Mast wiring

[MickP]

Have just spent 2 hrs dangling from the mast in a bosun's chair trying to sort out the masthead/steaming (called steaming from now on)light and got nowhere. What i hoped would be a simple bulb replacement has turned into a bit of a headache. I have power at the base of the mast, but not at steaming light where the wires exit the mast. I have tried pulling the existing wires up and down the mast, but they won't shift. I have tried dropping new wires down the mast but there seem to be two routes down the mast: existing wires go down the forward section and i can't get new cable down this section. There is an aft section to the mast and i can drop the cable down this, but it does not exit at the foot of the mast support in the bilge. I am guessing that it is only the forward section that links through to the mast support. So existing wiring is faulty and i can't get new wires in. Anyone any bright ideas?

It's a 1981 hunter 33. Thanks

 

[trainmanjess]

hello

i am not sure this will work, but this is an old electricians trick for replacing wiring in old houses. you need a ball of string, lock washer, and a lead fishing weight. you tie the washer about 4 to 6 inches from the end of the string, and then tie the lead weight to the end of the string. you slip the washer around the electrical wires, and let the string out, the lead weight will carry the string down your mast. the washer keeps the string with the wires, and if it stops, then you have found your electrical problem. should the weigth reach the bottom, now you have the string to pull your new wires up through the mast with. either way it should help you get it fixed or find the problem. tell me how it works for you

sincerely
Jess

 

[Sylvain]

Are you trying to get wires from the mast conduit to the bilge? Without lifting the mast off its footing, you simply can't. The plugs are in the way and the hole isn't that large.

I've seen wiring exiting the mast close to deck level to a deck connector. There's an example on this site.

I take my mast off every winter and hope to have the last bit of old wiring replaced before launch.

 

[Steve Dion]

Have you considered removing the mast and rewiring it. It may be worth a couple hundred to do it right just one time.

With the stick off the boat you can run a fish tape up the pipe and pull new wires

 

[Jim Legere]

I concur with Steve - the way to rewire a mast is when it is horizontal. On the Hunter 37 Cutter, the mast wiring is in a 'conduit' or channel behind the sail track. The sail track actually slides out the bottom of the mast (with diffficulty) to expose the wiring. Not sure if this is the same on your model. But it is definitely easier to work on when the mast is on sawhorses than from a bosun's chair!

 

[MickP]

Jess - yes, we tried this, but the weight didn't appear at the bottom
Sylvain - that might be the problem. I am trying to get the wires down to the bilge. I didn't know there were plugs in the way, but that would explain the difficulty we were having
Jim, Steve - i was hoping to avoid this, but you may be right.

Thanks all

 

[Nelsonhow]

I agree with Jim.

If your mast is a Kenyon the anchor and streaming light wires as well as the antenna wire are in a channel behind the sail tract. With the mast laid horizontal you slide the lower track cover which is below the boom fitting and then can remove the long track out to expose the wires. The wires are held in place with plastic straps pop riveted to the mast. This is why the wires won't move. You may have to remove the boom fitting.

 

[MickP]

Ok, looking like i will need to drop the mast. If i do this, are there any other jobs i should consider doing while it is down?

 

[rivettw]

I assume you checked the ground at the top of the mast also. Had the same problem with mine , just the circuit wasn't completed , the terminal was anodized. Cleaned off, reattatched and bingo. Power.
Just say'in.
Wally

 

[MickP]

thanks Wally,
Yes it did occur to me. There were 3 wires poking out of the mast, one white, two black. I assumed that the white was the common ground, and blacks the two positives (one for masthead, one for deck light). I checked the voltage between each black and the white and got nothing. It could well have been that the ground was bad, but if it was, it must have been the wire so would have needed a new wire anyway

 

[rivettw]

Yeah, the white on mine actually came to the steaming light halfway up the mast, ground screw (which was anodized) then went went to the top for the anchor light ground. Good luck pulling wires.
Just say'in
Wally

 

[Joe23455]

I have a 1980 36 , you are right about the access within the mast and it is
very difficult if not impossible at all to fish wires down the mast and be able to retrive them from below.
The simpleiest way on these deck steped masts is to drop the mast, put it on a set of horses, run a fish, and pull new wire. It's also a great time to check all connections and make any changes.
Pulling fresh wires while the mast is horizontal is even a slight task for the size of the space and internal halyards but no very time consuming anddd
you cab see where the wires are running in the mast.

