Ascender, Jumar, Prusik knot, etc..
At least, I think that's what thinwater's talking about...
Mast Climbing - How much is too much
- Thread starter atwhite2
- Start date
At least, I think that's what thinwater's talking about...
thats what i use ....and i didn't learn it from the movie..... been using it for 50 years
it has a built in safety/break feature that is when you need to stop or slow down coming descending all you have to do is grab the 4 lines in your hand and it will stop and hold you in that spot
Ascenders? Belay devices?
Unless you are a current climber, this stuff is complex and dangerous to use without proper training. In that case, stick with the stuff you already know; halyards, winches, and bosons chairs. Use proper seamanlike practices and you'll be fine. If you are personally worried, or not sure your rigging and hardware is in good order, it's time for a pro.
Unless you are a current climber, this stuff is complex and dangerous to use without proper training. In that case, stick with the stuff you already know; halyards, winches, and bosons chairs. Use proper seamanlike practices and you'll be fine. If you are personally worried, or not sure your rigging and hardware is in good order, it's time for a pro.
Someone mention on this thread of weight strain on the sheaves in the mast crane.
Speaking of this, I had a scare I found myself in. I used my Top Climber 4 times one weekend doing steaming light changeout, spreader boots & Windex/antenna changeout a few years back. On my 4th. trip up, I discovered that my cast aluminum crane had a vertical full top-to-bottom crack along where one sheave shaft 1/4 to 5/16"" dia. was attached w/cotter pin.
There I was, almost 50 feet up & my crane had failed. Oh let me tell ya, it was a scary trip back down. After dropping the mast, I discovered the shaft had also bent. Now, I only weigh in @ 150# & yet, my crane had failed. Could this cause me to fall, I don't know. Was there a chance of this happening?
I assume I was not the only one to climb the mast, as I had a rigger go up before. But, this is just something to think about.
About rope & tensile strength, here's a link to various charts that may help.
https://www.google.com/search?q=rop...kI424ggSd84HoCg&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1106&bih=509
CR
Speaking of this, I had a scare I found myself in. I used my Top Climber 4 times one weekend doing steaming light changeout, spreader boots & Windex/antenna changeout a few years back. On my 4th. trip up, I discovered that my cast aluminum crane had a vertical full top-to-bottom crack along where one sheave shaft 1/4 to 5/16"" dia. was attached w/cotter pin.
There I was, almost 50 feet up & my crane had failed. Oh let me tell ya, it was a scary trip back down. After dropping the mast, I discovered the shaft had also bent. Now, I only weigh in @ 150# & yet, my crane had failed. Could this cause me to fall, I don't know. Was there a chance of this happening?
I assume I was not the only one to climb the mast, as I had a rigger go up before. But, this is just something to think about.
About rope & tensile strength, here's a link to various charts that may help.
https://www.google.com/search?q=rop...kI424ggSd84HoCg&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=1106&bih=509
CR
Maybe I should've added that at the time, I had external halyards. After my adventure, they are now internal.
CR
CR
Because, like sail trim, details are for books and classes.
Yes, tying differing ropes together (diameter or material) introduces some challenges. Tying 7/16" nylon to 5/16" Dyneema, for example, is one of those. My first choice would be to thread the climbing rope through the halyard splice, if there is room. But as we see, there probably is not a one-size-fits-all answer, and a second safety line is needed if anything abou the primary is less than perfect.
The second reason not give too many details in a forum post is that someone may think they have full information, when they do not.
Yes, You would have decked out. And that is why a second line is required.
In the example I gave it was an internal halyard; when the block failed the line dropped onto the aluminum edge and cut through.
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Climbing can be safe. You've just to make sure you've taken all of the bullets out of the gun.
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As for using "seamanlike methods," one crew of the Appledore was killed a little over a year ago when the belayer let some slack develop on the winch. The turns popped off and he decked. A climbing belay device would have prevented that, since they are designed to prevent lose of control in the event that the belayer is knocked around or slack happens (it does). Google it. I think you will find that the safety record of rock climbing and vertical access methods and "seaman like" methods are very different. Per trip, vertical access (OSHA) methods are far more robust.
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Yes, a block and tackle makes perfect sense. It is sometimes done that way. But a second safety line is still required.
Thin,
Yea, I agree with you pal.
My story here in thinking, here's what I thought could have happened to me with the cracked crane.
The initial crack happened at the front sheave. What if the crane now being stressed, developed the same type of crack along the rear sheave? Remember this is cast aluminum, not the strongest material against structural failure.
With external halyards, had the whole side failed, there was a distinct possibility of the halyard rolling off the sheaves & now nothing to stop the rope from falling to the deck, with me attached.
