The marina's owner was not in so I have no news today, but I really appreciate all the suggestions from each of you. We are trying to stay calm and have faith that it will all turn out (while our every muscle is clenched!) Perhaps we'll know more tomorrow...
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all i can say is it is totally shitty your going through this with your 1st boat and all, keep a chin up its worth it, all the best man
The Update
My husband is satisfied with the outcome of the conversation he had with the marina owner, who, from his point of view, made sense by holding the title while work is being done. He says that many boats are abandoned and he gets stuck with them and has no title to move them (which looks to be true). He said he will take a deposit on boats coming in, or hold their title until they leave, to insure his yard is not encumbered.
Our boat is very small and insignificant compared to all coming in, so we think he was legit and has much larger issues to contend with. All this said, there's always that cup of doubt. Appreciate your support...
My husband is satisfied with the outcome of the conversation he had with the marina owner, who, from his point of view, made sense by holding the title while work is being done. He says that many boats are abandoned and he gets stuck with them and has no title to move them (which looks to be true). He said he will take a deposit on boats coming in, or hold their title until they leave, to insure his yard is not encumbered.
Our boat is very small and insignificant compared to all coming in, so we think he was legit and has much larger issues to contend with. All this said, there's always that cup of doubt. Appreciate your support...
similar experience
I've meant to mention - I had a similar experience buying our present boat. The previous owner was moving to France in a week. He wanted the boat sold before he left so he wouldn't have to pay a broker to sell it. We gave him a $10,000 deposit, subject to survey, etc. There was nothing to prevent him from skipping town, I realized afterwards. I lived in great fear for several days, until after the deal was completed. In the end, everything went through fine.
As long as you are satisfied, that is the most important point. Not sure what area you are in but in almost 40 years in the service end of this business including marina management, I have never encountered a marina asking for or holding a boats title. But then I learn something new every day. Chuck
That counts for something but, are you satisfied? You should ask your husband some hard questions because the wool over his eyes will probably prevent him from reading anything here.
I'm not a lawyer so get out the salt but...
Has your husband seen a title with your names on it? If not, you don't yet own a boat free and clear. Some states list banks and other lien holders on the title. If this boat wound up being sold by the yard because of unpaid bills, there might well be a bank or other boatyard somewhere that will be coming around with their hand out.
The title has the names of the owners on it. Just having that piece of paper in his hands doesn't let him move or dispose of an abandoned boat until he has gone through the process of siezing in and having it re-titled to him. OTOH, he can hold the title hostage to make you cave in to unreasonble charges incurred just before launch.
If someone abandons a boat that he holds the title paper (not the same as holding a title with his name on it), the owners can simply move it and file for a replacement title unless he puts a lien on the boat. In that case, he doesn't need the title.
This smells a lot more to me like he his trying to obsure the fact that he can't yet produce a clear title to the boat. You need better advice than you can get here and a lot more assurance than some smoozing by what sounds like a sharp operator.
I'd second what Roger has said. You really need to have the title in your hands, and to check to make sure it is clear of any liens. If the purchase and sale agreement you bought the boat under didn't clearly specify that the boat was free and clear of all liens, you really need to find out what is going on with it. While the marina operator/owner can say whatever they want, without the actual title in your hands, you've effectively paid money for a boat YOU DON'T ACTUALLY OWN.
OK, lots of misinformation in this thread.
A title is an ownership document issued by a state. You can physically "hold" the title in your hands, but that's inconsequential because you can easily obtain replacement copies. You can legally hold title - i.e., the boat is titled in your name, making you the owner of record - but that doesn't mean there aren't interests not reflected on the title document.
Many of the posters are rightfully concerned that you're getting scammed. You haven't explained how you documented the sale of the vessel. There are innumerable scams involving titles - at the end of the day it's a question of proof (when you sue the seller for your money, how you will prove that you actually paid the money).
There's also the issue of liens. Responsible lenders record liens on the title document (so they can ensure they get their money at any sale), but that doesn't mean there aren't unrecorded liens. Still, reviewing the title document during a purchase is a common sense step.
So, review your paperwork for comfort. Don't rely on conversations or other unwritten agreements. Verbal contracts are generally unenforceable for a reason - there's no way to reliably prove their existence or terms.
The problem here is the marina owner, who really needs to spend some money on legal counsel. Calling him an idiot is being charitable. There are processes for getting rid of abandoned vessels (often at a profit) and for recovering payments from deadbeats (with costs and interest). His conduct as described by you is just bullying, and doesn't help anyone.
A title is an ownership document issued by a state. You can physically "hold" the title in your hands, but that's inconsequential because you can easily obtain replacement copies. You can legally hold title - i.e., the boat is titled in your name, making you the owner of record - but that doesn't mean there aren't interests not reflected on the title document.
Many of the posters are rightfully concerned that you're getting scammed. You haven't explained how you documented the sale of the vessel. There are innumerable scams involving titles - at the end of the day it's a question of proof (when you sue the seller for your money, how you will prove that you actually paid the money).
There's also the issue of liens. Responsible lenders record liens on the title document (so they can ensure they get their money at any sale), but that doesn't mean there aren't unrecorded liens. Still, reviewing the title document during a purchase is a common sense step.
So, review your paperwork for comfort. Don't rely on conversations or other unwritten agreements. Verbal contracts are generally unenforceable for a reason - there's no way to reliably prove their existence or terms.
The problem here is the marina owner, who really needs to spend some money on legal counsel. Calling him an idiot is being charitable. There are processes for getting rid of abandoned vessels (often at a profit) and for recovering payments from deadbeats (with costs and interest). His conduct as described by you is just bullying, and doesn't help anyone.
Sorry but I have to believe this is "illegal" to hold a title, maybe he can ask for a and get a "deposit" but not a title. Most states allow for a "contractors lien" (or maybe they call it a mechanics lien but you get the idea) The boat becomes the collateral until the bill is paid.
Still would be interested in value or total dollar involved here. When do you think you will be able to launch the boat ? At what point will the marina owner will give you the title. Still interested in the insurance aspect of this scenario and the registration on the vessel.
I'm think the marina owner is probably being honest with you and will convey title when you are ready to launch boat but this is just bad business on his part. I think that either the title was signed over to him (with no new owner listed) or he has gotten legal ownership but has not put your name on title in case you go bad on the boat and he needs to resell it he can-circumvent the legal process and sell it as you were never the legal owner. What state is all this going on in ? Is this a work yard or a upscale marina ? Are we talking hundreds or thousands of dollars ?? Alot of unanswered questions !
My advise is to do the minimum amount of work to get the boat ready for launch and then launch it. This will tell you exactly were you stand as far as the marina owner and if he will give you the title.
Good Luck !
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