Regards,

Joe
s/v trinity

 

[Redbeard33]

agreed that it is almost impossible to fish a wire all the way through, After removing the mast step i found that someone had been to lazy to get the appropriate bit and went crazy with a 1/4" bit creating a jagged star shaped hole that the wires barely fit through. If you do pull the stick i would recommend going the "full monty" and doing the job right. These pictures aren't the best angles (from other projects) but you can kinda see what i am talking about. The first shows the plywood core cut out under the mast step, the second shows that area filled with solid epoxy/mat layup. the center of that area was drilled out and a pvc pipe was epoxied into placed creating a real conduit for wire to pass through in the future. the pipe will be left about 4" 'proud' to prevent water intrusion. The mast step had to have the center hole widened slightly to allow the pipe to rest inside. I also cut an access hole about 1.5" x 6" in the starboard side of the mast and will make an access cover for it.
If you pull the stick, i would think it would be silly not to go the extra effort to remove the plywood core and strengthen the area. But I also know people who shop in the bath isle at home depot because "boat caulk cost to much" so i guess its the old adage 'to each their own....'

 

[Redbeard33]

Also in case it wasn't clear in the picture our masts are different from the ones mentioned and the conduit is not behind the sail track it is riveted to the forward side of the mast

 

[MickP]

Redbeard,
Thanks very much for the info, really helpful pictures. I will see how it looks when the mast comes down, and how many pennies left in the (rapidly emptying) piggy bank
Cheers

 

[Ian McGain]

If you pull your mast, go to a hardware store and buy an inexpensive wire pull in the electrical section plus a tube of wire slip. The wire pull will make it possible to pull your wires from top to bottom and the wire slip will make them travel with less friction. If you do not use the existing wires as a replacement lead to travel in the holding tube you run the danger of "Wire slap" inside you mast. When you boat is in your slip or you are on the anchor, the wave action will make your wires inside you mast slap against the mast and make a heck of a noise. To combat this run a foam pipe cover over the wires from the bottom or zip tie large ties as you pull the wires down. You will run into a problem at the spreaders but having the mast on horses make this easy to work on. Might want to conside changing out your spreader lights or deck lighting at this time. Also spend the money and get the correct tinned wire to do the job.

Good luck

Ian

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Mast-wiring conduit

Mick, while you have your mast down, tap out all the sheave pins and re-lube them with white lithium grease (or some more expensive marine equivalent). Don't lose the sheaves inside the extrusion! --I use a lead of tape or wire to lift out and reset each one. Check for halyard chafe in the upper exits. Remove all the shrouds from their tangs or clevises and replace all the cotter pins. Change all the masthead bulbs. I'm sure you can think of other stuff to do at the time.

For my boat I bought a 30' length of PVC outdoor conduit for running wire up the mast (while it was/is horizontal) and found it was a nightmare to work with. I then made a new conduit out of regular 3/4" PVC and found it was way too big. Then I made one out of 1/2" CPVC (smaller schedule) and just barely fit the wires into it but not the VHF cable, which is lashed outside it. Changing of any of these wires would necessitate pulling the whole conduit out with the mast on the ground; but actually this is a pretty easy way to go.

I would like to harness it to the inside of the mast at the few spots that are available (at spreaders and at bottom; it wedges beside the new masthead channel at the top) using SS wire led through the available holes. But even if it's only hung there and left loose like the bit of hose that the factory used it wouldn't be a problem-- it will only dangle amidst the halyards rather than compete with them for position. I also thought of enclosing it in foam pipe insulation, mainly to avoid the slapping noise, but predict that would only lead to a mountain of shredded gray foam at the bottom after no time at all.

The biggest problem is that the conduit really wants to go on port, where the exit is at the bottom; and I had wanted to pop-rivet the storm sail track that side. So I have not installed this yet while I sort this out.

 

[MickP]

Re: Mast-wiring conduit

Ian, Mr Cherubini,
Thanks for your ideas. Unfortunately mast had come down and and gone up again before i read them, but i appreciate the thoughts. For the record, i replaced anchor light and cable, VHF cable, steaming/masthead light and cable and the cotter pins. Next time i will check the sheaves. If i can figure out how to add a picture, i will upload the connection at the base of the mast

 

[MickP]

Hopefully here