People are killed every year with going up the mast, both experts & owners as you had described. I still think that folks new to mast climbing, should have experienced people to show them the "Ropes" first & then go in stages while they are learning.
Sheaves & shafts are designed to raise sails, maybe not the more weighted people.
CR
Yea, I agree with you pal.
My story here in thinking, here's what I thought could have happened to me with the cracked crane.
The initial crack happened at the front sheave. What if the crane now being stressed, developed the same type of crack along the rear sheave? Remember this is cast aluminum, not the strongest material against structural failure.
With external halyards, had the whole side failed, there was a distinct possibility of the halyard rolling off the sheaves & now nothing to stop the rope from falling to the deck, with me attached.
People are killed every year with going up the mast, both experts & owners as you had described. I still think that folks new to mast climbing, should have experienced people to show them the "Ropes" first & then go in stages while they are learning.
Sheaves & shafts are designed to raise sails, maybe not the more weighted people.
CR
So, is it permanently attached to the masthead, or do raise it up on a halyard?
What kind of blocks do you use? Does anyone sell them specific for this type of application?
I sail alone a lot, and hate relying on others for help like checking out e mast, etc. seems like this would be a great way to do it.
Greg
they are raised with a halyard and tied with a bowline
the blocks are fiddle blocks that accommodate 3/8 line ...harkin, schaffer and ronstan sell them rigging them this way gives you a 4 to 1 purchase
it is best to always have someone help you and tail the safety line...... never do it alone you may need some one to call the medics or coroner
the blocks are fiddle blocks that accommodate 3/8 line ...harkin, schaffer and ronstan sell them rigging them this way gives you a 4 to 1 purchase
it is best to always have someone help you and tail the safety line...... never do it alone you may need some one to call the medics or coroner
There are some advantages to being a risk taker. I always have the halyard secured to my self in two independent ways (bosun chair and safety loop). I've not thought that the halyard holding me up was much of a risk and so I do not think that my strapping 155 lb mass is going to even marginally approach the working load of either the mast head blocks (1500 lb) or halyard (3000 lb).
I would tell you that the most important thing is to have the First Mate well briefed on what is expected of them. I had an incident with the former (and now divorced) first mate. she got me up the mast with help from the proginey of 3 boys and when it came time to decend she (I still get chills when I think about it) undid the wrappings from the winch and wrapped them counterclockwise. Then reached for the rope clutch to release it. Several things went through my mind at this point, what are the odds that I can clear the R&B stays?, If I do clear the stays what are the odds that I can make it through the gap (about 3 feet) between our boat and the one in the next slip over and how will that rope between the slips feel as it hits me just prior to hitting the water at some very high velocity? Can I grab the mast until she figures out that I'm having "issues" with "her technique".
After pointing out that "you always wrap the rope clockwise and to STOP and put the rope back on clockwise.....(She wanted the boat, she has 4+ years experience using a winch, she was clearly plotting my demise as "an accident") her response was that "I should have explained how to use a winch.....?????? before I started...
The bottom line is make sure you can really trust the person winching your sorry butt up the mast.
I would tell you that the most important thing is to have the First Mate well briefed on what is expected of them. I had an incident with the former (and now divorced) first mate. she got me up the mast with help from the proginey of 3 boys and when it came time to decend she (I still get chills when I think about it) undid the wrappings from the winch and wrapped them counterclockwise. Then reached for the rope clutch to release it. Several things went through my mind at this point, what are the odds that I can clear the R&B stays?, If I do clear the stays what are the odds that I can make it through the gap (about 3 feet) between our boat and the one in the next slip over and how will that rope between the slips feel as it hits me just prior to hitting the water at some very high velocity? Can I grab the mast until she figures out that I'm having "issues" with "her technique".
After pointing out that "you always wrap the rope clockwise and to STOP and put the rope back on clockwise.....(She wanted the boat, she has 4+ years experience using a winch, she was clearly plotting my demise as "an accident") her response was that "I should have explained how to use a winch.....?????? before I started...
The bottom line is make sure you can really trust the person winching your sorry butt up the mast.
Guys,
there were many that offered good-advice here, but I question some advice given for a first time climber.
Atwhite2 had some questions, based on being a taller/bigger guy & to have never ascended the mast before. His questions/concerns were valid & he was seeking advice.
I know many of us have conquered Mt. Everest, but for some, it's their first time up so, where do they draw experience from? I however feel, this thread has abit of information "Overload" characteristics. Everyone wants to impart advice but, Sometimes too much info. is just too much info. & that may sound conflicting. This can have a negative effect & may cloud one's thought processes.
