Loose footed main with Stack Pack vs non-loose footed main

[Hayden Watson]

Not at the moment. I've got several ideas including switching to 2 line reefing for the second reef, but haven't done anything yet. Probably the best plan is to take the sail to my local loft and have new lower 2nd reef cringles put in.

I have 1st and second single line reefing on my C30 but it uses the single continuous line system rather than the in-boom shuttle system. I found that in order to get it working well, I needed to add ball bearing blocks at the tack and clew cringles.

 

[DArcy]

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That's a nice setup, thanks for the pictures and the description

 

[Hayden Watson]

That's a nice setup, thanks for the pictures and the description

I sent you a PM with more details.

 

[colemj]

Smokey, Make sure your sailmaker knows if you have single line reefing or not. That will limit the maximum amount of sail you can reef. I ordered a mainsail from Hyde for my 1994 Hunter 37.5 and did my own measurements, and I'm happy with the sail other than the second reef is to high for the capacity of the single line reefing system.

Is your single line system the type that has a shuttle in the boom, and that is limiting the travel? If not, then I'm not understanding how a single line system would differ from a 2-line system wrt the amount of sail one can reef.

For the OP: I didn't know fixed foot mains were even being made anymore. Go with the loose foot. There are no advantages with fixed foot - just disadvantages. Well, I guess if you want it to capture rain water, that might be an advantage.

The stackpack is a non-issue. I don't see how that would be any different for a loose foot than a fixed foot.

While brands of sails might have differences, for a dacron sail there will be larger differences between lofts of the same brand than between brands themselves. So choose a good loft. If you are getting a high tech sail, then the brands start to matter.

Mark

 

[PAC3142]

Is your single line system the type that has a shuttle in the boom, and that is limiting the travel? If not, then I'm not understanding how a single line system would differ from a 2-line system wrt the amount of sail one can reef.
Mark

Good point. Smokey73, the OP, has the same year Hunter as me, so I assumed the reefing system is like mine, the shuttle in boom type. If not, then this isn't an issue.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Good point. Smokey73, the OP, has the same year Hunter as me, so I assumed the reefing system is like mine, the shuttle in boom type. If not, then this isn't an issue.

On the shuttle reefing systems I have seen, you can reef up to maybe 90% of the length of the boom. Is that the way that yours works? As long as the 2nd reef is not higher than that, it should work.

 

[LouisMK]

Loose footed mains work wonderfully, stack packs seem to work well for those who like them but IMO are as ugly as homemade sin. They’re just always there.

 

[PAC3142]

On the shuttle reefing systems I have seen, you can reef up to maybe 9% of the length of the boom. Is that the way that yours works? As long as the 2nd reef is not higher than that, it should work.

That's exactly how mine works.

 

[smokey73]

On my Hunter 40.5 the reef line is not on a shuttle system. The Outhaul is on a shuttle but the single line first reef runs straight through the inside of the boom and is led aft to the cabin top. The second reef cringle is in the sail but there is no line for the second reef installed at this time. I want to put one in sometime in the future.

I'm not sure of the advantage of a shuttle system for reefing since shaking out the reef is done with no tension on the reef line. When putting in a reef I normally do it before I get underway if it looks like I will need it or if I need it when underway I luff the main and lower it to the reef distance (marked on my main haylard) to take tension off the line then pull in on the reef line when it is not under significant tension. I can't imagine trying to have to "crank down" with serious purchase of the shuttle system to put in the reef. Am I missing something in the need for a shuttle system with multiple blocks to get serious purchase on the reef line?

I understand the need for a shuttle system with blocks for purchase on the outhaul since that is often done when underway, especially when racing, and doing adjustments to sail draft when the sail if full and the line is under tension.

 

[DArcy]

The reef line tensions the foot the same way the outhaul does so it does need some purchase. Typically, when you want a reef you want to flatten the sail so getting some tension on the reefed foot is a good idea.

 

[Hayden Watson]

On my Hunter 40.5 the reef line is not on a shuttle system. The Outhaul is on a shuttle but the single line first reef runs straight through the inside of the boom and is led aft to the cabin top. The second reef cringle is in the sail but there is no line for the second reef installed at this time. I want to put one in sometime in the future.

I'm not sure of the advantage of a shuttle system for reefing since shaking out the reef is done with no tension on the reef line. When putting in a reef I normally do it before I get underway if it looks like I will need it or if I need it when underway I luff the main and lower it to the reef distance (marked on my main haylard) to take tension off the line then pull in on the reef line when it is not under significant tension. I can't imagine trying to have to "crank down" with serious purchase of the shuttle system to put in the reef. Am I missing something in the need for a shuttle system with multiple blocks to get serious purchase on the reef line?

