marina holding title?

[bayside]

This is our first sailboat- first post, as well. We paid in full for the boat in dry storage and for the monthly fees to keep her in the yard as we do a major overhaul. The marina owner says he'll only give us the title when we're ready to drop her in the water.
Is this normal practice? How do we believe he won't say you owe us X-amount of dollars before the yard drops her in? We have nothing to prove we own her, and yes, kinda know it should have been an even trade at purchase time, but now what? We can't justify continuing working or spending a penny more at this point without a title.

 

[Ross]

I hope that you have a bill of sale. And your cancelled checks and sales contract.
edit to add:
I think that he/they are concerned that if you have title and get tired of working on the boat and have title you will sell it to another before it is finished. If he holds the title and you abandon the project he won't have to go through the legal hassle to recover title to dispose of it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Is it titled to you or someone else? If you name appears on the title, who holds it is irrelevant

 

[Larry Neese]

He's doing what all marina's do, no cash no splash, as long as you have bill of sale, don't make them mad.

 

[Roger Long]

He's doing what all marina's do.

What! I never heard of such a thing. No way I would give someone the title to my boat unless they had an actual ownership interest in it. They've got the boat itself. They can refuse to launch it or put a lien on it if the owner or purchaser doesn't pay the bills. Think of the hassle if they misplace the title.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

I'll bet the marina does not yet actually have a clear title to the boat. I would find out before moving any further. A bill of sale will not do much if the boat is tied up with one or more leins (possibly even from people outside the marina). They are probably trying to clean up paperwork and charge you storage at the same time.

 

[Bad Obsession]

I find that highly suspect. May want to check around with other people in the area. No one....No One...NO ONE is holding a title to an item that I rightfully paid for. Especially if that is not listed in the bill of sale. If they are holding the title after selling the boat and they are violating the bill of sale they are opening up themselves up to civil action.

 

[Chuckbear]

This is not common practice and may very well be illegal. You might want to contact the local Department of Natural Resources or whatever they might be in your state and explain what is going on. Ask their advice for acquiring your legal title and follow through. There sound like something fishy here and you might find they either don't have a title or you will receive it immediately. Only certain organizations have the right to withhold a title such as a bank to secure a loan or the issuing department of motor vehicles or whoever issues the title. You can also go to them and apply for a duplicate and see what happens. Good luck

 

[Larry Neese]

What! I never heard of such a thing. No way I would give someone the title to my boat unless they had an actual ownership interest in it. They've got the boat itself. They can refuse to launch it or put a lien on it if the owner or purchaser doesn't pay the bills. Think of the hassle if they misplace the title.

U agree he's being a bulldog.

 

[sailaway78]

Several Suggestions

There are several good suggestions/ideas here. My first suspicion is that the marina doesn't have a clear title. I don't have anything else to add, except that the deal has a fairly strong odor attached to it.

 

[alanwir]

Hi:

I would not forget about the title and who's name is on it, but just as important, is the need to monitor the financial health of the yard. Many companies, particularly in the boating industry, are going thru some very difficult times. I was hearing in that in NJ, Egg Harbor is shutting down and while Viking is not a sailboat name, I was also hearing they were in very trying times too. These places are prominent and well respected names here. Whether you put a deposit on the boat or wheather the yard is holding your cash for the entire purchase of the boat, if that yard goes down, you could lose everything and that has been happening in a few places.

 

[CaptainJB]

Whoaaaaaa

I would ask for the clear title immediately or my money back

There is something wrong here

 

[Benny]

if you purchased the boat from the marina, and have paid in full then demand they provide a clear title or state that you will get an attorney. If part of your payment was for storage fees while you worked on the boat they cannot make vacate the premises without compensation. It all hinges on the contract that you both signed; read it before you do anything. If no mention is made about them holding the title demand that they immediately provide it.

 

[Roger Long]

Is this normal practice?

Please be sure to come back and tell us how this works out (unless there is a gag order in the lawsuit settlement). It's annoying when people take time to give advice here and then never hear any more.

Good luck.

 

[sailingdog]

Who did you buy the boat from??? If you bought the boat from someone other than the boatyard, I don't see how or why the boatyard has the title to a boat YOU own. If you bought the boat from the boatyard, they don't have a right to hold the title, if you've paid for it in full. What they're doing is probably illegal. I would contact the local Attorney General's office or the department of Consumer Affairs.

 

[Benny]

What they are doing is illegal, they are arresting the boat for any future debt that may arise. I understand their point but it is illegal. Demand a title.

 

[bayside]

Hello everyone, and thanks for the replies. I will get back here tomorrow to tell you how it all panned out.

 

[petersea]

Think about your boat as if it were a car would the dealership hold the title after you paid for it ? Just because you are leaving it in the dealers yard and paying a storage charge ? ? Not likely ! The problem here as I see it the marina is mostly likely concerned that you will not finish your "major overhaul" and the boat will go "derelict" or abandoned a very tough position for the yard to be in. However since you are paying the monthly fees your good will and intentions are clear. As a practical matter when will you finish the boat to be ready to "splash" ?? If 30 days finish it and put in the water. Got to think the marina is pulling a fast one here but may not be dishonest about giving title when they are sure they are free of the boat. A couple of other things come to mind is tell the owner you will be moving the boat to another yard or to your house and request title, see what happens. Move the boat regardless if you have a bill of sale. You may have to get a lawyer or some type of government agency involved to help you out with this one. Another thought is maybe tell the marina you need title so you can register the boat. With out the title were you able to get insurance without being the "legal owner" ? Have you sat down with the marina owner and expressed your concerns about this. I would stress how much time and effort and money you have put in this project and you are concerned about your unsecured dollars you have invested with out title and insurance (if you don't have any) Try the non aggressive route first and see what happens, it will also be your cheapest route if it works. One of my concerns would be you can't (at least in most states) insure something you don't legally own. If your conversation does not go well ask the marina owner if "your" boat were to fall off stands (or some other unfortunate thing happen) and damage 10 other boats who would be responsible ?? especially since you don't "own" the boat ! ! As you live in a title state you don't legally own the boat with out a title signed over to you or a title in your name. Did you ever pay sales tax(if applicable) on the boat ? Maybe some help available from your states revenue service. File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Bottom line you need a title or get this boat out of that yard either by land or on its own bottom ! !

 

[Ron20324]

Sounds like maybe they already had a lien against the boat and expect you to do all the dirty work then they'll end up with the boat. I wouldn't invest another minute or penny on this until you get the title. You have the registration number, so you can go to the DNR and for maybe 5 bucks get a search of their records. The owner probably is not even the owner of record and has no right to the title. Then YOU could cloud the title. Like someone said, they have the boat as collateral to make sure you pay the bill.

 

[petersea]

Bayside,
Since you paid "in full" did you pay cash ?? or credit card ?? Got to believe there was not a broker involved who would be unethical enough to be part of this "deal". Ditto for any finance company. If there was a broker go back to him and demand he get the title for you. Paying cash you may not have any recourse but if you used a credit card you can fight the marina owner thru the credit card company as the marina did not or will not turn over a legal document of ownership. Hopefully you can either put enough pressure to get the title or get your purchase price refunded as the marina owner never "completed" the sale. I may be putting the horse before the cart as they say but first thing I would do today is have a conversation with the marina owner, non aggressive and try to work this out like gentlemen before taking too aggressive a position but if after a reasonable amount of time (couple of days the most) get the teeth out and draw a line in the sand !
What bother me the most is your "first" boat" has now become an "albatross" for you rather then a pleasant experience. This is how boaters are dwindling in number every day. Please don't let this poor experience turn you off from boating ! ! Good Luck ! !