift pump today. They actually did a good job of tracing it. Volvo in GA put the wrong city and wrong zip code on the pkg. So, I'm not going to get to try it this weekend... AAARRRGGHHHHHHHH!!!!
FedEx showed up this morning. Work was slow so I took a half day off and went to the boat. I actuated the pump by hand with fingers over the orifices and it worked well. When I put the pump in I first tested it by turning the engine over with my fingers over the pump orifices. NOTHING!!!! I pulled it out: reinstalled it to make sure the lever was over the cam lobe etc. Nothing. Pulled pump out and stuck my finger inside and felt the lobe surface. Kept clicking the engine (finger out) and kept feeling. I can feel ridges on the sides of the non lobe end. I got to where I can keep my finger on the lobe while turning the engine. It looks like the cam is worn out where the fuel pump lever goes. Hopefully, they'll take the pump back since no fuel fitting was connected. Electric fuel pump on order and here Wed....
Put the electric pump in sat and got it started. Another acid test was today and it flunked again big time....It takes so long to start that I have to close off the raw water seacock for fear of filling exhaust with sea water. Electric pump is a Facet cube and I noticed it never quits pumping (or making it normal sounds) when the engine is stopped. I would think once it comes to pressure, it would quit. There are no leaks on the pressure side of it. So, I'm now at a total loss and a consultation with the mechanics are in order. The injectors tested good. There is compression as I can't hardly turn it over by hand. Perhaps something with the injector pump. One option being considered is just cutting my losses and repower....I'd like to sail sometime...
The cube did start out loud until I got things bled. Then it quieted down to the "tick" but the tick did not eventually stop completely. Open the bleed screw on the secondary filter and there's ample pressure. Fuel shoots everywhere. No glow plugs on this engine. I've also tried removing the breathers and shooting hot air from a (real) heat gun. Once this engine is running, it runs great. Shut it down for a few hrs and it starts faster then you can turn the key. Come back next day and nothing. Smokes like hell during cranking and when it eventually catches, a lot of smoke and slow running until it clears
I've heard of the WD-40 trick. Evidently, it's better than ether. But this engine should not need it. Maybe I should give it a shot and see if it fires. Maybe that'll tell me something. Had a conversation with the diesel mechs this morning. I gave em two hrs to tell me what's wrong. They said they could do that. Also, they told me that if the injector pump is gone, then they could do a lot better than the Volvo price of $2500.00 or get mine rebuilt. Then there's the labor to install and retime it. I have no idea how to do this. Still considering the repower if I have to put more thousands into this.....
I think I'd ask for a ballpark to make it right. If in the thousands your money is probably better spent on a new motor. Personally when our md17 has a major problem we will likely re-power with a Beta. I'm undecided on keeping the saildrive but will cross that bridge at a later date. Parts for his vintage are scarce. Let us know what you decide. You can probably get $2-3k for what you have there. SCMark Maulden said:
Some good news (sort of) - I was talked into pulling the injectors which were rebuilt last summer. Every one of them tested bad. Pulled them apart and they were pretty well scored. This is probably why this engine is hard to start...Now the underlying question: How did contaminants get into the fuel? What are/were the contaminants? Is the source still there? It's possible it happened during my rebuild process. I did not cap the outputs of injector pump except laying a (clean)rag across it. I did not cap the high pressure delivery tubes. I just left them in the "parts pile". And being 30 yrs old, there's a lot of paint flaking off. So now, I have every inch of fuel line as new; new primary filter; new lift pump. Now, I think we'll take the high pressure lines and blow compressed air through them into a dark colored clean cloth and then shine a flashlight into the cloth and see if any metal particles shine back. It's also possible that the inner linings of the tubes might be deteriorating. And, since the injectors are out, perform compression test just to have the numbers. New Beta/saildrive is 12K plus install. So I'll mess around with this a bit more....
Put new injectors in today. Yesterday, we blew compressed air through the injector tubes into the rag and saw nothing. However, the outside of one of the high pressure tubes is rusted and will "eventually" need to be replaced. It's out of production but they're available from a guy in NY who stocked up on Volvo parts years ago. $200 apiece. No thanks. I can get it made locally with about an hr labor. So, we soaked em in solvent and blew em clear and pressure tested. Since the injectors were out, I did a compression test. 380/375/400 with about 5 hrs on the "rebuild".. So compression is good. I still don't know what the cause of injector failure(s) was. If it happens again, then the injector pumps comes out and gets rebuilt since (literally) everything else is new. I was turning the engine over after filling with coolant (to burp) and it tried to start. Finished filling and it started in ~5 sec. Did some other things for ~4 hrs and then restarted it. Started instantly. Tomorrow is another acid test. Hopefully, I'm dancing down the dock...
No dock dancing today. The same old hard start and lots of smoke. I didn't even run it. Just closed it up and left. I guess I'm going to have to satisfy my curiosity and yank injectors again and go from there. With FWC, I have to drain coolant and remove heat exchanger and three copper lines. Yesterday, when I ran it, it had a good run under load at the dock for about 20 min. I'm probably going to have to slow this down as I'm due to pull the mast on the 5th.
Decided to try an experiment. The injector return line does not go back to the tank with this engine. It goes back to the secondary filter where the lift pump connects. I disconnected all this and I jury rigged (whatever the term is) a return line into an empty plastic water bottle. There has always been some air at the secondary which has the potential to go through the filter into the injector and back into the return line to the secondary filter and go through the loop again and (again). Wish I could draw a schematic. We'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens.
Well, no effect. I really didn't think there would be but it's one you gotta do. I think next I'm going to disconnect injectors and put several layers of oil absorbent pads across the outlet tubes and turn the engine over and see what comes out on the pads. Pull injectors for a spray test. If everything is good, then that's the way it is and we use the boat. If it's bad then pull the inj pump out and get it checked out and posibbility get it rebuilt along with some new fuel lines to injectors. Wife is saying; BETA/BETA/BETA... I'm saying job/job/job (for her) so I'm open to suggestions at this time as we're getting to the end anyone can chime in here for suggestions. Maybe it just needs to be run for 50 hrs. Also wondering what it would do when temps get warmer. We been working in 35-45 temps.
hey mark
What is the air temp when it is hard to start?
I'm thinking that your great restart is normal for a warm engine and the hard start when cold is also normal (ish) for a cold soaked engine. there is still the issue of the bad injectors. i can assure you that if you just left the high pressure lines in the parts bin they got dirty enough to score the injectors. filtered fuel parts and bearings need to have a "clean as God" type attitude upon resaembly. It ain't a bad idea for the rest of the inards of the engine either!
What is the air temp when it is hard to start?
I'm thinking that your great restart is normal for a warm engine and the hard start when cold is also normal (ish) for a cold soaked engine. there is still the issue of the bad injectors. i can assure you that if you just left the high pressure lines in the parts bin they got dirty enough to score the injectors. filtered fuel parts and bearings need to have a "clean as God" type attitude upon resaembly. It ain't a bad idea for the rest of the inards of the engine either!
Bill, outside temps are around 40-45F. I have blown hot air into the intakes with no difference. Funny thing is when I put the rebuilt injectors in and after I blew lines out etc it started pretty quick. After the run and on the next day, it took a long crank time. So, I know what it could do....I have to take one high press fuel out for replacement cuz of rust (outside) and when I do that, injectors are another 10 min work to remove. The diesel shop said they'd check em again no charge. Can't do that for awhile as the mast gets pulled on Monday for a week. So I need a way to move the boat...