I believe this is a good case in-point. Getting to the top of the mast the first time is a BLAST. How to properly go about it in a safe first-time manor, is all about being comfortable how you ascend & what you use/do while aloft & then your decent.
All will agree with me that my first time up, deck swaying below me, was a brand new experience. Add to this being your first time up, now you have projects you want to do, tools & equipment to exchange & maybe unknowing problems discovered and, this can become overwhelming & somewhat dangerous, given your first time up & the circumstances that took you there.
I for one, tried to be supportive but, from my experience wanted to let him know up-front the pluses & minuses beforehand from a safety standpoint. I feel that AT2, after reviewing this thread will be fine. He will have his project done by a rigger or, he will attempt it himself.
And, that's all good, I just hope he read all the warning advice from the guys that have been there to ensure he achieves what he wants to do his first time up & lands safely.
CR
there were many that offered good-advice here, but I question some advice given for a first time climber.
Atwhite2 had some questions, based on being a taller/bigger guy & to have never ascended the mast before. His questions/concerns were valid & he was seeking advice.
I know many of us have conquered Mt. Everest, but for some, it's their first time up so, where do they draw experience from? I however feel, this thread has abit of information "Overload" characteristics. Everyone wants to impart advice but, Sometimes too much info. is just too much info. & that may sound conflicting. This can have a negative effect & may cloud one's thought processes.
I believe this is a good case in-point. Getting to the top of the mast the first time is a BLAST. How to properly go about it in a safe first-time manor, is all about being comfortable how you ascend & what you use/do while aloft & then your decent.
All will agree with me that my first time up, deck swaying below me, was a brand new experience. Add to this being your first time up, now you have projects you want to do, tools & equipment to exchange & maybe unknowing problems discovered and, this can become overwhelming & somewhat dangerous, given your first time up & the circumstances that took you there.
I for one, tried to be supportive but, from my experience wanted to let him know up-front the pluses & minuses beforehand from a safety standpoint. I feel that AT2, after reviewing this thread will be fine. He will have his project done by a rigger or, he will attempt it himself.
And, that's all good, I just hope he read all the warning advice from the guys that have been there to ensure he achieves what he wants to do his first time up & lands safely.
CR
To answer the question, "Am I too fat to go up the mast" a simple applicator of engineering principles will suffice.
The moment arm of the keel is about 8', the moment arm of a fat man up the mast on this boat is approximately 50 ft (max)
Since we all know from stactics class that the summation of the moments has to = 0 or things start moving, 3500*8=28000 ft*lb and 200*50=10000 ft*lb. The angle that the two will settle in at is related to the "heel offset" (boat leans and the horizontal distance between the two forces balance
SUM=0=200*50*sin(THETA)-3500*8*sin(THETA)
solving for theta (200*50- 3500*8)*sin(theta)=0
sin(theta)=1/(200*50-3500*8)= - 0.00005555555 or sin^1(0.0005555) =theta=0.000005555 radians. or
0.0003 degrees
Your not a fat boy!!! Congrats and now get your but up that mast.
The moment arm of the keel is about 8', the moment arm of a fat man up the mast on this boat is approximately 50 ft (max)
Since we all know from stactics class that the summation of the moments has to = 0 or things start moving, 3500*8=28000 ft*lb and 200*50=10000 ft*lb. The angle that the two will settle in at is related to the "heel offset" (boat leans and the horizontal distance between the two forces balance
SUM=0=200*50*sin(THETA)-3500*8*sin(THETA)
solving for theta (200*50- 3500*8)*sin(theta)=0
sin(theta)=1/(200*50-3500*8)= - 0.00005555555 or sin^1(0.0005555) =theta=0.000005555 radians. or
0.0003 degrees
Your not a fat boy!!! Congrats and now get your but up that mast.
It always amazes me that putting arcane symbols like =(sin)*+-/ and numbers together in "magical" ways can "prove" that stuff will happen in a certain way!!!!
Almost like the voodoo witchdoctor looking at goat livers.
Almost like the voodoo witchdoctor looking at goat livers.
Cratered
Bombed
Augered in
Totaled
If you mananage to be saved by the rope, but logged some noteworthy air time...
Birdman
Whipper
Screamer
Are we into sardonic climbing humor now? I was surprised there was one name for an unscheduled flight. Now there's whole vocabulary. What' next? Diving style ratings? "A fine flight but there has to be a .5 deduction for bouncing off the spreader."
Feet on the ground for me!
Feet on the ground for me!
Absolutely. Points are deducted for uncool behaviors, such as screaming, falling head first, or failing to repeat the climb.
And there are the fine details. Di the climber...
* flirt off (British)
* sketch off
* slip
* pumped out
* slimed off..
And so forth.
So have fun, but don't get too "caught up in your knitting."