Mast creaking

Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
I’ve had my O’Day 28, keel stepped mast, for about 4 years now. I try to keep the stays adjusted so they’re tight on all points of sail. I’ve noticed lately that when in the cabin and under sail I can hear the mast squeaking or creaking where it goes through the deck. I’m thinking it’s moving slightly and it’s the, I don’t know what the name is, the rubber filler between the mast and mast hole sides. Anyway, I’m wondering if I’m not making the stays tight enough. Hoping someone can either say honestly that this is no problem or advise to tighten the stays.
 
Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
Thanks for your reply, Justsome guy. There may already be wedges in there. I can’t tell because the area is filled with what appears to be poured in rubber, pretty thick and hard. There are no water leaks at all. I’ve thought about spraying some sailkote lube in there but I’m not sure if it should be moving at all.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,523
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
There are certainly loads on the mast that will cause side to side and/or fore to aft stress where the mast enters the hull. So some creaking noise seems natural as the stress varies with the wind load on the mast.

I defer to others for more definitive thoughts, but would ask if the mast is moving, how much is the movement (strain)?
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,990
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Without a way to determine your standing rigging's tension, I'm hesitant to say "crank down on those turnbuckles" so, sure, try some squeek remover.
 
Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
Shrouds are tight enough that there is no slack on the leeward side of the mast. I used a Loos gauge but the tension was very low, nowhere near the suggested numbers. I never tightened to the suggested number on the gauge because all the documentation I’ve seen on shroud tension for an O’Day 28 says to tighten sufficiently to remove slack from side opposite the wind.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
It sounds like a previous owner installed a "pour-in-place" mast "wedge", I think "SPAR-TITE" is the brand, and it does a good job of sealing the gap between mast and deck(partner). If your leeward shrouds don't go slack at all while sailing, I suspect your shrouds are too tight based on my long sailing experience. That "creaking' may be the deck flexing up and down against the mast as the tension of the rig pulls up and in from the windward side and the mast pushes down and thus squeezes the hull and deck causing the deck and cabin trunk to be pushed up from the forces. I used to be able to watch the pull of the windward shroud deflect the side of my Widgeon due to those forces since the re-enforcing in the athwartship seat that the mast went through had long since broken free (fixed when I added a stowage compartment ahead of that seat, bulkhead added restored rigidity).
 
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Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Your leeward shrouds should be tight in 12 or 13 knots of wind. More wind and they will slacken. The Loos gauge settings typically have them a little slack and you adjust them by sailing and tacking and taking up a half turn at a time on each side until the desired tension. Mast should be centered side to side and with a touch of rake noted in the owners manual before you sail and set final tension.
 
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Nov 3, 2010
564
Oday 39 Lake mills WI
If you tack back and forth and keep tightening the lee shrouds each time you will drive the mast through your boat. Nothing wrong with the shrouds on the lee side being a bit loose. Follow Jibes instructions above.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Check your manufacturer’s recommendations. Some boats sail better with a loose rig rather then the tight guitar strumming tension on the rig.
Holding up in vertical column is important.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
According to what I have learned researching this topic, your shrouds should never be loose. There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that a loose shroud could come loose from the spreader, and you could lose the rig. But the most important reason is that when a shroud is loose, if it suddenly tightens up due to a gust or accidental jibe or other condition, the shock load could break it, when if it was tight this wouldn't happen. Current wisdom is that, for wire or rod rigging, the cap shrouds should be at about 15% of breaking strength, and intermediates and lowers at 10%. When set this way the leeward shrouds will never go slack. They will also not be in danger of snapping due to a shock load.

There is a lot of lore about shroud tension that is just wrong. Loose leeward shrouds is one such piece of lore that is a mistake.

Best to get the mast in column and tighten the caps equally to achieve 15% breaking strength, then the intermediates at 10%, then the lowers at 10%. Fore and aft lowers are treated similarly, usually forward ones first.

