Mast Up Winter Storage - Be Careful

Mark Price · Jan 12, 2011

Mast up storage

This past summer I was hit broad side by a straight line wind while at anchor. Until the anchor started dragging it held the boat over at approx 55 degrees. A later check showed the wind in excess of 80 MPH. Not sure any boat on land would have stayed on its stands under those conditions.

Mark

tommays · Jan 12, 2011

Yup

In 2009 the yard owners J160 ? (50') went over so hard it broke a carbon speader and got a bunch of holes punched through the hull by jackstands

A HUGE amount of the interior tabing holding things inside also broke and it cost a LARGE FORTUNE to repair

higgs · Jan 12, 2011

We don't allow boats using stands to keep the mast up.

Eric M · Jan 12, 2011

I wouldn't wish this on anyone and feel for the owner of this boat who is obviously in a very uncomfortable position. I can't tell from the photo exactly what failed allowing the boat to tip over. If the stands didn't move, they must have all punched holes in the side of the boat. This would suggest more stands might have helped. If the stands moved, what allowed them to move, did the chains break? Did the chains break out of the slots in the stands? An unexpected squal can hit pretty much anywhere at pretty much any time so this could have been any of us.
Thanks for sharing any information that is available.

kenn · Jan 12, 2011

Any chance that at least one of the stands was defective or incorrectly set? It's hard to imagine a stand-pad punching through the hull of a 28' boat. (But the weather can do many things that I formally thought hard to imagine...)

There are too many reasons for not leaving the mast up for me to consider it. Even on a big boat, I would be removing it for the chance to perform annual maintenance, and to be able to remove the weather bits, antenna and cover the masthead during storage.

Alan · Jan 12, 2011

I see one HUGE factor not being looked at here. Consider the projected surface area of the spar then consider the projected surface area of the shrink wrap. I'll wager the shrink wrap had a far larger load factor on flipping this boat than the bare mast. The shrink wrap as it appears probably has a similar surface area as a reefed main. A gust of 60+ would easily knock down a boat on a broad reach with a sheeted in reefed main.

Don S/V ILLusion · Jan 12, 2011

It is probably worthwhile to mention for those new to boating that this is not a common occurrence. Clearly, it can happen but there is a trade-off here. That being, I'd guess that far more boats and particularly masts and hardware get damaged in stepping and "un-stepping" masts than are damaged by falling off stands.

I'm sure Mainesail didn't intend to imply this is a typical result from storing a boat with the mast up.

Stories about infrequent or freak accidents abound. Every sailor should make his own judgment which chance he/she is willing to take considering the yard's ability to do the work and step the mast, the complexities of mast wiring which sometimes doesn't lend itself to simple disconnection and replacement, rigging and hardware storage, proper mast storage, the owner's ability to routinely inspect the mast hardware for deterioration, the location of the yard considering winter weather patterns and obviously the policy of the storage yard regarding mast storage. No guarantees either way or everyone would do the same thing(s).

Scott T-Bird · Jan 12, 2011

Alan, I was thinking the same thing. I'd be much more concerned about the shrinkwrap than the rigging. I also agree that the orientation must make a difference. I often drive by the marina in the winter only to feel relief after some of the wind storms. I have a custom cover on our boat that is obviously supported by the mast and boom. I am just glad that there are several boats immediately around me ... boats on racks and trailers ... that break the wind.

tommays · Jan 12, 2011

I have been at a mast up yard in a wind storm before the boats were shrink warped and you could see the amount of stress the mast windage was putting into the hull and jackstands

It was a pretty relentless vibration which could have loosened the handles on the stands jackscrews which use to happen on my first J24 trailer if you did not tie them off the boat would fall off if you drove long enough

Roger Long · Jan 12, 2011

Maine Sail said:
P.S. Roger Long at one point you had done the calculations of the windage on your bare spars. Do you still have that data?

That part of the calculations was too crude to be much use in this discussion.

There is obviously tremendous leverage for whatever windage there is on mast and rigging which can be considerable. The center of gravity of the boat is also considerably raised which puts more weight on the lee jackstands when the boat starts to shift.

