Looking at boats this weekend...

Tim R. · Feb 2, 2007

Broker is likely to have one.

nm

Stu Jackson · Feb 2, 2007

Keep it short

We bought our boat with a handwritten: I (we) agree to purchase XXX hull # year for $xx,000, from ______, subject to survey and sea trials. Attached deposit is in the amount of $y,000.Both of you sign and off ya go!

Seattle Scott · Feb 2, 2007

Brian, get an offer form from the broker

and take it home and edit the hell out of it. Cross out "subject to satisfactory survey" insert "subject to buyers invetigation for condtion, to buyer's sole satisfaction, within 20 days of mutual acceptance, including haul out at buyer's expense and sea trial with winds at least Xknts. Earnest money of $2,000 (forget the 5% the broker's form will say)paid within 48 hours of sellers acceptance, refunded within 48 hours of condition unsatisfactory to Buyer" " All objects on boat included in sale, unless specifically excluded"Shadow the surveyor when boat being inspected. You can do an in water survey, and if a deal killer is found then no cost of haul out. Do a sea trial or test sail first, may find sails are shot or alternator not charging or engine vibrates too much, such that you renegociate before spending money of survey. Bring some friend/spouse along and instruct them not to say one nice thing about the boat with their job being to operate everything on the boat, all lights, interior and nav, battary charger, radio, sterio, radar, fresh water pump, water heater, manual and electirc bilge pump, stove reffer, all instruments, the list goes on. HAVE FUN

Scott · Feb 2, 2007

With all due respect, Fred ...

If your strategy worked for you, that's fine ... but ... that sounds like the dumbest strategy I ever heard of.Are you saying that if you were shopping for a boat, you could find 10 boats that would have equal appeal to you and the way to make your selection would be based on the one that could be bought for a bargain?Furthermore, if you offered half price on all 10 boats, wouldn't you simply have identified the 2 that are worth only half the price that they were listed at? That doesn't sound very promising ... that sounds like a problem. How do you know they are even worth half the price? Maybe the seller is thanking his lucky stars that he found some boob who thinks he is buying a bargain?

mortyd · Feb 2, 2007

two boats

guys, bargain away, but when we first saw our boat and were overwhelmed by the apparently wonderful condition she was in, we made an offer, at the asking price, dependent on sea trial and survey. we did the sea trial then and there, and while were on the water somebody who had seen the boat the day before came in with a check for three thousand more than we had just nailed down. i believe really good boats go very fast. if you don't, bargain away.

Waffle · Feb 2, 2007

Time Question 1995 on

I don't like them as much. The Hunter 28 became the Hunter 280. The model change from year to year but I am not impress with the late 1990 boats. I would theink that is one of the reason for the Mid 2000 redesign of all models. But I am an engineer, what do I know?

Don · Feb 2, 2007

What do you want to do with it

The most omportant thing is what type of sailing you will be doing. The Hunter 34 is a great coatal cruiser and sounds like good value for the $. All of the boats are fairly old and will need some work. As for electronics I would put very little valus on those unless they are almost new. I would put value on new sails, dodgers and interior updates. Compare how the boats sail and think about the normal conditions you sail in. A lots of heavier boats motor in all but a gale because they are slow. I don't know the other boats but again the Hunter will be OK in light air. Good Luck

NautiDuck · Feb 2, 2007

Scott of Lake Hopatcong

I think you missed Fred's point. If you go in to buy go in low. The worst that can happen is the seller says no. The seller is not your buddy. Your objective is to get the boat for as little $ as possible. I lowballed the boat we bought last fall. The owner had it sitting out of water for a year. He wanted it gone and I got a great deal. He was happy to see it go.Fred sounds like someone to whom a boat is a commodity, not a relationship. If you fall in love with a particular boat you may as well just hand the seller your checkbook and have him fill it out.I don't completely agree with Fred but calling his strategy dumb seems a bit harsh to me.

Chuck · Feb 2, 2007

Sellers

Just remember all you boat owners with the bid cheap advice, you are potential sellers! Could your advice come back to bite you in the *ss some day? Or did you end up with such crap that you expect to give it away in the end? Good luck.

NautiDuck · Feb 2, 2007

It's business

No, I did not end up with a cheap boat and I do not expect it to turn into junk. I just bought a new car and I lowballed that too. I ended up with the car for a couple of thousand less than some others paid for the exact same vehicle.A boat is worth what someone will pay for it. If the seller doesn't like the bid then he will say no. I have a boat for sale right now. I know what I want out of it. If someone comes in way low I'll just say no. I wont be insulted. If someone comes in low but within reason then we'll talk. It's business. No one is compelled to buy or sell.If you like to pay too much, and it makes you feel that the product is the better for it, then go ahead and pay too much. It's your money.

