Mainsail/Headsail

Stu Jackson · May 14, 2009

It has nothing to do with your correct idea

They're in San Diego. They're all so laid back that their favorite point of sail is the slowest!

Seriously, though, there is no "right way wrong way" about this. They choose to do so for comfort, I would guess, rather than speed. And my experience is that using just the mainsail induces less heel than just the jib.

On our boat we do not have a furling main, so if we're being lazy we just use the jib on our masthead rig. Other than cleaning the bilge the only "work" I have left on our boat is the mainsail cover.

Joe · May 14, 2009

With our normal light air conditions here in San Diego, I rarely see anyone sailing with just the main or jib alone, at least not out of Mission Bay, which is my home port.

I'm not sure why anyone calls Californians "laid back"... thats an urban myth. We are just as "mental" as any New Yorker. I mean we voted gay marriage out for goodness sake... that's not laid back.

Anyhow, if I'm motoring I leave the main up to stabilize the boat, the headsail comes down. Maybe everyone was motoring.

Stu Jackson · May 14, 2009

Joe

I'm from NY and have lived here since '78.

"Laid back" -- Got me comin' and goin'

Bad Obsession · May 14, 2009

I will sail with just the main up when I am relaxing. I can't seem to tack my boat well with just the main up. I need both sails to ballance out the rig to sail upwind. In heavy winds downwind I will fly just the main because I have noticed that with just the jib I tend to get more roll on the boat. The main with the preventer is ideal when going downwind in higher winds.

Hermit Scott · May 14, 2009

I want to get my sails up. I have some work and parts to buy for both sails, so I want to get one up at a time, and sail with just one in the meantime.
For the jib I need sheets, a halyard and the cars that the sheets go through before they get to the winch.
For the main I need a boom vang, main sheet and halyard.
Since we have plenty of wind where I am, should I get the main up first or the jib up first?

Prime Time · May 14, 2009

Mainly the main

Most boats I have sailed will perform better under main alone. Jib alone may not point well. Main alone is easier to sail short handed too. Different boats may behave differently. My families Bristol 40, mast head rig, has a giant main and a relatively small foretriangle. It sails well under main alone. My Mirage 27 with an IOR inspired design, tiny main with a boom of only 9 ft, sails very well under main alone too, but also ok under the jib alone. My centerboarder, fractional rig, Flying Scot, sails very poorly under jib alone.

jimg · May 14, 2009

They were probably motoring. Like Joe said, it is common to see the main up on boats that are motoring, but I don't know the last time I've seen someone actually sailing in SoCal with the main only. Quite the contrary, it is usually the main and the biggest headsail available.

sailingdog · May 14, 2009

Hermit Scott said:
I want to get my sails up. I have some work and parts to buy for both sails, so I want to get one up at a time, and sail with just one in the meantime.
For the jib I need sheets, a halyard and the cars that the sheets go through before they get to the winch.

What kind of track do you have? I have some schaefer genoa cars for their 1-1/4" track. Garhauer also makes some good cars, and reasonably priced.

For the main I need a boom vang, main sheet and halyard.
Since we have plenty of wind where I am, should I get the main up first or the jib up first?

You don't need the boom vang... the sheet and halyard are all you need. What you'll probably want is a 6:1 purchase for the mainsheet.

Benny · May 14, 2009

If you are after speed you would probably have both sails up, if you are after convenience a furling headsail would do it, but if you are after easy sailing with few surprises tha main it is.

Hermit Scott · May 14, 2009

Benny-I am not wanting to spend the money right now to do it all. I just want to start sailing and only want to put up the money for the parts for one sail now. I'm a little embarrassed to admit it after the "yacht friends versus 1st or second vacation home" post but money is the real reason right now. (I'd like to post a "how did you make all that money" post but I guess that would be tacky.) I like to ask people to look for new business ideas that I amy be able to pursue.
Saildog-when you say 1-1/4" track, that is 1-1/4" wide and how thick? I assume the holes in the track are standard or can be drilled if not big enough?
The mainsheet has the standard C30 blocks(not sure they are called that), and the purchase is probably 5:1 or 6:1. I forgot how to calculate that. BAdobsession could tell us.
Also The halyard right now is wire and rope, I want to replace that. How small of a rope can I use for that and have it fit through the sheave and still perform correctly? Do I want to use a 5/16" halyard or do I need it to be bigger?
Sorry to high jack your thread Nice and easy.:naughty:

sailingdog · May 15, 2009

Hermit Scott said:
Benny-I am not wanting to spend the money right now to do it all. I just want to start sailing and only want to put up the money for the parts for one sail now. I'm a little embarrassed to admit it after the "yacht friends versus 1st or second vacation home" post but money is the real reason right now. (I'd like to post a "how did you make all that money" post but I guess that would be tacky.) I like to ask people to look for new business ideas that I amy be able to pursue.
Saildog-when you say 1-1/4" track, that is 1-1/4" wide and how thick? I assume the holes in the track are standard or can be drilled if not big enough?

The Schaefer track is 1.25" wide and the top section is about 1/8" thick IIRC. I'd have to check... The holes for the pin stops are pretty much standard.

The mainsheet has the standard C30 blocks(not sure they are called that), and the purchase is probably 5:1 or 6:1. I forgot how to calculate that. BAdobsession could tell us.

Easiest way to tell what the purchase is, is to count the number of lines that come off the moving block (ie the one on the boom). If there are six lines running vertically between the blocks, it is usually a six-to-one purchase. If there are five lines... it is usually a five-to-one purchase.