I understand the need for a shuttle system with blocks for purchase on the outhaul since that is often done when underway, especially when racing, and doing adjustments to sail draft when the sail if full and the line is under tension.

The advantage of the shuttle system is that the tension is the same at the tack and clue when you are pulling in the reef. Once it is set, that tension difference goes away. The reason is due to the friction loss in the blocks that make up the system. This is particularly a problem if your sheets just pass through the cringles which makes a lot of friction at each.

With the continuous single line reefing that I have, there is friction at the clew cringle, boom end block, gooseneck block that affect the clew. These losses are not on the tack, so the tack comes tight much faster and it is hard to get the clew tight. The shuttle has equal losses on both clew and tack.

 

[Hayden Watson]

The reef line tensions the foot the same way the outhaul does, so it does need some purchase. Typically, when you want a reef you want to flatten the sail so getting some tension on the reefed foot is a good idea.

I have found this is not as big a problem with the reef as it is with the full sail. I spent a lot of time getting the anchor point to the boom at the correct location so that the foot and leach tension were correct. It is controlled by the downward pull to the boom and rearward pull to the turning block. The actual tension is created by the tension of the main sheet which pulls the boom down. The boom then pulls aft at the block and down at the anchor. To get my sail flat with reefed, I ended up with the boom attachment about 6" aft of the reef tack so that it also pulled aft as well as down.

 

[Hayden Watson]

Loose footed mains work wonderfully, stack packs seem to work well for those who like them but IMO are as ugly as homemade sin. They’re just always there.

This is true of almost every stack pack I have ever seen, and I agree that it is fugly. I feel the same way about any lazy jack system that is up when sailing for the same reason. I want nothing to interfere with my sail shape when I am sailing.

That is why I made my own. It is never up when sailing so that it does not disturb the air flow at the base of the sail or affect trim.

 

[colemj]

Our single line reefing for two reefs is just like the diagram @Hayden Watson posted, with the exception that we have good quality ball bearing blocks where the drawing has cringles and bullseye. This greatly removes friction, and the system works very well. We never leave the cockpit for reefing, and can easily reef downwind.

Mark

 

[colemj]

Loose footed mains work wonderfully, stack packs seem to work well for those who like them but IMO are as ugly as homemade sin. They’re just always there.

When stowed, a stackpack is no uglier than a sailcover because that is what it is. When underway, many of them can be stowed so they aren't deployed at all.

Deployed underway is a tradeoff between "looking good" and convenience (or even safety). When it is blowing 30kts at 3am and I need the pack to contain the bunt of the reef I'm putting in, I don't want to go on deck and work close to the boom to redeploy it.

Mark

 

[Hayden Watson]

Our single line reefing for two reefs is just like the diagram @Hayden Watson posted, with the exception that we have good quality ball bearing blocks where the drawing has cringles and bullseye. This greatly removes friction, and the system works very well. We never leave the cockpit for reefing, and can easily reef downwind.

Mark

Yep, it needs the ball bearing blocks at the cringles or it will not work well. I made my current ones from Harkin Carbo blocks with soft shackles.


For the first set, I just used a couple of Harkin single blocks that I had on hand and connected them to a welded SS ring on the other side of the cringle. Here is a photo of the prototype setup where I used a D-shackle to hold it to the sail.

 

[Hayden Watson]

30 seconds to put in a reef without leaving the cockpit. Less than 1 minute from full trim to full trim.

Please ignore how loose the clew cringle is at the end of the video. I know someone will comment on that!

This was the third take because my cameraman didn’t know how to use my phone. Putting in a reef is easy-pesy but taking it back out involves a fair amount of time on the winch and I was getting tired. On the last take, I forgot to lock in the 1st reef clutch and the port winch is not self-tailing so as soon as I let go of the line it started letting the reef back out. At 0.52 in the video there is a shot of the stop point for my reef.
There is absolutely no reason for the tack cringle to be tight to the boom. The cringle must be pulled down and backwards so that the foot and leach have the correct balance of tension. After that the final leach tension is provided by the mainsheet. When reefed, the main is flat and the draft is about 40% of chord length. I have sent a fair amount of time messing with the location of the bitter-end anchorage of that line to get the balance I want. In order to pull the cringle, lower I would need to lower the halyard more and when I do that the reef lines start to get fouled by the tack slides.