Take a look at this book, "Illustrated Sail and Rig Tuning," by Ivan Dedekam:

https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-...1535849589&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=ivan+dedekam
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,923
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
If I tried to get my rig so tight that my leeward shrouds were NEVER loose, I'd probably pull the chainplates right off the gunwales as soon as the wind hit the sails, either that or the mast would drive the compression pipe right through the bottom of the boat! Never mind that it would take use of locking pliers or something just to turn the turnbuckle nuts to even approach that tension! My rig is tight when boat is at rest (as was the rig of every previous boat I've sailed) but the leeward shroud will still go slack while beating to windward or close reaching, Forestay will often go slack on a good downwind run.
Owners Manual states: "After all stays are attached, take the slack out of the rigging by tightening all stays taut, but no more than hand tight." Then adds the following: "CAUTION: It is very important that you do not tighten the stays too much, as this can cause damage to the hull and deck."
Pretty much all O'DAYs carried the same tuning instructions, and that caution about NOT tightening too much. On larger models with upper and lower shrouds the advice was to have the uppers tighter than the lowers due to added length, thus greater chance of stretch.


My Shrouds will never come loose from the spreader tips since I have them properly seized into the slots with stainless-steel wire. The amount of slack in my leeward shrouds would never be enough to cause a shock-load even in a sudden gybe. Maybe your TARTAN is stiffer than our old O'DAY boats (or any older boat, like my old CAL 21), but I would NEVER want the rig on any of my boats to be anywhere near as tight as you are advocating, too much strain on everything! I don't want my boat to fold up like 2 of the America's Cup Class boats did, one in 1992 (Australian) and one in 1995 (US) the Aussie boat sank almost immediately, the US boat was saved by a tightened boom-vang that kept the aft half of the boat from completely folding up. We are talking CRUISING boats here in this forum, NOT high-tech RACING MACHINES! Even Racers usually slack off most of that excess tension in their rigs between race days to avoid damage to the boat and rigging.
 
Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
I have a 28 and find no reference to a pin through the mast on the outside. I have attached photos of the collar inside the cabin with a bolt through the mast and pages from my owners manual speaking about it. It states this is to keep the deck from flexing but if the plate the mast sits on deteriorates I think the deck would sink around the mast hole.
 

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Aug 17, 2010
311
Oday 35 Barrington
I have a 28 and find no reference to a pin through the mast on the outside. I have attached photos of the collar inside the cabin with a bolt through the mast and pages from my owners manual speaking about it. It states this is to keep the deck from flexing but if the plate the mast sits on deteriorates I think the deck would sink around the mast hole.
There are 3 pages from the commissioning/owner's manual that precede the two that you posted. These three pages and the two that you have posted are included in the PDF that I linked to above.

Here are the instructions from the PDF in the thread that I linked to above, which was provided by O'DAY YACHTS that address the REQUIREMENT for the mast pin if you have an O'day 28, 30, 34 (therefore 35) or 39 with an Isomat mast. I have added that Butyl sealant is an acceptable substitute for silicone.

"O'DAY YACHTS WITH ISOMAT SPARS
Mast Wedge and Pin Instructions

These instructions are for installation of the mast boot, wedges, and deck pin on O‘Day Yachts equipped with Isomat spars.

l. Before stepping mast, slip neoprene collar over the mast and up to the gooseneck. The smaller end goes on first.
2. After stepping mast, and before final tuning of the shrouds, install the rubber wedges between the collar and mast.
3. After final tuning, and a short sail in light-to-moderate winds, drill a l/2" hole through the mast, just above the collar. Install the l/2" stainless steel pin through the spar and fix in position with cotter pin. This pin will hold the deck from flexing. It is important that it be installed. The pin should be fust forward (approximately l/2") at the extruded niche in the side of the mast.
4. Silicone (or Butyl) sealant must be placed around the mast and mast collar where the clamp will tighten. Be sure to fill the spinnaker track and mainsail track grooves well with silicone (or Butyl) sealant. The rubber boot is clamped around the collar and the mast. For the top clamp, leave enough boot to roll it back over the clamp.

Illustration 1 - see the PDF

Illustration 2 - see the PDF

STEPPING AND TUNING THE MAST
Before stepping the mast, be sure all running and standing rigging is properly installed, cotter pins are spread, and halyard sheaves are free to rotate. The upper shroud is run through the slot in the outboard end of the spreader. After the shroud is in place, tape over the end of the spreader to protect the sails. Check the spar lights to be sure they are operational.

