Low tide

Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
This may be All U Get, from the "Bible": Sverdrup et al., The Oceans Their Physics, Chemistry, and General Biology, 1942

Tidal Currents

Tidal currents represent the motion of the water particles in the progressive or standing tide waves which on coasts and islands are recognized by the rise and fall of the tide. The tidal currents will therefore be of different character in different areas, depending upon the character of the tides, and will, in a given locality, pass through cyclic changes corresponding to those of the tide. Complications may arise because of the configuration of the coast, and tidal currents may attain great velocities in straits or sounds.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
In Beaufort water is flowing through narrow canals and channels. So even when the tide peaks the water is still forcing its way up the Newport river, north river, core creek, and into bogue sound. I never see really slack water it seems like the current changes instantly but changes in strength. Also there is a rule that no matter where you are going the current will work against you :>)
That's what I see happening and really agree that I always pick the time when we're going against the current. If I ever find that I'm going with the current, I'll post it in huge type.

All U Get
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,003
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Take a trip to the Bay model in Sausalito sometime. It's fascinating. If I remember right, they had good correlation between the two because there were no external factors.
BTDT, it's a great tool. It clearly shows that this is not so. One of the very best descriptions of tides & currents of the SF Bay is found in Kimball Livingston's superb book Sailing The Bay. I have BOTH editions. He devotes an entire chapter to it and how to read the tide&current tables distributed all over The Bay Area. In almost all cases, there is almost an HOUR between the time of high or low tide levels and the time of maximum currents at The Gate.
But Stu, I think that is because there are back currents (i.e deep ocean flow that starts prior to the slack of the tide leaving the bay.) that flow while the main current is reaching zero. This occurs up her in the PacNW all the time. Slack in the middle stream while reverse currents are flowing on the edgies or in eddies near bay/river entrances. Certainly the Columbia entrance exhibits this during spring river flow. In some instances the slack may be only a minute or two.
This is true, but does not obviate what I've said before. There are "wonderful" back eddies at Baker Beach on the south and Point Diablo on the north side of The Gate, which I've used on countless cruises outside The Gate. These back eddies occur on both states of current
ebb & flows, but are most pronounced on ebbs. This is part of local knowledge. You are, of course, correct in your basic description of how these events occur in almost all waterborne passes.

But it still does NOT answer the basic question: Why are high & low TIDES different than maximum and minimum currents?

The answer is simple IF you read the [complicated] reference material. It is NOT a one sentence answer, which is why I provided the link to Wikipedia and recommended other resources.

Times of slack current do NOT occur at high & low tidal heights.

If anyone would like to show me where it DOES do this, I'm all ears. :)
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
High tide WHERE? If that's not calculated in the table you are looking at for the turning basin, it for sure is going to be different. That was my point.
So lets pick a spot and say it's high tide. The current is still coming in because it's not slack yet. The water coming in has to go somewhere because the tide is falling. Doesn't appear logical.

All U Get
 
May 17, 2004
5,564
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
So lets pick a spot and say it's high tide. The current is still coming in because it's not slack yet. The water coming in has to go somewhere because the tide is falling. Doesn't appear logical.

All U Get
I had the same confusion as you until I read JohnB's post. Think about this situation - a tidal sea, a narrow opening, and a very large bay. As the tide rises in the sea, water will flow through the opening into the bay. But the bay is large, and the opening is narrow, so the bay won't rise as fast as the sea. At the time of high tide on the sea, the bay level will still be lower, so water will continue to flow into the bay. This will continue until the level of the sea falls to match the level of the bay. For all of that time, the current will be flowing into the bay, even though it's passed high tide in the sea and in the opening itself.
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,869
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Teachers say.. "you buy them books and they eat the pages"... But the student has read the texts... and reviewed the video of the Bay Model..
Some clarity has occurred, but I think it is a worthy topic to discuss over several beers.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,488
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
A lot of skippers assume high tide coincides with slack water. Maybe up at the end of an estuary it does. But in most other places the current can continue to flood even though the tide height is as high as it will go in that place for that cycle. It isn't until all the water upstream of a hypothetical point has flowed in, that the ebb will over whelm the flood and the flow start the other way. Eldridge has a pretty good explanation of this - with diagrams.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
This will really freak everybody out. The water is not actually flowing much on the diel cycle. The earth is rotating under the tidal bulge created by the equilibrium state of the gravitational pull of the moon and sun against the centrifugal force of the revolution of the earth-moon system. So, as an earth's location passes under the highest point of the bulge, its peak, you're at high tide at that location. The bulges follow the moon. That's why a lunar day is 24 h 50 min. High tide to the same high tide of the following day is 24 h 50 min. Also, FYI, it's ebb and flood; not ebb and flow. Ebb and flood is geoscience; ebb and flow is poetry.
 
