Mast rail
- Thread starter GrantBrown
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,041
The running lines in your image do not look to bad. Looks like a halyard along the mast. A boom vang running from boom to mast base. Not sure what the line with the bowline is doing attached to the boom .
Structurally I think the lines are ok but they are very stiff from not being used. I would like to take down the halyard. I've heard soaking it in a light detergent will help. Do you have a trick to splice some smaller line to the halyard so I don't loose that path through the rigging?
Understood, that's fine. At least you have a decent foundation to start. Sails, running rigging, etc., are wear items. It is so great to have new sails!
When you say shackles what are you referring to?
The traditional way of attaching that smaller line - in this case called a messenger - to a halyard is to have a Flemish eye spliced into the end of the halyard, and then just tie the messenger to this.
This is typically an eye splice with no core in the eye. However, splicing old lines can be very difficult. In that case I would use an electrician's wire pulling basket, that once cinched up was taped to the halyard, and then the messenger tied and taped as well.
If you buy new halyards I recommend Flemish eyes on both ends.
Soaking the line in detergent will help for sure but I've found it more satisfying to just order new halyards. If you remove your old line without a replacement, then you will need to have a messenger line for sure. Just secure the butt ends the best you can. There are several techniques ... whipping line spliced through both ends works. Some use paper clips passed through both ends, wrapped in tape. I've been successful simply butting ends together and wrapping it with tape, but I've also lost a line that way and it was a pia to get a new line back in place. I think you should always wrap the lines together with tape, even when securing mechanically, just to get the line to pass smoothly through tight areas, but you have to be careful not to make too big of a wad of tape.
If you are removing an old halyard and simultaneously replacing it with new, be sure to pay attention to the direction you are pulling the line. Obviously, you aren't going to pass a spliced end through the masthead, so it is probably necessary to cut off the old spliced end to lead the new whipped end through first. If you use a halyard knot instead of a spliced end with shackle, then you have no such concerns.
Great info on the "electrician's wire pulling basket". I'll have to look that up. The shackle I was referring to is the little plastic shackle attaching the sails grommet to the mast sliders. I'm still trying to learn all the lingo.
I know this is what the reeving eye is for, but I'm not a fan. First, the flemish eye has no strength and you can never attach a shackle to it once the halyard is in place, so it is useless once you are done. Second, I've never felt that it is possible to easily pass a spliced eye through the sheaves at the masthead. They are simply too thick. I don't know why it would be considered as simple and straight forward as attaching 2 butt ends with stitching and tape to get a line to pass easily through the sheaves. I could be missing something about it, though!
Yea, those are not shackles. They are often called "hanks" on a headsail as in "hanking" your sail when you raise it. If you have a jib that isn't on roller furling and you have to attach it, that is done with hanks. Your mainsail simply has slides or slugs that are typically sewn onto the bolt rope. It sounds like you have grommets instead of a bolt rope, so the attachment may be some kind of connector that I don't know how to name!
Some old time mainsails don't even use slugs, the bolt rope is simply passed into the track.Putting your sail on the mast initially is something different, though ... that's called "bending" your sail. We typically only do that once in the spring (for us northerners).
Back to shackles - this typically refers to a pretty beefy metal connector between sail and lines, such as halyards and sheets. Soft shackles are made from very strong line, though!
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,041
New halyards are always delightful. It will get you 5 or so years of enjoyment.
I agree with the Butt Splice suggested by @Scott T-Bird . It has served me well through the years. The key for me was to get a few long stitches beyond the butt ends so I could be sure of stitching through solid line. It is also more flexible. You are going to pull the line up, and through a sheave block at the top of the mast, then make a 90º turn and come down the outside of the mast. There needs to be a little flexibility in the line and the system secure. Be sure to get line no larger than what is currently there. When you pull the halyard does it feel like it moves through the sheave at the mast head smoothly?
If not smooth you might reduce the size of the halyard by a 1/16". Halyards need a given amount of strength and low stretch, but once the sail is raised become a static line. You need the larger good feel in your sheets. Feel in line comes from the material , the way it is formed and the diameter of the line.
If you are budget minded, you can use the bucket and liquid dish soap wash to get the dirt and accumulated salts out of the lines, Not a bad job to do when you have the time and a nice day to sit at the marina.