Open all turnbuckles to their full extension.

Refer to separate sheet for mast-collar instructions.

Step the spar through the deck and table (if applicable), and then onto the mast step. Be careful not to pinch the mast wires during the stepping. The mast step was set at the factory to provide an aft rake. If you wish to adjust this, loosen the mast—step bolts and slide the step fore or aft.

The mast—ground wire should be attached to the mast at this time.

Attach all the shrouds, tighten the headstay, backstay, and upper shrouds to a taut condition. Refer to the mast-collar drawings to install the rubber wedges, mast pin, and boot.

Installation of the pin is essential to prevent the deck from lifting, when full rigging forces are applied. Do not sail until this pin is properly installed. For now, leave the lower shrouds slack. Attach a weight to the main halyard and allow it to hang freely. Adjust the headstay and backstay to achieve a straight spar, when sighting up the trailing edge.
O'Day 37 - 12"; O'Day 34/35 - 8"; O'Day 30 - 9"; O'Day 28 - 7";
aft of the spar, when measured at the gooseneck. Next, with the boat level athwartships, tighten the upper shrouds to get the mast straight. Finally, tighten the lowers no more than hand tight.

Final tuning must be accomplished while sailing. In a light breeze (6 - 8 knots), adjust the shrouds to achieve a straight spar on either tack. In heavier winds, any curvature should be gradual and constant from the deck to the mast head.

The rig will need adjustment after a few sails to compensate for the stretch in the wire. Be sure to install cotter pins in all turnbuckles and cflevhspins, and tape over them to prevent injury to crew or damage to sails.

Fine tuning for the best performance will depend upon your local conditions and your sails. Consult your dealer or local sailmaker for their suggestions.

DANGER: WHEN YOU ARE HAULING, LAUNCHING, AND SAILING NEAR LOW OVERHEAD WIRES, YOU MUST BE VERY CAREFUL THAT THE MAST DOES NOT TOUCR THE WIRES. THE MAST COULD CONTACT HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRICITY TO THE PEOPLE ON BOARD AND CAUSE SEVERE BURNS OR DEATH. THE BOAT’S LIGHTNING GROUND SYSTEM WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM THE HIGH VOLTAGE POWER FROM POWER LINES.

CHALNPLATE RODS
O'DAY 28, 30, 34/35, 39
The chainplate rod system used on the shrouds of your boat is designed to carry rigging loads to the structural floor pan. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE INSTALLATION BE CHECKED FOR PROPER ROD TENSION. The system is designed to carry rigging loads to the pan, rather than the deck.

After the boat is launched and the spars installed, but before the rigging is tightened, the rods should be taut. Pulling on the rod, at mid—height from pan to deck, you should notice a very slight deflection. If the rod is loose, it should be tightened. After final rigging andzifew early sailings, recheck the rod tension. If the deck is deflecting at the chainplates, the rod needs further adjustment.

To tighten the rod, remove the cap on the pan at the base of the rod and get a wrench on the nut. Above the pan is a flat spot on the rod. Use another wrench or locking pliers to turn the rod. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. If the rods are too tight, with the rigging slack, the deck could be pulled down, creating a depression on deck and damage to the gelcoat surface.

The U-bolt, to which the turnbuckle attaches, is bolted through the deck to an aluminum plate that holds the top of the rod. Annually, the U-bolt should be disassembled and rebedded. When reinstalling, tighten the U-bolt nuts to a snug condition. Again,do not overtighten, or you will damage the deck finish. After reinstalling the U-bolt, be sure to check the chainplate rod tension."
 
Last edited:
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I have a 28 and find no reference to a pin through the mast on the outside. I have attached photos of the collar inside the cabin with a bolt through the mast and pages from my owners manual speaking about it. It states this is to keep the deck from flexing but if the plate the mast sits on deteriorates I think the deck would sink around the mast hole.
What year is your 28? Ours from '85 had nothing like that, just a horizontal pin that rested on the top of the deck plate. I also remember our manual having the "Installation of the pin is essential to prevent the deck from lifting" statement that eherlihy referenced.
 
Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
My boat is a 1981. My mast is a Kenyon. I don’t think one system is any better than the other, just that the engineers chose a different path to accomplish the same thing.