Also The halyard right now is wire and rope, I want to replace that. How small of a rope can I use for that and have it fit through the sheave and still perform correctly? Do I want to use a 5/16" halyard or do I need it to be bigger?
Sorry to high jack your thread Nice and easy.:naughty:

The main problems with upgrading to an all rope halyard is the masthead sheave and slot. Often the sheave is one designed for wire and will have a v-shaped groove. A rope sheave has a U-shaped groove. The slot will often be damaged from the wire passing through it, and any burrs or other rough points need to be smoothed and corrected before switching to an all rope halyard, since they will chafe through a rope relatively quickly.

As for what ropes to use... most of the dyneema, vectran or spectra cored lines are more than strong enough to replace a wire, without upsizing the diameter. You could go with a 5/16" halyard, but a larger halyard, like 3/8" would be easier on your hands. I upgraded most of the halyards on my boat to 10mm T900. This is about 2.5 times as strong as the original Sta-Set halyards.

BTW, if the masthead truck doesn't allow you to replace the sheave with a larger one to accommodate the greater diameter of the rope, you can always use a dyneema/spectra/vectran cored rope with the cover removed for the end portion... dyneema, in particular, has fairly decent UV tolerance and good abrasion resistance.

However, IIRC, it is pretty slippery as line materials go, and that is why it is usually jacketed with a polyester outer braid.

Ron20324 · May 15, 2009

hermit Scott said:
?
Sorry To High Jack Your Thread Nice And Easy.:naughty:

Then You Should Have Started Your Own Thread.

kloudie1 · May 15, 2009

I am with you, Easy.. Because of roller furling on the jib, I usually use that alone when just messing around. Boat sails fine in that configuration. My headsail on the furler is only a 110, so it really is a laid back sail. You can see in my avatar that the main is covered .. didn’t even bother to remove the cover that day as I headed for Oak Harbor.

Cpt. Jon · May 15, 2009

Scott,

I kinda got the impression from your posts and your website that you don't have a whole lot of sailing experience. If that's not the case, my appologies, if it is I would consider installing the Mainsail first. My logic for this may not be what others on here agree with, you won't be as fast as as flying a 150% genoa, but the comfort factor, expecially for your wife will be more comfortable to get used to sailing. B. Obosession, who I think has the same boat as you (maybe not same year) said that he has some troubles tacking with main alone, just make sure to build a little speed to carry you through the tack and it should be fine. Flying the main only will mean that there are less trips to the foredeck for you with your wife steering, which she wasn't too comfortable with the other day. Typically, my wife will get the 'job' of preparing the mainsail or bringing down the mainsail, she seems happy with that and takes pride in the fact that she does a much better job folding the sail than I do. Tacking the main is easier as well.

Once the main is installed and you have a cover, it's pretty much always ready to go. With headsails generally (unless you have a roller furling) you need to hank on the sails etc. Headsail you will need more sheets and longer.

I would replace the halyard and get a mainsheet and go sailing. Then I would consider later puchasing the boom vang, and then finally when the money is there get what you need for the Genny.

I have to do all of my boat purchases this way (one at a time), my mortgage is a lot and after all is said and done there isn't a whole lot left over (Single income with wife and kids). I am looking at halyards right now, I need main and jib halyards both replaced. I would like them replaced by Memorial day, but it is unlikely that I can order them and get them by then, before now I had to wait for the $$.

Cheers

Hermit Scott · May 15, 2009

Jon-I have never sailed a boat before, or been on a boat under sail before. I have only read about how to sail. I know that some boats sail better when choosing between a head sail or the mainsail. It has a furler but at the least needs to be taken off and cleaned and probably replace the bearing(s).
I have two jibs, a 130 and a 100 I believe. The 130 says "lapper" on it and looks the best of all the sails. I know the smaller is called a jib I am not sure what the 130 would be called. They both have a bolt rope to hoist them on the furler though. Neither of them are the chute type sails.

Hermit Scott · May 15, 2009

And since deciding between just a main or just a jib is the whole point of this thread, I didn't start another thread.
Saildog-I will measure the track tomorrow.

Bad Obsession · May 15, 2009

It is funny because I tend to put the main up first with the thought that if I want the jib it is the easiest to deal with and I don't have to go forward. My jib will furl really simply but putting the main up takes more work. I am usually not satisfied with just one sail and I usually don't just go out to fart around.

The other thought about just having the main up deals with weather conditions. My boat requires a sail up to motor into heavy chop. It hobby horses way too much without some sail. The main is the sail that I deal with when doing this. The other thing is that I can roll in or roll out the jib as weather conditions permit but reefing the main is a major PITA when I am single handed.

Hermit Scott, you know that you don't have to furl the sail everytime you sail. you can just put the jib up and down if the furler isn't working right. The furler is only a nice addition for us lazy sailors. Get your main working and just put your jibs up and down each time. That will at least give you something to play with for a while.

The Catalina 30 strongly prefers to have both sails up to go to wind. Mine will reach and run with just the main or just the jib, but to make progress upwind it requires some jib. I also have a 100 that I carry on my boat as a spare and I use it when I need to sail and the wind is up. I have to take my big 155% down to do this so I usually try to plan ahead as I am the only crew member on my boat. The good thing about the Catalina 30 is that it is a very forgiving boat and rounding up isn't even that bad on the boat. I have raced on some smaller go-fast boats where rounding up was extremely scary but the Catalina 30 just tends to heel over and gently go into the wind.

sand sailor · May 15, 2009

i use both for balance but sail off the dock with the jib for better control when single handing (its harder to stall)