Looking for smart answers to my dumb questions

[L0keman]

Okay, so I have been sailing for a while, but actually have very little experiance and education when it comes down to it. I had a hobie 16 for a couple years and have had a chrysler c-22 for a couple years. Well, I was self taught and read "sailing for dummies" (more like skimmed through it). I understand the mechanics of sailing and that has always been good enough for a guy like me. But now, I plan to buy a catalina 30 next summer and plan to spread my wings a bit and seem to be a little behind the curve on a lot of things. I have a million questions I can't seem to find straight answers to. Maybe you all can help me?

1. What EXACTLY does an autopilot do? I know it can hold a steady course. But if the winds shift are you SOL? Does it stop if another boat gets in the way? How about if it gets too shallow? I see a lot of these systems that have charts, depth, radar, speed, wind direction etc... But is the autopilot technology capable of anything more than sail heading X?

2. Chartplotting and all them sensors.... Is there a way to cheap out? I used a free chart viewer on my laptop with a $10 USB gps reciever until I got my Ipad with navionics marine US. I have seen nmea to usb adapters, but it's only for 1 object. Even going to the site selling them and asked the companies, i get no info or replies. Is there a way to hook up sensors for wind direction and speed and water temp and speed and depth and gps all to a laptop and use a program on it? I know you can't have a laptop in the cockpit, but I can get a water proof 10" screen for less than $100 that will display everything my laptop down below is.

3. If I did go to put together a system with all the sensors listed above using a standard marine chart plotter setup, can you mix and match brands? Like a humminbird 1198c and add raymarine wind sensors and so and so's fuel gague and brand X's radar?

I think that is all I can think of right now. I'm sure I will have more, but these are the ones that concern me the most right now. The boats I have had, had no electronics or batteries and the boats I see for sail vary greatly in price and my guess is the occasions I see an uglier boat selling for more than the prettier boat has to do with the electronics. So i am trying to figure out if they are worth the extra money to me or if I should buy a bare boat and buy my own stuff. Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read all of this and lend a few words of wisdom.

 

[Stu Jackson]

1. wind shift yes SOL but recoverable

2. sure, use a paper chart

3. easy answer: yes you can but why bother, stick with one.

Welcome, take it step-by-step

 

[L0keman]

So, can the autopilot sail a course? Let's say I wanted to sail east along the coast but stay clear of a few obsticles. The entire time, the wind will be friendly... Or even just motor a course... Could an autopilot do it?

 

[Ross]

Auto pilot will cheerfully sail your boat onto the beach if the wind shifts.

 

[David10790]

What Auto Can do For You

A good autopilot will allow you to plot a route with waypoints and direction changes at the waypoints. However, if the route is plotted badly, or if another boat gets in the way, or if the wind is in the wrong place, you are in fact sol. Most sailors use auto to give themselves a rest from steering while they go below for various reasons. It is nothing more or less than a gizmo that turns the rudder to keep you going where you tell it to. dumb as a bag of rocks.

 

[L0keman]

Thanks David. I figured it would need a lot of baby sitting. Here in MS the average depth in the bay and along the coast out for a mile, sometimes more is 2-3 feet. So, just wondering if this thing could follow a course between channel markers and make a turn if it takes too long to run up the gib or if I gotta go below and help my daughters with something. Seems like it would definately not be ideal, and would probably just turn me into a youtube video. It honestly doesn't sound like it warrants the price for me personally. A couple grand for the equivalant of a drunk monkey taking the helm for a minute. I personally would be better off buying a roller furler or something that removes work instead creating the equal amount of work it removes. Thanks for the info.

 

[Paul Brinkley]

Why, these autopilots are very smart... just like the Cruise Control on a Winnebago: you can set it and go below and make a sandwich while you cross the shipping lanes! (This is your "smart answer"; the rest of the guys played you straight, so I figured you needed at least one smartxxx answer). Hope you enjoy your new boat when you get it. -Paul

 

[L0keman]

So, any thoughts about question 2? Am I correct to think I can get all that fancy Ray Marine stuff like the sounder, speed, wind, sonar, etc and buy a 17" touch screen tablet for $900 and install Raytech RNS and and save the $10K instead of using a Raymarine screen?

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I love my autopilot. It will mindlessly hold a fixed course but does other things too. When single or short handing, with the push of a button (actually two buttons simultaneously) it will tack while I tend the sheets, with the GPS interface (which I have) it displays at the helm:

• Course over ground
• Speed over ground
• Bearing to waypoint, the destination I've programmed
• Distance to waypoint
• Rudder position

It will steer to a destination, making course corrections as necessary. I don't have the wind sensor but if I did there's a whole 'nother world there.

But the others are correct, it only steers where you tell it to. It doesn't care about depth, obstructions or traffic. In my case, sailing in and around one of the busiest shipping ports in the world, there are times when the pilot gets a rest.

 

[L0keman]

Since Katrina, it's common to go out and in without seeing another boat. I'm more concerned about depth and position as the average depth here is 3ft and if if you stray outside of the channel too far, you are screwed. I hope this image posts. Stuff like this is the norm here:

 

[Old Skool Neil]

With those depths I'm surprised multihulls aren't the norm.

 

[L0keman]

Mostly just shrimp boats and center console fishing boats. Very few sailboats around here on the water. Lot's in the marinas, though.

