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Looking for what new (used) boat to buy

Mikem

.
Dec 20, 2009
678
Hunter 466 Bremerton
FWIW the Cat -25 swing keel version has 5’4” of head room. My daughter had one for 7 years. The fixed keel version I think has 5’6” headroom. Don’t forget that some Cat -25s have a poptop that increases headroom to 6’6”. Very convenient at anchor or in port. Do not sail with the pop top up. The fixed keel version is still trailerable and draws less than the swing keel in the down position. Finally, should the swing keel cable fail with the keel in the up position that 1500 lbs of cast iron will crash into the keel housing and sink the boat. We left the keel down all the time.
 
Mar 29, 2016
74
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
Mikem, thanks for that info. Good to know about the 5'-4" headroom, more than I expected. Too bad sailboatdta doesn't list headroom in boats having cabins.
Q: Would your daughter say hers was a joy to sail?
I hear you about the danger of (any) swing keel cable snapping and several hundred pounds of heavy metal slamming down. On my Cal21, which I think of as a Cal40's little sister, William Lathrop designed the swing keel operation as follows: 1. Upon launching, lower the keel. 2. Remove the cable, as it will cause turbulence. 3. Close the opening in the hull with the 6' long oak plug, further reducing turbulence. 4. Leave it that way all season.
As to why I don't own a vehicle capable of towing a boat, I am a climate emergency believer. For 363 days per year, I choose to have a vehicle with minimal carbon emissions. For launch and haulout days, I rent a U-Haul pickup.
 
Jul 30, 2019
115
O'Day 20 Stuart Lake, BC
As to why I don't own a vehicle capable of towing a boat, I am a climate emergency believer. For 363 days per year, I choose to have a vehicle with minimal carbon emissions. For launch and haulout days, I rent a U-Haul pickup.

Good for you. Greta would appreciate it.

serveimage.jpg
 

Mikem

.
Dec 20, 2009
678
Hunter 466 Bremerton
Mikem, thanks for that info. Good to know about the 5'-4" headroom, more than I expected. Too bad sailboatdta doesn't list headroom in boats having cabins.
Q: Would your daughter say hers was a joy to sail?
I hear you about the danger of (any) swing keel cable snapping and several hundred pounds of heavy metal slamming down. On my Cal21, which I think of as a Cal40's little sister, William Lathrop designed the swing keel operation as follows: 1. Upon launching, lower the keel. 2. Remove the cable, as it will cause turbulence. 3. Close the opening in the hull with the 6' long oak plug, further reducing turbulence. 4. Leave it that way all season.
As to why I don't own a vehicle capable of towing a boat, I am a climate emergency believer. For 363 days per year, I choose to have a vehicle with minimal carbon emissions. For launch and haulout days, I rent a U-Haul pickup.
Since it was her first boat and had nothing to compare it to it was fun. Sailing is fun. Something else to remember is that the Cat 25 is not as user friendly as the Macs when it comes to launching and retrieving. I would say it is more of a seasonal boat, put it in for a season or several weeks at least. I would not consider it a day sailer as in frequent launch and retrieval.
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
In addition to pop-tops, you can easily build a companionway "tent" like this one... this is not a pic of my H26 but I have this same cover for my boat.

1579621834988.png


Once the pop-top is up, you can simply lay some sunbrella over the top, measure it out to fit and then install snaps around the edges. Easy peasy. On my Mac 22 I did something similar but what I used was mosquito netting and instead of snaps I sewed some pvc pipe filled with sand into the edges to hold it down. I have seen people use a sock filled with sand also. I guess the advantage of a sock is that you can pack it up tighter for storage.
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
In addition to pop-tops, you can easily build a companionway "tent" like this one... this is not a pic of my H26 but I have this same cover for my boat.

View attachment 174291

Once the pop-top is up, you can simply lay some sunbrella over the top, measure it out to fit and then install snaps around the edges. Easy peasy. On my Mac 22 I did something similar but what I used was mosquito netting and instead of snaps I sewed some pvc pipe filled with sand into the edges to hold it down.
 
Mar 29, 2016
74
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
Good to know about creating a fabric "pop-top for a Cat25 that doesn't have the factory pop-top. I never would have thought of that. So I can have 6'-4" headroom in that part of the cabin! Nice.
Mikem, being curious about all things, why should one not sail with the pop-top up?
Noodat Lady, I love that pic of Greta!

I just began reading Ted Brewer Explains Sailboat Design. He includes an interesting tradeoff chart for different types of sailboats (see attachment). Since I am searching for a trailer sailer, I'd like to sacrifice some comfort for speed, but that's probably asking too much.