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Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Kings Gambit is onto it. I had a diver under our boat yesterday and he said if you sit on the bottom here in Beaufort, there is little or no current. I've read Eldridge and if I could use his example of the Chessy and the approved beers.

The mouth of the bay will be the Bay Bridge, to the north Deltaville, Potomic River, Solomons, Annapolis, and Baltimore in that order. The ocean comes in at the Bay Bridge filling to high tide, fine lets say I'm using a pitcher of beer. Deltaville begins to fill an hour later and the BB is 1 hour after low and I'm now filling both with beer. Next hour later, BB is +2, Delta is +1 and Potomic River is beginning to fill. Next hour BB is + 3, Delta is + 2, Potomic River + 1, and the Solomons beginning to fill. (How we doing, pretty graphic huh).

Next hour BB is +4, Delta +3, PR is +2, Solomons is +1 and Annapolis begins to fill. At hour 5 BB is +5, Delta is +4, PR is +3, Solomons +2, Anna is +1 and Balt is beginning to fill.

So the glasses of beer range from near full at the BB and just starting to fill in Balt. I can only fill them from the Bay Bridge side so the beer (water) is flowing north. As we hit high in the next hour at the BB it now stops rising and begins to fall (someone's drinking the beer). All the places to the north are filling so current is still flowing north.

Next hour BB has gone down to +4, someone begins drinking at Delta, and all the rest are still filling. The current however under the BB should be headed south because we're headed toward an empty glass. Somewhere near these two glasses is where the current is deciding to change its flow direction. That would be slack.

Let's move it ahead so that BB is down to +3, Delta +4, PR is +5, Solomons +4 (still filling), Annapolis +3, and Balt +2. Since the Solomons is now full you might believe slack would be somewhere near, but its not. Its somewhere by the Bay Bridge.

The glass at the Bay Bridge is the largest and consecutively smaller to the one in Balt being the smallest, (concludes the difference in tide range). The slack area should now progress north with the filling of the different glasses.

I've sailed in the rising tide before slack and gotten the boost up the Chessy and it works that way pretty much every time. But along the ICW there are so many inlets and tide differences that slack happens nearer mid tide than at either low or high. The young diver I was talking with said the currents around Morehead City and Beaufort do some strange stuff, but he was unfazed by it. He did admit to not spending any time on a sailboat.

With a tall mast I spend a lot of time planning when to be under the fixed bridges on the ICW and knowing the current flow is a necessity for us. So far we've been entirely outside from the Bahamas, but we're choosing to go inside again instead of around Hatteras. (Old couple and old boat) The bridges were supposed to have been built so they would be 65 feet of clearance at average high tide. Many don't have that amount at low tide as we've experienced over the last six years. Like Jibes was saying, you usually go against the current.

All U Get
 
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jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,869
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Very good description. Liked the beer analogy. Kept my interest.
So does it hold true when there is a whole lot of beer current like up here in the PacNW?
Or.
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,751
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Eddies in the space/time continuum.
This is best answer.:clap::plus:
_________
You just have to figure where you are in that gravitational Eddy.
_________
@capta in his post #14 has most of the factors, but left one out....
Your boat size/profile and its drag.
Just like a bridge support column, your boat affects the current.
________
The tidal current "simple" model is a pendulum or playground swing.
________
The maximum Velocity (Change with time) is at the bottom of the swing , but the Rate of change with time is Acceleration/Deceleration. which has maximums, that occur somewhere before and after Middle Tide. Acceleration and Velocity are zero at high and low tides.

So your best time to escape is High Tide at your space/time continuum.:cowbell:
________

Is the difference between your GPS's SOG and your boat's knot meter the Velocity of the current?

Jim...

PS: I have had 3 cups of coffee this morning.:doh:
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Yes the tide works it's way up and down the Chesapeake Bay, but there is also a 64,000 square mile River drainage feeding 40 billion gallons per day into that same tidal estuary. And with an average depth of 20 feet that water is going to greatly effect level and current. We regularly see low tides that look like high tides.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
We're moving/towed to a different spot up the river. Maybe a little out of the way but doable with 7 foot draft.

All U Get
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,810
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
IMG_0954.JPG
IMG_0946.JPG
Here's a picture of the sailor that missed the deeper water. They came in at low tide.