I suspect a significant factor is the dynamics and the small motions caused by the rig with it's wind excitations, all the resonant stuff that keeps us awake at anchor sometimes. I think the jackstands in these cases are often worked out of position bit by bit instead of being simply overwhelmed.

Ed H · Jan 12, 2011

Maine Sail said:
The only difference between this boat and all the other mast up boats is that this one faced beam to the prevailing winter winds and the others faced bow or stern to..

I notice in that first photo that the boat was placed with the stern close to the fence. Were they concerned more with packing in the maximum number of boats, instead of the direction of the prevailing winds?

gettinthere · Jan 12, 2011

We have at least 50 mast-up boats, mostly on jack stands, every winter. Nothing has happened...yet! Hopefully this is my last winter!

MS, you better not have jinxed me!!!

Rick486 · Jan 13, 2011

Why don't power boats, trawlers in particular, fall over during storage? One reason may be thatt hull form and direction of the force vectors created by the jack stands undoubtedly enters into this equation as well. Some yards use jack stand which are relatively long, applying the pad at a steeper angle to the hull surface than others. A more vertical force vector aids in stability. At my boat yard there are very large power boats (60 ft +) with flybridges to the sky, all shrink wrapped with huge windage - much more than my mast and shrink wrap, which are not blown over. Ever. Examination of the jack stands beneath shows the pads almost horizontal, directing the force vector in the vertical direction. On my boat the stands are not as vertical as the power boats but certainly below the turn of the bilge. When the stands are very long and the pads trend to the vertical, the load on the stand has a large horizontal component, which can be transferred to the chain, which in most cases is very light and very rusted. In MS's pic above, the stands do appear to me to be quite long. The jackstand manufacturer (name escapes me) maintains an informative web page which discusses some of these issues. Worth a look.

Rick486 · Jan 13, 2011

Just remembered. The manufacturer is Brownell. Here is what I believe is their write-up.
Brownell Boat Stand Selection Guide
Choosing The Right Stand For Your Boat
Type: The correct type of boat stand (sailboat vs. motorboat) is determined by the angle between the hull and the stands center pipe. The threaded rod from the top that enters the stands center pipe should do so at approximately a 90 deg angle to the boats hull. For example, a motor boat with a deep vee bow would use a pair of sailboat stands at the bow, with motor boat stands at the stern.
Size: To determine the proper Brownell Boat Stands to use, you first must realize the boat stands are to stabilize your boat and the keel blocking supports the boats weight. A simple method would be to take the draft of the boat (in inches), add the height of the blocking pile, and subtract about six inches. Base your decision on keeping a minimum amount of thread exposed on the top.
Number Required: A minimum of four boat stands should be used with powerboats and a minimum of five boat stands should be used with sailboats. One exception: a full keel sailboat may not require a bow stand. Use a pair of boat stands, one placed port and one placed starboard, for approximately each 8 feet of the boat's length. If you are going to be stored in an extremely windy area or leaving a sailboat mast stepped, extra boat stands should be used in addition to our minimum requirements.
Liability: Because the performance and safety of boat stands is dependent on the way they are used, the manufacturer assumes no liability beyond the purchase price of the boat stands.
How to Use
Port/Starboard Sides: When ready to use Brownell Boat Stands you must choose an area to store the boat that offers hard, stable ground to prevent the sinking of keel blocking and boat stands. Boat stands should be placed outboard on the hull for stability. The boat stand tops should have minimum thread exposed with the threaded rod placed as close to per pendicular as possible to the hull. To guarantee the threaded rod being close to perpendicular, the boat stand base rear legs are placed so they are parallel with the waterline. The boat stand is placed square to the hull (not twisted fore or aft) with the boat stand top on the flat of the hull for stability.
Bow and/or Stern: Most sailboats require a bow stand with a Vee top to prevent the bow from dropping forward. The exception to the rule might be a full keel sailboat that is not "bow heavy". Any excessive overhang in the stern requires two additional boat stands port and starboard on the after portion of the boat.
Safety Chains: When using safety chain for sailboat stands, the port (or starboard whichever comes first) boat stand is placed in position with the boat stand top snug against the hull. A 3/16" chain is placed in the safety chain notch of this boat stand and the chain is passed athwartship either before, after or under the keel to the starboard, or opposite boat stand chain notch. The starboard boat stand is placed in its approximate position but not snugged tight against the hull at-first; the chain is pulled tight and placed in the starboard Boat stand chain notch. Once snug in the chain notch, pull the starboard boat stand outboard until the chain is snug. Tighten the boat stand top, making sure the rear legs of both boat stands are parallel to the hull. Use safety chains and repeat this procedure for all side sailboat stands to prevent the boat stands from sliding up a boat's hull.
Keel Blocking: We always recommend a minimum of 2 blocking piles placed on hard, stable ground to carry the boat's weight. Each blocking pile consists of 3 blocks, i.e. two base blocks facing fore and aft running parallel to each other, and one block placed across the two base blocks for the keel to rest on. This method has proven to reduce sinking of the blocks. For each blocking pile we suggest 2 of our B-8 (8"x8"x22") pine blocks for the base blocks and 1 of our B-6 (6"x6"x22") pine plocks placed across the base blocks. Higher or lower blocking piles can be used depending on how the boat drains, however, the lower to the ground, the better. More blocking piles should be added as necessary depending on the condition and length of the keel Maintenance: Boat stands and blocks should be checked on a regular basis while your boat is being stored. Make sure the boat stands are snug against the hull and the keel blocks are supporting the keel and not sinking into the ground. Also check the blocks for rotting or splitting. Do not tie tarps to the Boat Stands. During windy conditions, check more frequently for proper boat shoring and security of our boat stands while they are stabilizing your boat. When not in use, we recommend lubricating the threaded rod section of our Tops (WD40 or axle grease may be used) and storing in a cool dry place. Our nestable and stackable boat stand bases should be kept painted with rust preventative paint. Moisture and salt creep up from the ground and corrosion may start from the boat stand base bottom up. Replace any badly rusted boat stands or rotted blocks, safety is jeopardized.