I'm curious about sailboatdata's inclusion of S# in their Sailboat Calculations. Their definition:
S# first appeared (that we know of) in TellTales, April 1988, “On a Scale of One to Ten” by A.P. Brooks . The equation incorporates SA/Disp (100% fore triangle) and Disp/length ratios to create a guide to probable boat performance vs. other boats of comparable size. For boats of the same length, generally the higher the S#, the lower the PHRF.
Under 2 - Slow, under powered.
2-3 - Cruiser
3-5 - Racer Cruiser
5+ - Fast/Racing
But what is the equation? I tried dividing Disp./Len by SA/Disp, and did not get the same number, Anyone know?
 

Attachments

Mikem

.
Dec 20, 2009
678
Hunter 466 Bremerton
Good to know about creating a fabric "pop-top for a Cat25 that doesn't have the factory pop-top. I never would have thought of that. So I can have 6'-4" headroom in that part of the cabin! Nice.
Mikem, being curious about all things, why should one not sail with the pop-top up?
Noodat Lady, I love that pic of Greta!

I just began reading Ted Brewer Explains Sailboat Design. He includes an interesting tradeoff chart for different types of sailboats (see attachment). Since I am searching for a trailer sailer, I'd like to sacrifice some comfort for speed, but that's probably asking too much.

I'm curious about sailboatdata's inclusion of S# in their Sailboat Calculations. Their definition:
S# first appeared (that we know of) in TellTales, April 1988, “On a Scale of One to Ten” by A.P. Brooks . The equation incorporates SA/Disp (100% fore triangle) and Disp/length ratios to create a guide to probable boat performance vs. other boats of comparable size. For boats of the same length, generally the higher the S#, the lower the PHRF.
Under 2 - Slow, under powered.
2-3 - Cruiser
3-5 - Racer Cruiser
5+ - Fast/Racing
But what is the equation? I tried dividing Disp./Len by SA/Disp, and did not get the same number, Anyone know?
Don’t sail with it up for two reasons. One is visibility. Hard to see over or around it. Second and most importantly safety. Should the boat capsize there would be no chance of recovery.
 
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Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
...there would be no chance of recovery.
:plus:

Even a bad knockdown could cost you the boat. With that said, I am guilty of sailing with mine up but only when the winds were VERY light. Part of that is the risk/benefit calculation. When the winds are light, things get hot and the kids start to complain if they are down in the cabin. So... we open the hatches. When things kick up, I close up the entire boat including my companionway hatch boards.
 
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Mar 29, 2016
74
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
I posted an ad on Craig's List: Wanted: Catalina 25. I got a response from an owner who knows little about the boat. I don't think its a Cat25, judging from the ornament at the bow and the cabin roof. Anyone know what boat this is:
IMG_0174.JPG
IMG_0174.JPG
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
That looks like a beefy trailer. My best guess on the boat would be a seaward but I’m only using the shape of the scupper to make that guess.
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
Ask the guy for a pic of the HIN.
You can decipher the make from that
 
Mar 29, 2016
74
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
I'm going to have a look at the boat tomorrow. He had the trailer custom-built, with a telescoping tongue, so I ought to be able to launch her from typical public ramps in Maine. Not a Seawward 25:
seaward_25_photo.jpg
seaward_25_photo.jpg
seaward_25_photo.jpg
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
Well the trailer is definitely worth a few bucks. Boats are basically fiberglass and a few wooden bits... so for me, they are easy and cheap to repair and fix. So when I look at a neglected used boat, I focus on the outboard, trailer, sails and standing rigging. Those cost real $$$ to replace. So if those are in good shape and the price is low, I consider it a fair deal. Now if you don't like doing fiberglass repair and basic carpentry, fixing up a used boat might not be your thing. :beer:
 
Mar 29, 2016
74
Cal 21 Sidney, ME
He said the materials to build the trailer cost $2000. He removed the head, sink, all interior wood, intending to refurbish it all, but never did. Worst part is he has no sails. If I buy the boat I'll hope Bacon Sails has a used set, so I can see how well I like the boat, then buy a new set. I don't love working with fiberglass, but I've built two Instant Boats so I have experience. Also got a lead on a Westwind 24 (Paceship), a Ted Hood design that sounds appealing, although the 2370 lb. ballast is up high, with a centerboard drawing 5.5'.
 
Jan 19, 2010
7,962
Hunter 26 Lake Martin AL
No interior and no sails... yikes! The sails will set you back $3,000. I'd keep looking. Does it have a working O.B? Does it need new rigging? I can see you sinking $5K into this boat before you can sail it and then you still have a lot of work to do to make it look nice.

Here is another Mac 25 that just came on the market. No pictures but maybe worth a phone call

 
Nov 23, 2018
38
Vandestadt & McGruer Ltd. Siren 17 Choctawhatchee Bay
The "magic" photo identifier on my phone suggests that the boat is a Mirage Kirby 30.
 
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