Scott21120 · Feb 3, 2007

Our buying experience

Our first boat - an Oday 25 was purchased for near market price because it was in good condition. We still ended up putting almost 1/2 the purchase price into upgrades. Our current boat was purchased for less than 1/2 the asking price - well below market value - because it has some wet core in the decks which is something we will need to deal with down the road. It is not a structural issue at this point, but we were able to get into a 34 foot boat when our budget more realistically fit a 30 foot boat. For us this was a great deal, because I am able to and enjoy doing a lot of the work myself. List prices are nearly ALWAYS negotiable, sometimes to a much larger degree than you would think. When we bought our current boat, I considered that even if we had the decks repaired professionally, I can still have less than the market value into the boat. When we were looking for an Oday 30 or 34, I had a couple of brokers tell me that I should buy a boat from a maker still in business, as if it were an indication of build quality. I am not convinced that because the front office could not keep the company solvent in tough economic times that it is necessarily indicitive of the quality of the boat.

Wanderer138 · Feb 3, 2007

Fred's strategy works

Sorry Scott, but I have to agree with Fred on this one, only because I've seen that strategy work several times. I have a couple of friends who between them have bought and sold half a dozen sailboats over the past 15 years using that approach. They offer about half the asking price, then walk away and wait for the phone to ring. They end up closing the deal for far less than the asking price and sometimes even LESS than their initial offer to the seller.Their philosophy is that asking price is based on perceived value (PV) which is what the seller thinks the boat is worth. PV is related to actual hard cash value (boat and equipment condition) but is also affected by circumstances, timing and emotion. For example, PV goes down in the northeast in the fall (most sellers want to avoid winter layup and storage) while the same happens in Florida in late spring (summers suck). Death, divorce sales and failing health reduce PV but good times and good memories (first love, kids, family, comfortably riding out a storm or two ar sea) keep PV up. If the seller's PV is high compared to most other people, then the boat is "overpriced". A boat that sits unsold for a while was probably overpriced to begin with. The longer it sits, the more likely the PV will fall ("Hmmm, I wonder what's wrong with THAT boat...").Getting the initial asking price then becomes a matter of luck, i.e., IF a buyer comes along whose PV of the boat is just as high as the seller's (or higher, like when you fall in love with a boat) AND he/she has the cash then the seller is likely to get the asking price (and the buyer will probably thinks he/she got a great deal). Boats typically sell faster on-line because they are exposed to a larger market where the probability of finding a buyer with a matching PV is higher.BTW, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with falling in love with a boat...just be prepared to pay the price. I know I was.

PeterH23 "Raven"

Fred · Feb 4, 2007

Lowball works, but you have to be ready

to walk away. You also have to know what you're looking at and know the market." You get what you pay for" is true, and it's bullshit. Depends who you are and how you approach the market.Many buyers will do best to get a good broker to find the boat they want and pay retail. Pay the money, go sailing. Some of us enjoy the chase. I make part of my living at it. I buy and resell one or two boats a year, and, with some notable exceptions, I make money on my boats. I've done it for 35 years.Sometimes a boat has been neglected for a couple of years after the previous owner did a lot of work, then died, had a health problem, or just lost interest. That was the case with the Catalina 38 I bought for half of asking with a new Genny, freshly rebuilt diesel, $14,000 paint job inside and out, lots of new life jackets and other good stuff. It had sat for two years after the owner died. The family wasn't interested in the boat. In Southern California where it was, it's an older boat and boats are expensive to own.I made my offer, they said no. I said thanks for your time. A month later the phone rang. It was the broker. They had decided to take my offer.I have fallen in love and paid asking price on occasion. I bought a chinese junk, solid teak, built in Hong Kong. I made a low offer. The owner said no, and I went home and dreamed about her for three days. Went back with cash in full.

r.w.landau · Feb 4, 2007

Must have been cc's boat.

Brain thanks for the news. Anything with boats is welcome this time of year.r.w.landau

tedsbeds · Feb 4, 2007

I Like Fred

I have been a boat aholic for many years and am now comming to terms with it. My wife understands and my hope is that like Fred I can make some of my living from this obsession. I have always bought cheap and tried to restore and sell. This obsession brought me to this page because again I am looking at 70's cheap sailboats a 27 Hunter and a 28 Irwin. For some of us the thrill is in the hunt and the resurection, and there is almost a let down when we're finsihed with the project, though I seldom ever finish completely. So Fred, if you have any other words of advice, I will listen intently.

Looking at boats this weekend...

Brian D

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Tim R.

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Stu Jackson

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Seattle Scott

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Scott

mortyd

Waffle

Don

Brian D

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NautiDuck

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Chuck

NautiDuck

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Scott21120

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Brian D

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Wanderer138

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Fred

Brian D

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r.w.landau

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Brian D

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tedsbeds

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