 

[kloudie1]

LOkeman, if you have the autopilot taking info from the plotter (will require a hard wire connection and they both have to talk the same NEMA phrases) then with WAAS enabled, and the channel marker waypoints accurately entered at the place you want the boat to go (drive to that spot and enter the waypoint marking that position, remember that the markers will wander in the current), the autopilot can drive the boat pretty much over those waypoints.. For long motoring, as when you might be running out of Biloxi (I reognize that place in your post, just north of Deer island) it can do a pretty good job but you still will have to monitor the position since the channel is so narrow around there. I have never tried to run that channel under autopilot, but as soon as you get to deeper water, you can just point and push the button and the auto will hold that course .. Once you are out of the shallows and headed to Ship or Horn Islands, Otto will relieve you from the tyranny of the helm, and generally drive a better course than the helmsman..

 

[DougM]

Don't take this as a putdown.
I would strongly suggest taking a safe boating course and a professionally run sailing school class. Many of your questions are appropriate.
I believe you would be much more confident in your own abilities, and be much more up to speed on the rules of the road.

As for your electronics questions. There is hardware and software out there that would interface to an inexpensive laptop, but the cost of some of the software would be prohibitive. The laptop might be a viable backup, but it isn't waterproof. Investigate thoroughly, and invest wisely.

Autopilots are great, not infallible. They have to work hard in choppy conditions and will eat up a lot of battery power. Following seas are probably the most difficult for an autopilot. Also they don't have eyes.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Without getting into the technical aspects I would suggest that it is a buyer's market. Many good C30's will be well equipped. Good canvas and electronics are expensive however you add them. Find boats already equipped and insist on sea trials. See the electronics working. Buy the boat, go sailing, and improve as time and funds permit.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Welcome to "big" boats LOKeman,
1. My Raymarine ST6000 has the ability to sail "to the wind angle" just like a wind vane pilot. It can do all the stuff Old School Neal said in post 9 too and Velocity made good, nav along a course of multiple way points but you have to acknowledge each turn so it is not automagical, you can change course by 1 or 10 degrees with a button push, you can tack or jibe with out touching the wheel (great for single handing).
It will not (not yet but the open source community is working on it) read a map to determine hazards ahead, it will not read AIS (again the open community is working on it) to avoid AIS equipped vessels and certainly can't avoid one with out AIS.
2. To get all the bells and whistles data you need a sensor for wind speed, wind angle, depth, boat speed through the water (knotmeter), boat speed over the ground (GPS speed) and location (GPS) and some way to display the data on a map. OpenCPN can do this (or will be in the future). The rub is the communications cabling. ALL manufactures offer NMEA interfaces but NMEA is a really inconvenient interface as it is a single talker, multiple listener protocol. So the depth meter is a talker and everybody else listens on that circuit, so to get data from some other sensor you need an completely separate NMEA circuit. The "full Monty" solution looks like spaghetti. Much better to use the manufactures "two way" protocol and then at some device output NMEA to a cheap computer. Course all you are saving at that point is the cost of a chart plotter which will have a GPS in it (offsetting the purchase of a gps).
3. Das es verboten, how will the poor manufacturers put their kids through collage if they don't lock you out of their competitors? Silly bunny! You can do some limited NMEA connections but it is a real pain figuring out how to and probably not worth the pain since many bundle their sensor packages. Focus on using the GPS NMEA out circuit as the feed to the computer. Use the GPS manufactures protocol to connect all the sensors/autopilot.

As a neophyte I'd go to the Raymarine site and spend some time looking at prices. Ray has the complete line of everything so you get a feel for what can be done.

Don't forget to consider GPS to VHF and VHF to AIS connections.

 

[L0keman]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info. I don't remember all the names to who said what, but I do plan on taking the USCG captain's course. But I know they will not teach me how to use an auto pilot or choose a navigation setup for my boat. Also, one of the things aboit buying a boat that is set up with electronics already is the price.i can find the same two boats with different electronics and the price will vary a ton. So that is whynI am asking these questions, to see if it's worth the extra money to me.there are 4 of these boats for sale right now on a single site for less than 10k, but then the ones with electronics are going for 20-40k. So, for me, I am leaning more towards getting one with no electronics and adding what I want. I can't bring myself to spend 6k on a boat and then put 30k of electronics on it.

 

[Old Skool Neil]

I think you'll find the cost is pretty much a wash whether you buy a boat already outfitted or outfit it yourself. I also appreciate your concern about overspending on a lesser equipped boat.

Here are two more things to consider. If outfitting yourself, what will he boat's value be when you're done? If you expect investing $10K in electronics will enhance the boat's value $10K you'll be sorely disappointed. Also, consider that the higher cost of a well equipped boat can be fully financed (if you choose to finance) where outfitting it yourself is an out-of-pocket adventure.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If you're not aware of this resource yet, it's a good starter: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...51&catalogId=10001&page=West-Advisor-Articles

There have been a whole passel of books written about the subjects you're asking about. Wander into a West Marine store or look online.

 

[dkdoyle]

Lots of good advice given here. You really need to consider what type of sailing you are doing. Because of the tight boundries on depth i would start with a depth sounder and a gps. You dob't need top of the line. The depth sounder is extra confirmation when you are not sure od the markers. The gps is very useful since it plots a track. You can follow it back home. Since i sail single handed i do use an auto pilot so can go on deck and not be stuck behind the wheel. You always should keep a lookout. This allows me to keep a course while i can fiddle with sails to get the best performance. I do have navionics on an iphone that i use as a backup gps and sometimes just for ease of use. I understand the navionics is being integrated to the raytheon. If you want offshore the monitor windvane is the way to go. Bottom line is don't go all out until you know what you need and how much power you want to draw.