Select 3/16 inch chain for use as safety chain on sailboats.
Minimum of 4 boat stands per boat, spaced no more than 8 feet apart fore and aft
Boat must be supported on block piles under keel, using stands for balance only
A selection of stand sizes are available

BRAND: Brownell Type: Boat Stands

Ed Schenck · Jan 13, 2011

I like Don's discussion of why many of us choose to store with mast up. He leaves out one important issue, cost. It is at least and additional $300. per season. And because my mast is keel-stepped I lose more paint each time. Fortunately I have a very secure cradle, not poppits. And this winter the mast is down, second time in twelve years.

Tim R. · Jan 13, 2011

Alan said:
I see one HUGE factor not being looked at here. Consider the projected surface area of the spar then consider the projected surface area of the shrink wrap. I'll wager the shrink wrap had a far larger load factor on flipping this boat than the bare mast. The shrink wrap as it appears probably has a similar surface area as a reefed main. A gust of 60+ would easily knock down a boat on a broad reach with a sheeted in reefed main.

I would disagree. I have been living on our boat now for 4 months and the shrink wrap cover(mast down) extends 6 ft. off the deck. The heel created from wind is much less than when the bare mast was up. It has more to do with the length of the lever(mast) than with the surface area(cover)

BTW, my mast comes down every year and is stored inside. It is like new and I plan to keep it that way.

pogo2 · Jan 14, 2011

Mast up

I've stored my newport 30 with the mast up for the last 7 years, I did store it twice with the mast down so I could work on it. I feel that the plcement of the boat to the prevalling winds has a lot to do with how it reacts to the weather. My boat has a custom cover and is set in a cradle, being in a cradle i feel is a lot sturdier than the stands, but by no means is it safe. Several years ago we had 4 boat in cradles do the domino fall over, some had their mast up and some didn't, it had to do with their placement against the winds coming off Lake Erie 95 mph winter winds and snow.

Mast Up Winter Storage - Be Careful

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