I agree with the Butt Splice suggested by @Scott T-Bird . It has served me well through the years. The key for me was to get a few long stitches beyond the butt ends so I could be sure of stitching through solid line. It is also more flexible. You are going to pull the line up, and through a sheave block at the top of the mast, then make a 90º turn and come down the outside of the mast. There needs to be a little flexibility in the line and the system secure. Be sure to get line no larger than what is currently there. When you pull the halyard does it feel like it moves through the sheave at the mast head smoothly?
If not smooth you might reduce the size of the halyard by a 1/16". Halyards need a given amount of strength and low stretch, but once the sail is raised become a static line. You need the larger good feel in your sheets. Feel in line comes from the material , the way it is formed and the diameter of the line.
If you are budget minded, you can use the bucket and liquid dish soap wash to get the dirt and accumulated salts out of the lines, Not a bad job to do when you have the time and a nice day to sit at the marina.
No, a hank is this ... Jib Hank #2 Wire to 7/16"
You are probably right to call your example a "shackle" (Sail Rite does).
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,041
Sail hanks come in many flavors.
The one you show is one that appears to need the screw remove each time you want to put is on the forestay. This means you would have the sail on the forestay 24/7 exposed to the marine environment.
Not my first choice to keep the sail fresh and ready for action.
The one you show is one that appears to need the screw remove each time you want to put is on the forestay. This means you would have the sail on the forestay 24/7 exposed to the marine environment.
Not my first choice to keep the sail fresh and ready for action.
Yes. It looks nicer. And it will last longer, as the dirt on it will tend to wear it out quicker, or so I'm told. There are services that do this. Don't just put it in a washing machine! Also, avoid heat.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,041
Sure. It gets you playing with your sail material. You may find that it is stiff and holds a shape with little thread issues. On the other hand on close inspection you may find it needs the attention of a sail loft with a good sail maker.
II washed all of my sails when I first got my boat, I found that they where getting to the age when they would need replacement, but still usable for sailing in my local waters. I treated both sails to a loft visit where 150 for the main and 300 for the genoa rewarded me with a couple years of sailing pleasure.
The wash made the sails look a little better. It did nothing to revive old cloth or the stretches that occur as sails age and wind stretches the cloth. Eventually, we all have to say. I want better sails. Then after the sticker shock wears off we open the wallet and release the moths.
The experience of raising new sails on your boat is almost as good as sex.
II washed all of my sails when I first got my boat, I found that they where getting to the age when they would need replacement, but still usable for sailing in my local waters. I treated both sails to a loft visit where 150 for the main and 300 for the genoa rewarded me with a couple years of sailing pleasure.
The wash made the sails look a little better. It did nothing to revive old cloth or the stretches that occur as sails age and wind stretches the cloth. Eventually, we all have to say. I want better sails. Then after the sticker shock wears off we open the wallet and release the moths.
The experience of raising new sails on your boat is almost as good as sex.
Argument for new sails (aside from sending the sailmaker's kids to college) is it makes the boat sail better. Old, bagged out sails that don't hold their wing shape make you heal over without pushing you forward. If buying a new-to-me boat, I assume that all sails need replacement unless the seller shows me a receipt less than five-years old.
Washing -
Sails: lay them out in the driveway, apply cold water and mild detergent (boat wash or car wash are great), and broom like hell. Try not to walk on them. Rinse.
Halyards: put in a large lingerie bag (to avoid all the twists), and pop them in your washing machine with Woolite and fabric softener on the rinse cycle. Hang out to dry, and NEVER machine dry. You can also do your dock lines at the same time. Most of your stiffness is probably salt or dirt, and it washes away. If you don't want to take down the halyard, you can get about halfway there with a 5-gallon bucket and mild detergent, half of the line still on the mast. Not great, but you get about a third of the halyard done at each end.
Washing -
Sails: lay them out in the driveway, apply cold water and mild detergent (boat wash or car wash are great), and broom like hell. Try not to walk on them. Rinse.
Halyards: put in a large lingerie bag (to avoid all the twists), and pop them in your washing machine with Woolite and fabric softener on the rinse cycle. Hang out to dry, and NEVER machine dry. You can also do your dock lines at the same time. Most of your stiffness is probably salt or dirt, and it washes away. If you don't want to take down the halyard, you can get about halfway there with a 5-gallon bucket and mild detergent, half of the line still on the mast. Not great, but you get about a third of the halyard done at each end.